MovieChat Forums > Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox (2013) Discussion > How did Zoom do it? Story premise is wac...

How did Zoom do it? Story premise is wack.

posted 11 years ago by xvzz02
58 replies | jump to latest

It's implied through the film that Zoom was responsible for the new timeline.

But at the end, we see Flash going back to stop his earlier self from saving his mother, and thus resetting the timeline. So Barry did it, and Barry undid it.

So, how was Zoom involved at all? He's from the 25th Century, but in the new timeline, the world ended about now. How is Zoom in this timeline, and aware of the original one?

Unless he was sneaking along next behind Flash when he made the change. Which is impossible since the story hinges on the "Speedforce" not being strong enough to allow two Flashes to travel in time.

Or does Zoom have another way to travel in time?

Also the whole explanation of how one tiny change in history -- one woman survives a home invasion -- causes Armageddon is absurd. People travel in time constantly in the DC universe, they never have such drastic "butterfly" effects. They even acknowledge that many of the changes preceded Barry's mother's death, but just handwave it away.

While I liked Aquaman and Wonder Woman destroying the world in a lovers' tiff, the basic premise of the story is nonsense.

[–] LiberaMe 11 years ago

I didn't understand this either.

The point at the end of the film seemed to be that Flash caused the distorted world by attempting to run back in time to save his mother.

After all, we see one version of Flash running after another version of Flash, with the clear implication that the pursued Flash is running back in time to the point of his mother's death, obviously to save her (rather like Superman saving Lois in Superman 1978).

But at no point earlier in the film did we actually see Flash running back in time to try to save his mother.

So when did that initial, Flash-generated distortion of time happen?

[–] Otaku-sempai 11 years ago

Professor Zoom explained it. Barry created a chronol disruption when he saved his mother that triggered unintended consequences up and down the timeline.

"You seem familiar with my name, but I don't remember smelling you before."

[–] LiberaMe 11 years ago

Professor Zoom explained it. Barry created a chronol disruption when he saved his mother that triggered unintended consequences up and down the timeline.

Right, but we don't actually see him doing that in the film. We don't even see him trying to do that until the very end, when one version of Flash is running after the other Flash.

It's like the film is missing a scene, somewhere early on, in which Flash was supposed to come up with the idea that, "Hey, if I run back in time, I can save my mother," and then proceed to run back in time and do just that.

[–] PeteyParker 11 years ago

They didn't show it because that is the "twist". The audience is supposed to be shocked that it was the Flash that caused the timeline distortion not Professor Zoom.

[–] mihiratheace 11 years ago

he was seen running but not at time barrier breaking speeds in that scene.

[–] Neoblackdragon 11 years ago

Yeah that's the point. the big reveal is that Barry is responsible for all of this and minus Zoom's goading, it was all his fault. If we had seen the scene then him looking for Zoom would have been almost pointless.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] wkehr 11 years ago

Having read the comic version first, watching this was less of watching the story and more of "how are they going to show it". But even when reading the comics, the question that had a really implausible answer was:

Zoom went back in time and killed Barry’s mother but did not cause the massive time distortion. Barry went back in time to basically let the original events happen in their natural order so how does that cause a massive time distortion?

[–] Progeny51 11 years ago

Zoom had already killed Barry's mother.

This story only takes place a year after Barry was told.

It was always Thawne that killed Nora. Any changes that occured because of that are what we have seen in the main DC universe, the biggest one being the existence of the Flash family.

[–] carl_johnson-1 11 years ago

[–] Progeny51 11 years ago

It's covered better in the books.

[–] Neoblackdragon 11 years ago

Thawne is from the future but clearly he has not done anything to cause his own birth not to happen. Thawne knows he can't strangle Barry in the crib for instance.

So yeah Thawne knows how to do this because he's doing it right now by existing in the past.

[–] manjinder-rai 11 years ago

Thawne remarks to Flash in the movie that Barry messed up the timeline "like a rank amateur". This implies there IS a way to go back in time and make changes without having the "sonic boom"/unwanted ripples. Presumably Thawne knows how to do this.
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While that is an accurate description of a scene late in the film there was an early scene where Flash does something that amazes Zoom and the Flash makes some sort of comment about mastery of the speed force, implying that Zoom was not in his league.

Which seems a bit inconsistent with the comment late in the film, when Zoom instead calls the Flash an amateur.

[–] Schmendrick 9 years ago

It still makes sense though. Zoom is obsessed with, among other things, time travelling via the speed force, so it makes sense he'd be proficient in it. Flash focuses on beating all kinds of super-villains (plus he's probably more creative naturally), so he would know how to use his powers more creatively in hand-to-hand combat. His first time doing full-on time travel, with no planning or thought, lead to the Flashpoint paradox.

[–] reaseltbim 11 years ago

It is kind of funny to think that if Superman and the rest of the heroes didn't show up to save Flash, Zoom would have killed him and therefore stopped Flash from going back and change the future, thus preventing the future war between Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

So in a sense when Zoom was going to kill Flash, he was indirectly trying to save the world from the destruction of the war in that changed timeline. If the bombs went off Flash would have never gone back in time.

So it is funny to me that Zoom both provokes Flash into going back by saying "you cannot save everyone" but at the same time he was "saving the world" by trying to Kill Flash.
Perhaps the Zoom that was trying to kill Flash with the explosives knew of the War that was coming and was trying to stop Flash.

[–] chinawhite252 10 years ago

Okay well ya, when you put it that way it doesn't make sense. But dude, the movie is SICK.

Cult Leader my mind's frightening, I drink blood from a human skull like a Viking

[–] Fusion72 10 years ago

It happens when he says 'Nothing I can't run off'. Zoom's larger plan may've been to cause Barry distress and have him think about rescuing his mother. But, considering he was in lock-up, couldn't have followed him on that trip and survived the ripple. Unless, his future self figured it out.