God I hated that Tory overheard that convo in the finale - Cobra Kai (2018) Discussion

[–] Mustang (5449) 3 years ago

Going by how this show works this moment will make her drift towards Eagle Fang/Miyagi Do and probably make up with Sam as well.

She should have known anyway what really happened.

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[–] millsey72 (10383) 3 years ago

Nonsense. Tory will always be Cobra Kai and one of the series main villains

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[–] TerraFirma69 (2271) 3 years ago

Nah. She's been shown kindness by Daniel's wife and realizes CK are dirtbags that are not her friends. No way she's sticking around especially now that whatshisname is in charge either.

She will change sides, and maybe she and Sam will even become lovers.

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[–] Sandman81 (1509) 3 years ago

This show is definitely taking a page from pro wrestling, especially late 80's and early 90's. Which always included people turning face, no matter what they've in the past. Very common when a bad guy starts to become a fan favorite, and in many ways is a sympathetic character, and the good guys they are facing are becoming more and more unlikable.

I absolutely believe Tori will be a "good guy" by the end of next year. She'll split from Cobra Kai and join Johnny and Robbie with whatever they do or will go to Myagi. Chozen may take her in and feel a kinship with her, since he was also a dastardly villain who straightened out his life and sought redemption.

Then in the ultimate twist, Daniel and Sam are so livid at Chozen for letting Tori in, that they leave Myagi Dojo, and the LaRusso's marriage falls apart since Amanda has been supporting Tori. They vow revenge and want to take Myagi Dojo back, so they do the unthinkable... they make a deal with Terry Silver.

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[–] Mustang (5449) 3 years ago

I do like that aspect of the show. No one is totally good or evil. Good people can do stupid/bad things, the bad guys can be heroes etc.

Ha ha yeah that could be possible that Daniel's marriage suffers as would his relationship with Sam if he takes Tori onboard. Sam then goes to Eagle Fang or Cobra Kai.

The same rinse and repeat stuff but it's still fun.

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[–] millsey72 (10383) 3 years ago

Kreese and Silver are totally evil by the way

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8761) 3 years ago

Have you watched all of S4 yet?

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[–] millsey72 (10383) 2 years ago

Yes and hopefully Kreese remains in jail for the entirety of season 5

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[–] ExTechOp (2770) 3 years ago

I think Silver's totally evil; he just had it suppressed. Everyone else is redeemable, so it's kind of nice to see one character be a reliable villain.

As for Tori going Miyagi-Do, tough beans for Sam. Both the Lorusso kids are acting like entitled brats. Admittedly, Sam's got a legitimate beef with Tori, but she keeps picking at that scab. Very un-Miyagi yet very much a Lorusso.

The constant backstories and consequent reversals in this show really keep it interesting to me. It helps that they were able to assemble such a talented group of young actors for their respective roles. Based on their interviews, they all appear to really get along with each other, which I think helps it all feel "real."

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[–] millsey72 (10383) 3 years ago

Its not pro wrestling. The tournament matches are not scripted and the results are not pre determined like in pro wrestling. Tori will always be Cobra Kai and a villain

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8761) 3 years ago

The whole show is scripted.

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[–] millsey72 (10383) 3 years ago

Well obviously. However karate tournament matches don't have pre determined results like in pro wrestling. If you are a little kid, I am sorry if I ruined the WWE for you

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8761) 3 years ago

I believe the person you were replying to wasn't talking about the fights so much as the way the characters are written and the shifts they make between being "good guys" and "bad guys." Or to use pro-wrestling terminology, there are a lot of "heel turns" and "face turns."

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[–] millsey72 (10383) 2 years ago

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[–] chrcoluk (67) 3 years ago

This is the one big flaw for me in the show, there is too much switching sides.

I be very surprised if she doesnt drift over in s5.

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[–] Mustang (5449) 3 years ago

Except for Hawk they tend to switch sides for very fickle reasons too. Usually because something doesn't go their way or someone they like has rejected them.

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[–] hyljason (147) 2 years ago

What was it that she should have known? That Terry Silver had the fight fixed? That's insane nobody including the viewers anticipated that.

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[–] Mustang (5449) 2 years ago

What about simply seeing that he is not a good guy? Then again Tori is a rather confused soul.

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[–] PaladinNJ (21528) 3 years ago

This is her chance to have a win. And take care of Silver once and for all.

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Tory still beat Sam clean, she just wasn't DQ'd for that elbow. Everything else she did was legit. She beat Sam.

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[–] AP (5288) 3 years ago

Sam scored a point but the ref claimed she was out of bounds, which Daniel and Johnny disputed. That was what the ref got paid for.

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[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

Also the ref should have deducted a point for Tory for the elbow to Sams eye, accidental or not.

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

I don't remember it being super clear it was actually the wrong call. I didn't just assume it was wrong because Daniel and Johnny thought it was, but I guess we are supposed to doubt everything the ref did? Even the wins that benefited Daniel?? It's not like he stopped his students from winning everything. The elbow was a clear foul. The out of bounds happened so fast, I didn't know if the ref was right or wrong.

Plus, even though ended up with Silver paying the ref off, the "won't let this end on a DQ comment" isn't an outlandish statement. No ref wants that kidd of heat.

The ref was in on it felt tacke on to be honest.

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[–] AP (5288) 3 years ago

“I don't remember it being super clear it was actually the wrong call. I didn't just assume it was wrong because Daniel and Johnny thought it was, but I guess we are supposed to doubt everything the ref did?.”

It’s called foreshadowing.

“Even the wins that benefited Daniel??”

A ref can only do so much. If Daniel’s kids are clearly outperforming Cobra Kai like when Eli easily beat Kyler, there’s nothing he can do without making things obvious. Considering the CK kids had four fighters in the finals and only needed to earn a single point, the odds were already in their favor so the ref didn’t need to do much.

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Did you see her feet out of bounds? Because we see Tory's elbow. There's definitive proof she did it. But I don't remember seeing anyone's feet, but I guess I'll play along.

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[–] NoEasyBuckets (350) 3 years ago

You're talking about this like it was a real sporting event and you're a big fan of Tory. Yes she stepped out of bounds and the reactions by Sam and the others show that she got away with it.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8761) 3 years ago

The poster is obviously talking about the universe that the show exists in. The question is: Within that universe and it's rules, was Sam's strike legal or not?

I am pretty sure it was legal. Seemed obvious, actually.

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[–] AP (5288) 3 years ago

There was a close up of her foot after the call. It is not clear if the strike happened before or after she stepped out though. There was ambiguity about it which was clarified at the end of the episode.

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[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

The elbow was a clear foul.

And should have resulted not in a DQ but a point deduction for Tory. The fact that the referee didn't act on it wasn't simply bad refereeing, it didn't adhere to the rules. As for the out of bounds, a similar thing happened in an earlier match and was easily spotted so this one seems to have been ignored.
Now these things can and do happen in competitions but here we actually have confirmation that the referee did it deliberately.

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

It was also completely unintentional.

Do you watch much sports? A ref will do everything in their power to avoid controlling the outcome of a championship game/match. No ref wants to deal with that shit. He wouldn't have DQ'd Sam either.

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[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

It was also completely unintentional.

Yes I know. But it is still a foul.

Do you watch much sports?

Yes.

A ref will do everything in their power to avoid controlling the outcome of a championship game/match.

True, but the rules still need to be applied in such situations.

No ref wants to deal with that shit.

It goes with the territory.

He wouldn't have DQ'd Sam either.

You need to re-read my post. I said he wouldn't have DQ'd Tory, but should have deducted a point.

You might think this the ramblings of another armchair expert who favours one fighter over another, and tbh seeing as you don't know me, that's fair enough. But in reality I am a qualified Karate Kumite and Kata referee and judge who has refereed at national championships since 2002. So trust me on that one.

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[–] Sandman81 (1509) 3 years ago

In the '84 final Johnny drops a deliberate elbow into Daniels bad knee, and he is only given a warning for illegal contact.

It may be a judgement call by the referee whether to deduct a point or not. Tori's elbow was obviously unintentional and did not affect Samantha's ability to continue. Johnny's was very intentional and done with malicious intent, and probably should have ended Daniel's ability to compete.

Johnny is not the person who should be complaining about deducting points.

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[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

In the '84 final Johnny drops a deliberate elbow into Daniels bad knee, and he is only given a warning for illegal contact.

Yes, that's true. Whereas Bobby was DQ'd, Johny was not. Johnnys was definitely intentional but we only know Bobbys was as we see him given the instruction to take Daniel out by Kreese. Again it is a mistake by the referee, but the difference in that fight is the ref wasn't bought.

Tori's elbow was obviously unintentional

If someone elbows somebody like Tory did Sam and it is deemed unintentional it is still a point deduction. If it was deemed intentional then it is a disqualification.
There are times when fighters have been injured accidentally and have been unable to carry on. In these cases a point is deducted from the offender, but if their opponent cannot carry on then the person who caused said (accidental) injury is declared the winner because the other person has had to forfeit through being unable to continue.

The point being though, is that either way you look at it, the rules are clear and the referee should have applied them.

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[–] WandererFromYs (2330) 3 years ago

That’s incorrect. If a fighter is hit with an illegal blow and can’t continue, it usually results in a no contest. Disqualifications only happen if it’s done repeatedly, or if it’s particularly egregious.

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[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

That’s incorrect. If a fighter is hit with an illegal blow and can’t continue, it usually results in a no contest.

Not in Karate competitions

Disqualifications only happen if it’s done repeatedly, or if it’s particularly egregious.

Wrong. A competitor can be DQ'd immediately for a number of reasons.

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[–] ExTechOp (2770) 3 years ago

That's in real life.

I know a guy who got DQ'd in his first round, ever, because he made contact with a thumbs-up fist. Apparently, the fist must complete a full rotation BEFORE you can contact your opponent.

Fair enough, too, since he dropped his opponent with that blow (got him right in the solar plexus).

Point being, real life karate matches have all kinds of rules, very strictly enforced, because of the serious injuries that can occur.

"Cobra Kai" takes place in a universe where an enemy dojo can trash your house without police getting involved. The All-Valley has more in common with the (apparently also fictional) Kumite competition in Van Damme's "Bloodsport."

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[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

I know a guy who got DQ'd in his first round, ever, because he made contact with a thumbs-up fist. Apparently, the fist must complete a full rotation BEFORE you can contact your opponent.

Yes and if you think about that, then you would say that the referee seen that and did his job. The fighter would have no complaint because he would be aware of it.

Fair enough, too, since he dropped his opponent with that blow (got him right in the solar plexus).

I mean that is just the limit of contact allowed in that competition. Back in the days I competed I broke a guys ribs (semi contact rules) and he was carried off on a stretcher. Who do you think won the fight? Me, that's who! Contact has been severely reduced over the years to light touch and rightly so. But the Cobra Kai series does allow a bit more than usual. We as the audience accept it but know there is a limit and a line that cannot be crossed without penalty.

"Cobra Kai" takes place in a universe where an enemy dojo can trash your house without police getting involved.

But the rules they use are still rules that they themselves are supposed to adhere to which is the point that is being made. (ie) out of bounds or strikes (accidental or otherwise) with the elbow to the face which are supposed to either be void or incur penalties. So the only thing we have to compare them to are real life scenarios in Karate competitions and what the outcome of said scenarios would be if the rules are followed by the referee when these infractions occur..

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[–] hyljason (147) 2 years ago

True I didn't see it coming either and I think the writers did it correctly because obviously the ref the wrath cannot overdo it without looking suspicious.

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[–] ExTechOp (2770) 3 years ago

I think she did win.

The ref's calls were pro-Cobra but, absent the payoff, legitimate within the universe of this show.

Having her be the whistleblower (if they go that route) helps redeem her but I don't think it lessens her win against Sam.

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[–] wearsalan (5554) 3 years ago

I think she did win.

She did. Tory maybe should have lost a point but I think either way she would have pulled it back and still won.

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[–] Boricanator (1443) 3 years ago

I like the part because it makes it clear what Cobra Kai is. A corrupt organization that plays dirty. They either play dirty in combat or behind combat.

And they exploit vulnerable young children like her.

Now she knows the truth.

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