Did John actually end up taking that job in Minnesota, or did he decide not to? Did he leave Alice permanently at the end? Or, if he did take the new job, was it just temporary? As for Lydia, did she move home to help John take care of Alice while John was at work during the day (if he didn't take the job), or was she solely taking care of Alice because John left permanently? There was probably some obvious dialogue about it, but I must've have missed it. Thanks for your help!!
He took the job in Minnesota, Lydia moved back to look after Alice while he was away. I'm guessing he'd be home with her on the weekends but to be honest I think it just hurt him too much to see Alice like that everyday. Lydia knew how to take care of her.
This was the only part of the movie that bothered me. When someone is at Alice's stage of dementia, one person cannot care for her. She needed round-the-clock supervision and physical care (taking her to the toilet, taking her to the shower, sometimes forcing her to do bathe or eat because she doesn't remember what those things are).
It's unrealistic to think one daughter can do that herself full time on her own.
(Of course, we only see a short period of time; we don't know how many shifts of home nurses they have or how many weeks or days from the end of the movie they move her into a nursing home.)
But when he took the job in Minnesota, she should have been moved in a facility.
...to be honest I think it just hurt him too much to see Alice like that everyday
To be honest, I know people like him. Too self-focused and not really in love and loving his wife. I cannot believe that he was not willing to take off a year to spend with her during her last period of cognition.
My partner is also declining from a cognitive impairment illness -- not Alzheimers but the second most common one.
I have compromised my professional life not only to be sure he is well-taken care of but to spend as much time with him as I can. Yes, it is really painful and it is like being in mourning for years. But I wouldn't trade a single moment I have with him for any more professional success. I was also on a professional cusp not dissimilar to the opportunity John had. And though I did not make the choice consciously -- on a day by day basis, I always chose my partner's needs over mine.
Pretty much everyone disagrees with my choice. My partner now lives in a continuing care facility -but if I am not on top of everything on a daily basis, the care deteriorates to being merely maintenance that is minimal work for the staff.
At the same time that my partner entered the full-time nursing part of the facility, so did several other people. They are all now zombies, sitting in a chair all day looking uncomprehendingly at a television screen or just into blank space.
My partner is still fully active and alive intellectually. We go to movies, he works on a major collection of items he accumulated over his lifetime with assistants I hire. He spends every weekend with me.
This facility is one of the best in the country. My partner is lucky that he can financially afford it. But family members delude themselves that if they come and take their loved on out to a meal a couple times a month, they are doing well by the loved one.
That is a convenient delusion -- it certainly doesn't require any effort on the family members' part.
I am not sure what I would do if it were a parent or a sibling. I don't think I would make the same sacrifice. But when it is the person you love, your committed relationship of trust and caring and very deep bond -- to me there is no other choice. But then not everyone is lucky to have such a committed relationship of deep love.
Thank you justitia, I really appreciate your openness and honesty. That's very selfless of you to continue to care for and be there for your partner as he suffers with his deteriorating illness. It shows how much you love him, and I'm sure he greatly loves and appreciates you for doing so. He's lucky to have you in his life, because many who suffer from cognitive impairment illnesses such as Alzheimer's, Dementia, etc. do not have that dedicated, sacrificial, and loving support.
I wonder if it was the other way around - sick husband and healthy wife- if the script would have make her leave him behind... I don't think so, and I find it kind of disturing for man...
And I don't know how he will be able too live with himself... It is horrible to see a loved one be sick, but at least you can tell yourself you helped them to the end.
I wonder if it was the other way around - sick husband and healthy wife- if the script would have make her leave him behind...
Good point. It’s interesting that the daughter moves back home to care for her mother. The son lived in the same state but is hardly shown helping out. The other daughter has newborns to care for.
In my experience it's usually women who become caretakers despite the great mental and physical toll it takes on their lives.
Am not sure if your situation is quite the same, and I certainly am proud of anyone who is able to do what you are doing, John, seems to have said, for Alice to live the way she wanted for that year was not financially possible. Their lifestyle, being what it was, and her needing constant care in the home. That said, I certainly hope that I never have to make such a choice I am very happy for you and your partner he is able to be fully active mentally All the best
What a moving message. I admire you and I am happy for you that you can have these beautiful moments together, against the odds. All the best to the both of you.
My partner passed away, rather suddenly and unexpectedly a week ago. His passing was partially induced by hospital mal-management- though it is too painful for me to go into here.
Over the couple of weeks leading up to his demise, initial circumstances was a fall, I was with him most of the time. The last few days, when I insisted he be taken out of the hospital and back to his continuing care facility I was with him all day and night except for a couple of days when I was sick.
He wasn't able to communicate much any more though he would look at me quite intensly and when I was home sick, I would call and ask that they put the phone by his ear. When he heard my voice, they said his eyes would pop open.
The last words he said, a few days before he died, was "love you".
Though most of the time he breathed with his mouth wide open, about an hour before he past, and I was holding him and kissing him around his face and around his lips, he managed to close his mouth and kiss me back.
I just held him as his breathing became weaker and and would stop and start. Finally, at one point, it stopped and did not start again.
It is a week later and I am so bereft. I cry all the time. I call out his name. I pray and beg that he can come back -- though I know full well that is not possible.
I love him so much, I miss him so much --my heart is breaking.
Somehow I thought of this string of posts from a year ago, tonight. And I just wanted to post what happened here.
How is your partner doing now? My dad also had the 2nd most common form, vascular dementia, and passed away this past Christmas eve. So needless to say, we are not looking forward to the upcoming holidays. He lived with my sister about a mile away from me, and we took care of him the best that we could. It was very hard to see him decline to someone that withered away mentally and physically. My heart still hurts, but I'm glad that he's not suffering any more.
In the book, John takes the job in NYC. I too think he was a "sh*t" to take a job when he could have gone on sabbatical and stayed with his wife. Their days together (as they knew them) were numbered. His career could have gone on hold for a year or two. The children where actually much more sympathetic towards their Mother than her husband. "Not being able to see her like that" is a cope out. Putting your head in the sand and disappearing from reality is selfish. And you are right - if the situation had been reversed, it would have been expected that the wife put her career on hold and stay with her husband. The saddest part of this story was Alice's private stash of sleeping pills to be taken when she became worse. I often wonder about people with terminal conditions and how long they would wait before taking pills. I guess survival is still the strongest instinct - whether you consciously remember it or not. Kudos to Julianne Moore for taking on this role. She one of our best actors in the industry.
In the book, the Howlands lived in Boston and the new job was in New York City. Alice's children didn't want her to move because it was the last year they would have with her while she was "still Alice." John felt that he couldn't turn the job down as it was the opportunity of a lifetime. Of course it was a permanent job. There was a lot of dialogue about it in the book and almost none in the movie. I doubt if you missed anything.
So yes, he took the job and the children were stuck taking care of their crazy mother. He should have divorced her and put her in a nursing home so he could remarry.
'Crazy'? She has alzheimer's, do you know what that is? Educate yourself.
Why would he divorce her? For having a disease that she can't help have? That statement reveals a lot about you. What a great person you must be. How would you feel of your partner divorced you and married somebody else because you had a disease. You are disgusting.
I could have sworn they showed John and Alice moving into a smaller row-house (right after they had both gone to get frozen yogurt) as if they had BOTH moved to MN together. You can also see the differing view from their (smaller) living room window as Lydia reads the play to Alice
I hate to say it but I completely disagree with most of you on here. You can't judge John or how much he loved Alice. You have no idea of the pain he was in. In fact I would say it would be easier to stay with someone and watch them deteriorate if you cared a little less for them.
Sometimes love can be so deep (30 years remember) that you know it will destroy you so totally to watch this person become a shell with no knowledge of your existence. Some people do wear their partners illness like a badge of honour but to me that is more selfish. "Look at me being caring - Aren't I great". My mother was the same, My Dad wasn't ill but here husband was. The bitterness that can develop in the role of carer / patient is painful to watch with many neurological illnesses.
Alice wouldn't have recognized him, she even knew this and set in place a plan for her suicide as she knew the damage this illness would create for her family.
So, great if you want to give up all of your life to care for someone who is going to die not even knowing who you are, but don't judge someone who can't. It doesn't make him selfish, it DOES NOT mean he loves Alice, or who Alice was any less.
Don't confuse sacrifice for love, a pointless sacrifice would not have made his love for her any stronger. His taking the new job, from which a sabbatical WAS NOT available, did not mean he loved her any less. If the roles had been reversed there would have been women cheering all over the place if she had asserted her right to a career over the stereotypical caring sacrifice.
I guess most of those calling John a selfish S H I T are women? Well, when Alice is dead and gone, he will still be grieving but have 20 to 30years of his life still to live, and who can he help by taking the new job, how many people will benefit from is new career. Alice will be no better or worse with her daughter, in fact it would help her daughter no end as it would show her that she was the one who was the unselfish giver rather than her elder sister.
John taking the job is a win-win for all concerned. John's life is better, Alice's life is better, Lydia's life is better.
Lilac, I agree with you. My father had congestive heart failure and was on dialysis. It was very, very difficult for me to see my father waste away. I was a daddy's girl and it broke my heart to visit him. I also knew I'd feel awful if something happened to him and I hadn't spent much time with him or my father took my absence as not loving him. I finally started to visit him and it got easier (not easy....easier)!
Just because I originally could not bring myself up to visit my father doesn't mean I didn't love him, was selfish because my mom was there to care for him or that my life in my city was more important than him.
Everyone grieves or struggles with a family member's illness differently. I don't think any one person is wrong. Who knows, John may have eventually gained strength to be there for Alice. He was used to her being this strong, intelligent, independent woman and she morphed into a fragile, dependent person he wasn't used to. I get it. My dad was 6ft 4in, 250 lbs. To see him lose weight (under 200 lbs), need to hold on to walls to walk, and move around at a snail's pace broke my heart.
Never judge what you think you can handle....trust me, it's something different when you experience it.
I agree with your point of view and your description of what John is going through.
Also, what professions allow something called a sabbatical, except for professors and doesn't it have to be pre-approved for a specific purpose, e.g. research or writing papers/books or travel? Most of us are in jobs where we get 2-3 weeks off (in the U.S.) with pay per year plus holidays. I think John made a comment that he could not afford to take a year off (without pay). Not only are there the expenses to support them but also there are additional medical expenses. Suppose the medications alone are $1,000 per month (an amount I pulled out of the air). And there will need to be more than her daughter staying with Alice and a maid cleaning house -- she needs a medical practitioner of some sort.
In addition, the "one year" was an estimate of the amount of time she might have where she still has some of her faculties, right? That is, she may live for 10-20+ more years and will most certainly need to be in a nursing home. She was going downhill so fast, I speculated that when it gets to that point (probably in just a few months and not a full year), that she will be moved to a Minnesota nursing home. He will be able to frequently visit her although at that point she won't know who he is. Truly heartbreaking. I think it made sense for John to take the job. He doesn't need to stay home for a year feeding and clothing his wife every day to prove to other people that he still loves her.
How exactly is Lydia's life better? She took on the sacrifice John didn't want. She put her life on hold (and as an actress the career lifespan is short). I'm maybe too close to this but I took care of my mom for the last 10 years and did home hospice where I cared for her 24/7. lydia loved her mother as I did mine, but it's still a huge sacrifice especially when one is young
They are able to stay not working for a whole year, and keep their job when they come back.
I can't see anybody here except milionaires that can do that. We won't be able to pay bills next month. And we are yelled at just by saying we won't be able to go to work next day, many people are forced to keep working even having some illness. Imagine if we'd say we wanna take "a break" for *a year*.
Coming to think about it, this movie handles Alzimer in a very mature way.
It doesn't just show the desease and how it affects the deseased. It shows how it affects the whole family. And the portraited family is kinda real, like the fights between mother and dauther and how it remained even after discoverying the desease.
Also, if we pay attention to many details in the movie, we see that they constantly wanna show the message that the desease is painful (struggling), but deseased ones can still retain part of their lives and not suffer from it. Alice is shown smiling and happy, even on the last scene when she's barely able to understand simple phrases and say a few words. I feel author and director wanted to tell us that with willpower and friends/family it is possible to live the desease and remain active and happy.
Well, but what about the husband? Should he "prove his love" and throw away his job to live most time at her side? Well that's a choise that people in his position, and not us, must do. No matter how much he could love her, she'd gonna die, and he'd not. And even though she clearly asked him to stay with her, she also didn't suffer when he wasn't there. He also wasn't in the position of fleeing and avoiding her, he seemed to like his job and would need to keep working after she died. After that, he'll still have his life, probably marry again and move on.
And in the end her dauther made the job sacrifice and came to take care of her. He didn't leave her alone with some nursery.
I think the message here is that our "spouse" dies we must not die too, we must live on, no matter how painful or immoral it may look to others. And that when people get old and sick, it's their children that must care for them, not their "spouse".
I think the message here is that our "spouse" dies we must not die too, we must live on, no matter how painful or immoral it may look to others. And that when people get old and sick, it's their children that must care for them, not their "spouse".
That is absurd. That's definitely not the message in the movie, and it'd be silly if it was.
No one's saying he should die too, but he definitely could afford to take a year off work and be more with her, especially since she asked him. Fact is he didn't manage to handle it. Lack of strength, selfishness, who knows. The daughter could.
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In the book, it was made clear that John and Alice had recently taken a joint sabbatical to write books. Their sabbatical was so recent, they had to wait a few years to take another one. Also through out the book Alice had an inner dialogue about personal responsibilities verses professional success.
Alice happily stayed home to take care each of her three children. She sacrificed working a few years for each child. And her inner dialogue knew it was the right thing to do for the children, but it hurt her professional. She knew her husbands career did not suffer, because he did not stay home. That was one of the reasons Alice wanted Lydia to get an education, because she assumed Lydia would marry and have children. She assumed Lydia would take time off to nurture her children and that would impact her career. That is why Alice wanted Lydia to get an education, while she was young and unencumbered.
Alice was also worried about her pregnant daughter and her career.
So in a sense John was right. The family was very clear. Alice had made career sacrifices. And it did concern her.
Plus Alice was just fifty. She could live decades and would need expensive medical care. Alice visited that facility and the cost was expensive. Until she reached that point, during the week Lydia and a helper took care of Alice. And on weekends John came home.
I wanted to hate John for leaving Alice to take the job but now that I think about it, where would the money come from for her care? Not Lydia. Not the other sister because she just had babies. John was her main source of income, unless she received some from her previous job like a 401k. I get that he didn't want to see her decline and wanted to take the amazing offer with great benefits I think he said, but it just felt wrong.
I think subconsciously it reminded me of a time when I was in the hospital from a nervous breakdown and my boyfriend broke up with me because of the stress my delusional thinking caused him. He was an *beep* and not at all like John.