MovieChat Forums > Travelers (2016) Discussion > How does repackaged Marcy remembers the ...

How does repackaged Marcy remembers the collapse of shelter 41

posted 8 years ago by Nesjamag
22 replies | jump to latest

027/Grace stated in epi 11 that she had to work with the material available to her, which was Marcy in her future condition, prior to being sent back.
Grace states she did not have access to Marcy's memories of the 21st century. This implies that the information she used was future Marcy prior to being sent back in Grace's future.

Grace herself comes from a future with the faction and where shelter 41 did not collapse. Repackaged Marcy should originate from this future as well. But repackaged Marcy in epi 12 remembers the collapse.

How can this seeming contradiction be explained?

[–] rareandfirsts 8 years ago

I took it that Marci was the same Marci without the 21st century memories only. Even though the new reality didn't include the collapse, Marci's reality remained intact, ergo, she remembers her past as it was for her including the collapse.

The Dude abides.

[–] gswan 8 years ago

I took it that Marci was the same Marci without the 21st century memories only. Even though the new reality didn't include the collapse, Marci's reality remained intact, ergo, she remembers her past as it was for her including the collapse.

I think you are overlooking OP's main point.

The show is based on a single threaded model of time. When someone monkeys with the past, the future is changed. All the historical records now reflect the new history. The future contains no record of earlier histories.

Are you with me so far.

The Traveler who comes from a future where shelter 41 did not collapse has to work with a recording of Marcy from that future. The changing of all historical records to reflect the changes that brought about the new, current future change the records of Marci's memories too.

[–] JDLail 8 years ago

1) It seems clear to me that future Marcy is dead. So there was no possible return to the source. In any case the OP is right in that Future Marcy after E6 would not have been aware of the collapse.

2) That means either there was a copy of Future Marcy as of the original download in the present day or else that Grace could identify those memories that were present at the original download and move them around but not
those created since. Weird but I think the latter is what they are going with.

[–] jonnypenn84 8 years ago

It was a reset.

[–] Warrior_Poet 8 years ago

There is one possible explanation... OOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!!!!

Actually, something did occur to me when contemplating this during episode 12. I mentioned it in another post (I’ll link below), but will summarize it here. Maybe when a Traveler’s cognitive image is transferred it’s stored in a state that breaks with causality (like the Travelers themselves are--see my link below), maintaining the temporal state it was in at the time of the “backup” or “capture” of the image. Furthermore, perhaps this is also how they keep records of previous event strings/timeline fragment variances. Yeah, let's go with that.

However, a significant change to that past that would prevent that image from ever being captured would of course obliterate or alter it. The future event of taking the backup would still need to be the same and occur at the same time. If something in the past changed it enough, the memories would differ. In other words, the event of capturing the image must be shared between both versions of the timeline. Whatever happened in the past can’t have changed it to the extent that it would not occur under the same circumstances.

That’s one possible explanation I can come up with, at any rate. Otherwise, it’s a big oops.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5651844/board/inline/263993814?d=264613986&p=1#264613986
____________
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.

[–] fp_ff_fp 8 years ago

Good catch but it was explained - Grace used the same consciousness ("repackaged") and uploaded it to different areas of the brain.

So somehow, Marcy's consciousness was transferred into the computer or stored or sent somewhere along with instructions/message from 21st century Grace which future Grace re-used instead of packaging future-Marcy new consciousness back..

What this does mean now, is that future Marcy is still alive in the future century since that consciousness was not used (else she'd think too there was no collapse of Shelter 41). And there are 2 Marcy's now - Future Marcy of altered timeline whose consciousness was not sent back and our Marcy whose consciousness went from future century to 21st century and back to future century ("repackaged") and back to 21st century Marcy to diff area of the brain.

[–] Sluggr-3 8 years ago

Thinking about this has clearly damaged a part of my brain. :(

My impression is that there was some debate as to whether shelter 41 had in fact collapsed. My take-home from one viewing is that the faction "reported" that shelter 41 had collapsed and was using it as their base of operations, ie, off the grid. A re-watch might reveal some "facts" not in evidence. Those last 3 minutes are going to take about 6 months to sort out, IMHO.

My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2

[–] pauli_gomez 8 years ago

No. Shelter 41 collapsed. The travelers came back in time and change the present. It changed the future. For instance, Helios whatever didn't harm Earth. Also, shelter 41 didn't collapse but the travelers still remember an alternate timeline where it had indeed collapsed.

[–] Warrior_Poet 8 years ago

But where was this "same consciousness" stored and repackaged from? That's where the issue comes in. Since diverting the meteor produced a change that resulted in Shelter 41 not collapsing and The Faction showing up, the Marcy package would know about the faction instead of the collapse. They wouldn't have both versions; the "previous" version would be irrevocably altered with the new events of the adjusted timeline. It would change what the image of her brain entailed because that's now what happened. Or are you saying maybe her image was stored on a computer in the 21st century when it was first "beamed" to the past? The only other way around it is if as I suggest in another post their method of storing an image somehow involves maintaining the temporal state of that moment, and therefore doesn't change when the past changes unless the past changes in a way that alters the event of capturing that backup image. Although that's kind of a stretch. Either that or when someone is beamed to the past a backup is stored "offsite" somewhere.
____________
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.

[–] fp_ff_fp 8 years ago

Not explained but if I were to surmise and theorize one way -

think of it like a LiveCD (esp in Linux). Possibly Marcy's original consciousness is still present packaged up in a tiny part of her brain (like the ramdisk+initial kernel), stored highly compressed in its original form.

Just like a kernel bootstrapping itself, it unpacks and takes over the rest of the brain ("consciousness") with this master copy.

Now, presumably there's a sequence of say eye movements and other inputs to the brain which causes the brain to "reboot" ("reset" as she called it) and re-bootstrap with this original copy of Marcy brain. This is likely what Grace programmed into the computer and had Marcy watch it, triggering this reboot in her brain. Graceful shutdown, reboot with the original package again.

This perfectly can explain how/why it worked.

(Alternately, it sends somehow a signal to future century Grace with her encoded/signed message to use this consciousness instead of future Marcy one although now with my above theory, makes lesser value.)

[–] Warrior_Poet 8 years ago

That is a superb idea. I really like that. Very well done! Just wish I'd thought of it.
____________
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.

[–] Sluggr-3 8 years ago

It might be a case where the consciousnesses are held in RAM for a short period of time before being deleted to make room for the next transfer, hence an explanation for Bloom 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 ... In Marcy's case, it may have become apparent to the future that they'd made a mistake with her transfer to a damaged host. Grace was clearly aware of this when she showed up, even before talking the Marcie. So in Marcie's case, they made a "CD" of her consciousness at the time of transfer for a future re-boot. This is likely not standard protocol, perhaps because each transfer requires a significant chunk of resources, and most are just wiped like we do with our browsing cache at the end of a session. So the reboot as a version of marcie dated from when she was originally send, and was therefore in the past both in the present and the future (I think that makes sense).

My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2

[–] cvsandstuff 8 years ago

Because the psyche collecting process is tailored to the state of the persons mind. I.e. you have to configure it to pluck out the "contents" of the storage areas of a mind.

During the reboot procedure the process ran on 21st century's Grace's mind and returned a copy of THAT mind to the her 21st century body BUT the program that ran was only capable of picking out the parts of her consciousness that it had been configured to handle and that configuration was based on her future mind.

In other words the mind transfer mold had been bootstrapped using a non-current version of her mind. This also implies that Travelers lose the memories directly prior to their transfer to the past.

So

Process P
Mind.Future MF
Mind.Past MP
Configuration C

P runs on the basis of C to create a packaged MF which overwrites MP.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] McQualude 8 years ago

The bigger plot hole is that a new mind doesn't fix the physical damage, didn't the first time, wouldn't the 2nd time.

|Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

[–] Sluggr-3 8 years ago

Think of it as loading a program into a partition with bad sectors the first time, and the second time loading the program into a different partition without defects.

My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2

[–] Fox012 8 years ago

Actually on the first Arrival the consciousness of the traveler that was taking over Marcy was to big for the underdeveloped brain of the host which the director was unaware due to misleading intel (the facebook profile) resulting the already degenerating brain degenerate even faster.. what grace did in ep 11 was stripping the consciousness of marcy of "grey matter" like Memories she gathered since she arrived so the consciousness fits into non damaged part of the brain with the result that the brain now degenerates less fast as it did before yet it still degenerates so that Marcy 2.0 will likely face the same fate that Marcy 1.0 did anytime soon..