MovieChat Forums > Still Alice (2015) Discussion > The Most Disturbing Scene ( testing the ...

The Most Disturbing Scene ( testing the audience's moral limits)


There is a scene in the movie that poses a genuine moral dilemma for the audience. I'd also argue that its morally instructive because it tests the limits of *our* moral identity.

I'm talking about, of course, the scene where Alice's past self communicates with her future self (or current self from our perspective later in the film).

I have to confess to finding that scene very uncomfortable. Not because I'm morally opposed to suicide but because it starts to resemble an act of murder.

We all know why Alice instructs her future self to take the pills: Alice can't imagine living when she no longer knows who (or where) she 'really' is.

From this perspective, Alice's message is morally defensible and its easy to identify with her choice - she wants to put herself (and her family) out of its misery. Alice can't imagine still being Alice beyond this point, and would rather die.


The only problem is that she is presupposing the very thing at issue - a continuity between self.

If identity is an expression of memory, then there is the question of whether they're still the same person throughout time.

Since Alice didn't understand (remember) what she was watching - go kill yourself now - then her former self had a questionable claim upon her future self.

I suppose what I'm saying is: I found that scene very disturbing because she was essentially telling someone other than herself to go kill themselves.

The Alice about to take the pills gave little indication that she knew what she was doing or why: if it was without her knowledge or consent, then we're not about to witness a suicide attempt but someone trying to murder an impressionable (scared and impaired) person.

How did you feel about the scene? Did it test your limits?

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In fact, the Alice who is so diminished at the end DOES take a position about whether or not she's ready to leave. When she and her husband are at Pinkberry having their yogurt, he asks her, very gently, if she's ready to leave, and she answers very firmly, "I'm not done yet." She, of course, is talking about her blueberry yogurt: he's talking about leaving NY for Minnesota, but we, the audience, understand that she's really talking about the pills. She's not ready to go yet: she's not done yet. Even if the simple pleasure of enjoying the blueberries is all that's left, she wants it.

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I agree that's what it looked like when she made the video for her future self, but what it was really an attempt to exert some control over her future situation. To be able to end things on her own terms. What she couldn't anticipate is that when the time came to follow the instructions, she would probably not be able to. That to me is the real tragedy here. (Not, btw, that she couldn't kill herself. No matter whether you think that's right or wrong, it's still tragic.) The great tragedy is that someone so smart, so full of memories is robbed of everything she held dear and even of her own dignity. What a horrible thing to happen to anyone.

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There is one aspect of this scene that seems to have been overlooked by the posters here, and that is the issue of control. The Alice we first meet in the story thinks she knows best. She tried more than once to get Lydia to go to college as a back-up plan. Lydia wanted to live her life as she saw fit, saying, "I'm happy."

In a sense, the Alice that makes the video is playing Mother to the later Alice, telling her what to do. But the earlier Alice doesn't know everything, for instance, she doesn't consider what might happen if her less able self stumbles across the video accidentally. Earlier Alice is thinking about her current version of happiness, and imposing it on later Alice, only assuming, not actually knowing where later Alice will be emotionally.

Alice's two other children have followed paths more similar to Alice and John. They are too busy to care for her. John makes the more practical choice of taking the new job, so he can't care for her, either. Lydia is the one who comes through for Alice when Alice is no longer able to be in charge of her life, but still seems to know about love, evidenced by her response to Lydia regarding the passage she was reading to Alice.

There's a message here about control versus acceptance, and the often opposing values of love and caring versus material achievement. Ironically, early Alice could have learned something from later Alice and her no-back-up-plan daughter, Lydia.

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[deleted]

to me it wasnt disturbing.

myself and my mother cared for my father from early Vascular Demntia symptoms up into the end when he had to go into a horrible horrible "nursing home" it was a horrible time. it was all in all 6 years. he was in a home to the last 2 years and we would visit him daily. my mother would spend all day. i would go as often as i could as i was working but would get time off in the week and spent 3 days a week with him. he passed away from pnewmonia and other dementia symptons after he was put on nil by mouth. it was constant surrealness, heart ache and torment. My mother had also cared for her father as he had full on Alzeimers. So yeah it runs in my mothers and fathers side. And i have had plenty of head trauma from bike crashed. if i knew i was getting the onset of the diseases i too would 100% look at ways of ending the turmoil and living hell early. I would rather have it than my mother. shes has been through enough.

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In a sense, the Alice that makes the video is playing Mother to the later Alice, telling her what to do. But the earlier Alice doesn't know everything, for instance, she doesn't consider what might happen if her less able self stumbles across the video accidentally. Earlier Alice is thinking about her current version of happiness, and imposing it on later Alice, only assuming, not actually knowing where later Alice will be emotionally.


That is a very thoughtful take on the scene and I don't know if the director meant it that way, but it makes so much sense the way you put it.

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More great points I hadn't thought of! What an awesome thread.

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I viewed that scene as the enactment of a living will - there was no moral dilemma.

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Exactly. I was thinking this was a living will of sorts. It means that while a person is still in a sane state of mind, they make the decision about whether their life should be supported or be terminated given certain circumstances.

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As a scientist, a professor myself, I totally agree with Alice's choice. I would do exactly the same thing. I am nothing without my mind. After watching this movie, I am seriously considering putting this in my will: If my mind is gone, I ask my family to put me to sleep, exercise my right-to-death, if it is legal by then.

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[deleted]

I am a college teacher (not a Professor), and also found myself agreeing with Alice's choice. It is known that the more educated you are, the faster the disease will progress. It was also mentioned in the film. Anyone who has been around an Alzheimer's patient understands the downhill spiral it takes. My brother-in-law started out with misplacing things and memory loss. It soon got to the point that he was a threat to his well-being.

We visited him in a VA Nursing Home. At this point, he could feed himself. Next visit, we fed him and he needed a walker. Soon, he didn't know who we were. Finally, he was in a fetal position. I would never want to get to that point. The thought of not knowing your child(ren) or Grandchildren would be
devastating to me. I don't have any mention of want to do should this happen. Perhaps there is something that should be put into my revocable living trust?

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I agree with you, this is exactly the same choice I would make. But it was interesting watching the scene where she accidentally opens the video. The first thought that came to my mind was "No, not yet!" I don't know why but it just didn't seem like the right time. Who knows if pre-Alzheimer's Alice would have agreed though.

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This moral dilemma isn't really a dilemma at all anymore, but forced upon us by ancient authorities, peers and religion as a way to exercise control one's values. As freedom of speech should exist, this should be treaten the same way. We are not dumb peasants anymore, as information is available everywhere for everyone. Sure, we are still taught this way, but as a basic value we should all have self determination. I still cant believe people take the right to control other people's lives.

OT, to argue that one person isnt the same person in the same body is beyond imagination. Ridiculous thought that there is a border in which someone can or cannot decide about their own existance. In this movie there was not even such a situation, because Alice made a will, whether it is considered legal should not even be a question.

I was sincerely sad Alice could not exercise her will, as recorded in her own made video. People thinking otherwise are objecting to the whole principle of a will.

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I thought too it was essentially attempted murder of "future Alice" by "past Alice", especially as she does not tell her future self what the pills are for. The scenario actually reminded me of Memento somewhat.

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Good point--like what we learn at the end of the movie he actually did at the beginning.

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I was completely rooting for Alice to pull off the suicide as I watched.

But upthread, a 65yo noted that she was pretty happy with her life. However, she acknowledged the her 16yo self, if given a taste of what it felt like to be 65 ("slow and achy") might think it was not worth living! The problem is whether our younger selves have the right to decide that for our older selves.

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If you think that past Alice and future Alice are different people because memories equals continuity of self, then it still isn't murder because Alice has no memories, and therefore according to your logic, she has no self. It's more like switching off the life support system from the past. And it is entirely her choice because it's her body and the remnants of her mind and her history and her family. Future Alzheimers Alice is not a different person, she is just less of the person she was. Alice still has total rights over herself, past, present and future. Don't try and be too pretentious and philosophical for your own good.

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humans are embedded with a deep fear of dying. otherwise we would jump off a cliff after the first bad headache and the experiment would end. also many are burdened with suicide being a mortal sin. so you have heredity and environment working against suicide. alice either did not have the courage to kill herself and was hoping vegetable alice could do it or she gambled that she could live her last coherent moment and still pull it off. either way she lost, which maybe a lesson to others in her predicament. as nursing homes become more and more populated and costly, future generations will have to deal with the suicide issue.

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