MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Picard (2020) Discussion > Not crazy about the idea of a "good"

Not crazy about the idea of a "good"

posted 3 years ago by kuatorises (7467)
12 replies | jump to latest

Borg queen. I have enjoyed the hell out of this season. I always love seeing more Borg and Q (the show could benefit from even more of him). It's better than season 1, which I enjoyed up until the last episode or 2.

The Borg are villains, end of story. They've killed MILLIONS. There's no coming back from that. I can respect the fact that Jurati appealed to her. We know Picard and Data did too. I don't even mind that Jurati appealed to and broke theough, unlike the other two. But good Borg? No, no, no. Only drones who are detatched from the Collective, not a Queen.

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[–] TylerAArse (2876) 3 years ago

Agreed. The only good Borg is a bad Borg. That's why we like them. The threat they represent. Now they wanna turn them into a buddy of the federation? I tell ya. This new ST sucks.

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[–] joi2049 (5562) 3 years ago

What about HUGH?

Have you forgotten him???

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Hugh#Capture

Enterprise-D for medical attention by Dr. Beverly Crusher under protest from Captain Picard. Upon arriving on the Enterprise-D, Hugh was placed in the brig and kept under guard at all times. He had trouble adapting to his new environment, having been cut off from the resources of the Collective for the first time in his life. Where there had been millions of voices in his head, there was now only his own. Dr. Crusher eventually nursed him back to health, and Chief Engineer Geordi La Forge found a way to nourish the drone similar to the regeneration alcoves on a Borg ship.

Captain Picard saw this as an opportunity to destroy the Borg once and for all. He ordered La Forge and Lieutenant Commander Data to devise a method to destroy the Collective through an implanted program or file in Hugh, much as Data had done to a Borg cube through Captain Picard (as Locutus) two years earlier. Dr. Crusher did not agree with this course of action, because they were talking about exterminating an entire race – even if it was the Borg.

You haven't seen VOYAGER, but if you had you'd also know CAPT. JANEWAY also REHABILITATES 7 of 9 the same way as the crew of TNG did HUGH.

Then Seven also rehabilitates 4 BORG KIDS, which also means this process has been happening for a very LONG TIME now in STAR TREK.

PLUS we also met DATA's daughter who was also doing the same thing to those on that BORG CUBE.

In other words, you are INCORRECT when you say "ALL BORG" are villians," because it's NOT the END of the STORY at all, and hasn't been ever since TNG aired.

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

You don't understand what I am saying. Hugh, Seven, and even Picard have all been rescued and separated from the Collective. That's not what I mean. They're no longer Borg. I'm not just talking about people who are actively still Borg, but their leader.

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[–] joi2049 (5562) 3 years ago

In this TIME LINE The BORG QUEEN (or leader) is suppose to be the LAST BORG that remained alive. But she's also been killed and now inhabits the body of AGNES.

So what's is she exactly??? A GHOST??? How is she able to inhabit the body of a HUMAN after she's been killed and destroyed???

Those are some of the questions that come to mind for me.

How does one EXORCISE her or get rid of her and keep her from inhabiting the body and mind of AGNES???

Will ADAM SOONG offer the BORG QUEEN a NEW BODY (like the one that PICARD has now) if she agrees to leave AGNES alone???

Will they trick her and kill her once her consciousness has been placed into another NEW BODY???

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

She assimilated Agnes. They are one entity now and probably that Borg from the future we saw in the first episode.

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[–] joi2049 (5562) 3 years ago

So isn't that similar to the way that a TRILL becomes a HOST BODY for the SYMBIONT??? Only in this case AGNES is the HOST BODY for the BORG QUEEN???

And in DISCOVERY they also created another BODY for one of the PERSONALITIES that was inside of the other HUMAN TRILL character, which could also indicate maybe ADAM SOONG might create another body for the BORG QUEEN (the same way as one was also created for PICARD)???

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

I'm not a Trill expert. I never watched DS9 regularly - though now that I have Paramount + I am considering watching that and Voyager - and I bailed on Discovery after a season.

I am starting to suspect the Borg Queen is immortal though. She can simply copy or assimilate herself like she did with Agnes.

I'm simply disappointed with her seemingly turning good. That's just not acceptable to me. She's evil. Killed MILLIONS. That's not forgivable.

I think Soong could pop up once more, but is just a secondary villain.

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[–] joi2049 (5562) 3 years ago

In the HOST episode of TNG (my favorite one) Beverly falls in love with a TRILL who dies and is then placed (temporarily) inside of the body of RIKER while waiting for the next HOST BODY to arrive.

Then Beverly has an affair with RIKER (who has her dead lover inside of him), but when the HOST BODY shows up, Beverly tells her that she's only HUMAN, and that all of the changes the TRILLS go through are too much for her to be able to handle.

So that's our first introduction to a TRILL.

In DS9 Worf marries one who dies, and then he has a difficult time dealing with the other HOST BODY who has his former wife inside of her.

So with the BORG QUEEN being inside of AGNES, one is also reminded of how the TRILL also have other personalities inside of them. Plus TYLER from DISCOVERY also had a KLINGON inside of him (due to the surgery that the other female KLINGON performed on him).

In VOYAGER there's also a TRANSPORTER accident that results in a VULCAN being FUSED together with another alien species.

And SPOCK is also a combination of 2 different SPECIES: VULCAN & HUMAN

And his sister was also a HYBRID BEING: BORN HUMAN/RAISED on VULCAN

These kind of combinations are intriguing.

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

I do remember that episode now that you mention it. PlutoTV has a TNG channel and plays the same episodes. I saw that one a few months ago.

I think the Borg Queen has always had a bit of a multiple personality thing going on. She assimilates millions. She communicates with the hive. She's probably an amalgam of many beings at this point, we're just seeing it for the first time.

As I said, I never saw much Voyager. I knew there was a queen in it. I always wondered if there is more than 1 queen. I think Picard answers that. She's probably the same one, but can change bodies (if damaged or dying). Might even have multiple copies of herself as backup.

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[–] joi2049 (5562) 3 years ago

This link indicates there is more than just one queen, but it also says they all share a personality:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Borg_Queen

I am the beginning, the end, the one who is many. I am the Borg."
– The Borg Queen, 2063 (Star Trek: First Contact)

The Borg Queen was the name given to the entity that existed within and served as a central nexus for the Borg Collective.

There were multiple Borg Queens, although they appeared to share a personality. (Star Trek: First Contact; VOY: "Dark Frontier", "Unimatrix Zero", "Unimatrix Zero, Part II", "Endgame")

With that in mind we could also say there was more than just one PICARD, but the newest PICARD also shares the same personality as the first PICARD.

This is what Seven of Nine says about the QUEEN:

"The Borg Queen has a kind of transtemporal awareness. It bridges into adjacent times, realities. They hear echoes of themselves, of— of each other." (PIC: "Penance")

And this is how her body is described:

"In accordance with the Borg pursuit of perfection, a blending of the organic and synthetic, very little of her original humanoid form remained. Her face and upper torso were organic while the rest of her body, including her skull and spinal cord, were synthetic. Because of her disembodiment she saw herself as the epitome of perfection."

"When her physical presence was not necessary her organic part resided above this chamber while her synthetic parts were stored below it, under the floor. If she desired to do so, both could be brought together, and in doing so, created a humanoid form for herself."

But AGNES clearly isn't able to do that with her body, which also seems to indicate she's still HUMAN and is not physically a BORG QUEEN.

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

"This link indicates there is more than just one queen, but it also says they all share a personality"

Honestly, this sounds like what I was just trying to explain. The body might get destroyed but her essence/personality - which certainly could be mad up of multiple people -never truly dies. You'd probably have to destroy every piece of Borg hardware to truly kill her.

Picard's human body is gone. There aren't two Picards.

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[–] joi2049 (5562) 3 years ago

If the QUEEN was once HUMAN (or is from a HUMANOID looking SPECIES) then her ORIGINAL BODY would also be gone (except for maybe the HEAD and neck area ... which would also be replaced as well when she is blown up with a BORG CUBE and then uses another head).

So in that sense her original body would also be GONE as well (just like the case is with PICARD).

It's also interesting how little we know about the QUEEN(s). After all these years you'd think we'd have had an episode where we explored more about her (especially when Seven and PICARD should also KNOW a lot about her due to having been a part of the HIVE that she controls).

But with less than 60 min left of this SEASON to go we probably also don't have enough TIME to discover very much more about her. Because they'll most likely be too busy keeping the FOCUS on PICARD, Q, and Renee's Mission to EUROPA (at least that's what the PREVIEW clip seems to indicate).

Just 3 more DAYS LEFT to go until the SEASON FINALE of PICARD and the START of the other NEWEST TREK SHOW called STRANGE NEW WORLDS !!!

🚀

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