MovieChat Forums > Moana (2016) Discussion > Whats wrong with romance?

Whats wrong with romance?


Todays films portray women as all powerful without love. Thats not realistic at all. Women need a man in their lives just like how men need women in their lives. Women and men compliment each other instead of women being all powerful and men being submissive.

Twilight and 50 shades of grey are perfect. The men came off initally as rude but the women protagonists helped tamed them with love.

So sick of films like moana and force awakens where women are powerful. Thats not feminism. Thats laughable.

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So, Whoooaaa3, bearing everything that's just been said here in mind, how did you like the ending of Goldie Hawn's PRIVATE BENJAMIN?

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To teach young girls they don't need a man to find happiness.
A trend Disney's been doing in the rectification of the vintage fairytale.

Idk cause some of those island boys were daddy!

Emma Frost's homecoming countdown - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmw6EaTfX8g







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It sounds TV parenting at its finest, outside Brave and mother/sister distorted relationship, it just made biased movies. Kids aren't so dumb to be forged like that, and it's a sad heartless ideology to asexualize them like that.

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It sounds TV parenting at its finest, outside Brave and mother/sister distorted relationship, it just made biased movies. Kids aren't so dumb to be forged like that, and it's a sad heartless ideology to asexualize them like that.
Not really. This isn't the whole story of the character's life, just one chapter. If the hero were a young male, would you object that he didn't have a love interest?

I'm finding this discussion without merit.

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Oh, thanks, OK, fine, I just realize now I'm totally dumb to haven't sued Disney to make a decent Disney sequel of BatB 20 years ago as the Frozen fans did. Since a decade, I watch rising these feminist drones on YT moaning Belle didn't follow a business way, despite her life isn't over with her presumed or official wedding following the canon of kids books.

I'm finding this discussion without merit.
Me too, I never wished to play that game. Feminists should better protect women fundamental rights now, but it's more easy to troll the Disneyverse than fight a bunch of vindictive armed reactionists.

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..I just realize now I'm totally dumb to haven't sued Disney to make a decent Disney sequel of BatB 20 years ago as the Frozen fans did.
Wow? Really? I hadn't heard since I don't follow this stuff very closely. It's rather irritating and stupid. If people don't like how a story is going, they have choices - they can watch something else or write their own material. They don't own franchises - not this, not Ghostbusters - none of it! I do find some fans incredibly irritating and immature. No one owes them anything.

Feminists should better protect women fundamental rights now, but it's more easy to troll the Disneyverse than fight a bunch of vindictive armed reactionists.
I'm with you. Trolling Disney is not what feminism is about. Sounds like some extremists have hijacked the term.

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Fine. Merry Christmas to you, Ohnooos.

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To you as well, Dave. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. :)

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@OhNooos: "If the hero were a young male, would you object that he didn't have a love interest?"

Pip certainly didn't get a happy ending in the original version of Dickens' GREAT EXPECTATIONS. Victorian audiences hated that he didn't get the girl and pressured Dickens into changing the unhappy ending!

Just saying.

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I hear you, Cary, I just wonder how comparable that really is. The audience was Victorian and the story was for a different market than this one. What I'm seeing is a double standard where females are judged in terms of their relationships with a significant male and where I see mostly men object to stories with females who are heroic.

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Quite comparable. PRETTY WOMAN had a similarly unhappy ending when its script was originally written! But, preview audiences hated that Richard Gere and Julia Roberts didn't get together. So, the ending had to be re-shot to the one that was finally seen by nation-wide audiences. And, in my permanent opinion, rightly so!

Frankly, if I want to see an unhappy ending, all I have to do is stay home and watch the first five minutes of the 6PM News.

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The whole point of Pretty Woman was that the two would end up together. Still a different audience intended than the one for children's animation.

Frankly, if I want to see an unhappy ending, all I have to do is stay home and watch the first five minutes of the 6PM News.
Haha! That's a great line!

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Thank you.

But, Disney evidently has a much older audience in mind for their upcoming live-action remake of B&TB. Basically, the same demographic that first saw PRETTY WOMAN! And if Belle were _not_ to wind up with the Beast, at the end of that remake, you'd definitely get a backlash of objection from that demographic.

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I'd agree with that. Beauty and the Beast is a love story and always has been. It's also a very old folk tale.

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I'd agree with that. Beauty and the Beast is a love story and always has been. It's also a very old folk tale.

An old tale but definitely not about love. It's about a person's beauty not being skin deep.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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True, Beauty has to look past the ugliness of the Beast to see his inner beauty and then he is freed. Love is a part of it.

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Postrscript: "The whole point of Pretty Woman is that the two would end up together."

Again, not as originally written. Only in the studio-compelled rewrite.

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Really? I didn't know! Backstories to how movie stories come to be are interesting. I think it was a good call on the part of the studio, although it would have been a bit more realistic if it had been done that way. I'm more a fan of idealism than realism, however.

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Me, too, as a general rule. It's why I loved the Disney ret-con of HOND's traditional ending.

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HOND? What's that?

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HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME, of course. :-)

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The Princess and the Frog
Tangled
Frozen

All had romances.

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Yeah, but Eugene and Kristoff were more empathetic male characters than Naveen.

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Is.... Is this satire?

I thought it had to be after your 50 shades and twilight comment, but your last sentence seemed like you actually believe what you wrote.

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The 50 Shades and Twilight comment was stupid, I'll grant you that. There nothing perfect or remotely good in those movies.

BUT, the OP is making a good point, none the less. These movies are convincing young girls that romance is dead. That self-fulfillment is the only way to true happiness. When they grow up, how can they actually be in good, healthy, working relationships when all they care about is what makes them happy...? And all boys see is how little their being recognized and how little they matter. Maybe that's the whole scheme. Maybe these feminists and manginas behind these messages and agendas want to turn boys into doormats without any self-respect and girls into worker bees who care more about their phones than their family (which is already happening).

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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I'm not even going to respond to how stupid your comment was

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-You have 14 other Princess movies and a slew of animated and live actions movies that have romances. Heaven forbid a few movies show it's OK that one can be happy WITHOUT romance.

-You're defending Passengers. You have no long to stand on when it comes to "good, healthy, working relationships".

-Maui is a kickass demigod who takes Moana under his wing. In fact, that's been part of the Disney Princess formula since Tangled, pairing the woman with someone more experienced to teach her about the world. If you think this is being a doormat, well then you're an idiot.

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-You're defending Passengers. You have no long to stand on when it comes to "good, healthy, working relationships".

Jesus Christ. I've already acknowledged that the relationship in Passengers did not have a healthy beginning. BUT nothing that happened to any character in that movie was healthy. I just have forgiveness for the actions of men, especially in desperate situations, unlike self-abusive manginas like yourself.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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You think my support of feminism is unhealthy because it's an act of desperation yet here you are saying I'm self-abusive. So much for forgiving the actions of men in desperate situations.

I notice you skipped over my other points.

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I actually think there's a point to this post. Not regarding Moana especifically at all, but it does seem like less and less people want to invest in relationships.

People are leaning towards 'you have to love yourself' so much these days and that makes them less willing to put in the work towards anyone else. The problem is that relationships require sacrifice, commitment and at least some level of attachment/dependency to work and if everyone is more focused on themselves and in feeling like they don't need anyone, of course they won't last.

Again, that's not a problem with Moana at all. Just pointing out that I see the recent general trend the poster is talking about.



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On the other hand, there is much to be said about having worked on the self to the point where the individual has confidence in themselves, feels capable of facing most of life's struggles, is matured, aware of what they like and need before joining with another. When someone has focused on themselves first, when they do approach romance, they do it as an adult and an equal partner which is more likely to result in a healthy, long-lasting, and satisfying relationship.

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Oh, sure.

It's a tricky balance. On one hand, as you said, to work on yourself and figure out what you want can be great. On the other being self-sufficient to the point where a relationship feels pointless is understandably not most people's idea of love nor should it be.

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Agreed. Balance is the key.

Also, there are some people who never find romance in their lifetimes, but they still lead satisfying lives that include connections to other people in non-romantic capacities. While I love the idea of everyone finding their happy other, I need to acknowledge with compassion and understanding those that it doesn't happen for and would like them to feel their lives are no less than those who are matched up with others.

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BUT a lot of women in the real world only do what's easiest and that's to blame men for their problems. So, we have a lot of emotionally abusive female partners, pushing their male partners to get abusive in other ways. Look at my girlfriends as of late.

One refused to acknowledge any of the sacrifices I made, trying to make her happy, giving her the excuse to constantly demand more and more of me. This happens a lot in real relationships. Did she ever acknowledge what I want? NO!

The other refused to let me do things for her and she refused to do anything for me. Sometimes, she wouldn't even talk to me for extended periods and just plain expected me to still be there for her when she did contact me.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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If you're looking for relationship advice I think you're on the wrong website.

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Look at my girlfriends as of late.
No offence meant, Luke, but this isn't the place for therapy.

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No offence meant, Luke, but this isn't the place for therapy.


He and Rascal both need therapy.

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I actually have hope for Luke. I hope he can figure it out or get help to do that.

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Therapy for what?? What did I say?

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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Luke, here are comments I have heard from the females I have been surrounded by this week:

Men go to places like Bali, to perve at the women. When I suggested that the women do the same thing to men, I got a Pffffft, as though females have never had a sexual or deviant thought about men.

Women are not given top jobs, due to a boys own club, especially in the military. When I suggested that women may not be as interested in some of these roles, A segue into how Muslim women are treated was the response, as though women aren't given equalities in the west.

When I commented that Thatcher did the same job as a man, but in a dress, that suddenly made me sexist. I suggested that a comment was made about how it was implied that women would do a better job if in top military roles would make a difference just because they are female, when Thatcher didn't make a difference as pm, just for being female. I was then told not see it as gender, as though there is no difference, when the suggestion was that they are "special".

That males need women to keep them from being self-absorbed. I asked what a female needs a man for then and got no response.

That a suggestion I made instead of doing something else that was confided in me, suddenly became about me telling her what to do. It's like walking on eggshells.

A female cries because one of her students doesn't like her that she teaches. Heck, let's just all bring on the teàrs when someone doesn't like us. It's no wonder they aren't always taken seriously.


Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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I agree with your points. Unlike Luke I do not see Moana or Rapunzel as people hooked to cell phones. One thing I notice about Moana and Rapunzel and Judy Hopps they had a desire to go and complete something that had nothing to do with sex. Judy Hopps wanted to be a big city girl (for some reason). However, I do find Rapunzel's desire to see the big world and Moana's desire to sail the sea more interesting. To be honest are princess and princes stories dead and now unrelatable to even woman who are sound of mind? I can understand Moana and Rapunzel in some ways. The two were teenagers (and Judy Hopps was the oldest at 24). I feel Moana and Rapunzel would have eventualy gotten depressed and maybe even die at a young age if they did not go the course they did. The only thing that may have given then a normal life span is if Gothle's distractions were enough or if Moana's attempt to instilled in her a love of her culture would be enough to keep her going. Luke seems to be with mgtows so I do not understand why he is so for romance. In the end she could be married but her voyage was her story. Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey are not good example. While I was not bother with Bella and Edward being close I think women need to accept most men do not operate like Edward. Christian Grey was a jerk but he also looked after her and made sure her sexual predatory boss could not do anything to her (for example). He even scolded her for being drunk. I read wiki to get the plot of fifty shades of grey. However, again women should not except a man who has sexual fetish to give them up and only have sex with her in the way she would like it.

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Judy Hopps wanted to be a police officer.

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True, but it was more then that. She wanted to live in Zootoia. If she was a realist she could have worked at her local police department. Her parents speeches were not just about being a cop. They knew only certain animals would make good police officers in Zootopia.

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That's called, realism, practicality and logic. Those are three words feminists - like Ruby here are allergic to.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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That's called, realism, practicality and logic. Those are three words feminists - like Ruby here are allergic to.
That's called a slur. Get off YOUR soapbox.

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Your problem is you know I'm right.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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No, you're not right. You're in this mode of working on hating a group of people without really understanding them. You've lumped Ruby into that group and you are listening to that warped one who keeps showing up on this board, not to discuss the movie, but simply to spread toxic bile.

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You don't even understand yourselves and you are toxic bile.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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True, but it was more then that. She wanted to live in Zootoia. If she was a realist she could have worked at her local police department. Her parents speeches were not just about being a cop. They knew only certain animals would make good police officers in Zootopia.


The idea that only certain animals would make good police officers turned out to be a silly belief.

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I don't want to have to be in the position of going my own way. No sane man wants society to be so one-sided and hateful toward men.

And your last comment demonstrates why we have such a problem....

However, again women should not except a man who has sexual fetish to give them up and only have sex with her in the way she would like it.


A lot of women today refuse to accept men and make compromises for the wants and desires of their male partners... because they're male. That's sexist and intolerant. Men are actually far more accommodating.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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Stop acting in a hateful way then.

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I do not think men are more accommodating. As for the fifty shades of grey plot she never forced the guy to do anything he did not want to. He pursued her and had sense to know what she wanted. I am a realist and in honesty women probably should have men be upfront with what they want. That way there is honesty. Of course a woman should be upfront to and not decided to be fickled and change her mind. Some woman do that.

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The 50 Shades and Twilight comment was stupid, I'll grant you that. There nothing perfect or remotely good in those movies.

Coming from someone who tried to paint Bella Swan as a strong female character, that's hilarious.

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 Merry Christmas! 

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I NEVER said that. If I did, I said that in JEST.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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Todays films portray women as all powerful without love. Thats not realistic at all. Women need a man in their lives just like how men need women in their lives.
Meaning: Not at all; at least in a romantic way.

Women and men compliment each other
I'm not complimenting you on your ability to use the English language; but even if women and men did complement each other in a romantic way: How come you have not complained on the "Sing!" board about the male lead not having a romantic love interest? After all, you have made plenty of posts comparing the box office performance of Moana and Sing.

I enjoyed both movies.


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Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.

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There's nothing wrong with romance. But this is an action-adventure movie and doesn't need a romantic subplot. Do you need romance in action-adventure movies with a male hero? Teaching children that both boys and girls can have adventures and meaningful lives seems like a pretty good thing to me. Showing a girl in a role where she is actively helping her home town doesn't teach children, boys or girls, that there is anything wrong with romance. Romance is simply outside the story being told.

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While a topic on the importance of romance would certainly be a valid and interesting one, this topic certainly isn't that. This topic is merely cheap bait and, given the number of responses, the fish are definitely biting.

"If life is getting you down and needs uplifting, then please come dance with me!"

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You're talking bollocks. You need to watch more films before you can say that todays films portray women as all powerful without love.


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Twilight and 50 shades of grey are perfect.

I'll confess, my eyes randomly gravitated to that sentence initially and I almost clicked out, which is quite unfair.

Still, when two people are together, that doesn't mean they're going to fall in love. I'd rather have a good movie with no romance because it wouldn't complement the story (where would you fit a love-interest for Moana anyway?) instead of a movie that would've been well-paced if it wasn't for a forced, pointless and unnecessary romantic subplot.

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