MovieChat Forums > Veronica Mars (2014) Discussion > Piz is 'better' for Veronica than Logan....

Piz is 'better' for Veronica than Logan...

posted 11 years ago by vckha
34 replies | jump to latest

I love the VM fandom and through some posts and interviews of the casts/creators/producers etc. there is always the discussion of how Logan is "destructive," "not good for" Veronica and Piz is the nice, safe boy that treats her *so* well. So, I just need to address this HUGE misconception that no one seems to understand.

On the front of how good of a guy Piz is, I agree. Just based on Season 3 and the movie, yes Piz is a nice guy. He does in fact, treat Veronica well. No complaints here.

BUT, on the Logan front. Something needs to be cleared up, LOGAN HAS NEVER INTENTIONALLY HURT VERONICA. This pertains to how he was like in a relationship with Veronica. So if we look at Season 1, when they initially got together, he stood up to her to his 09er friends, and was there to support her, even after she accused him of rape... But he's still "bad" for Veronica? Season 2, he gives epic love speeches, saves her life, and states how much he will miss her when she leaves for NY for just a week... Yet, he's a "bad" guy. Season 3, he professes his love for her, worries about her safety, and has grown so much that even after she dumped him he wasn't an obligatory jackass... Yet he's a "bad" guy.

I am not forgetting early season 1, when he was an ass, or season 2. But we can't forget that this stemmed from hurt of the loss of Lily, his father's abuse, his mother's death and discovering that his father murdered Lily. He lashed out cause he had no one to blame.

The only time I could think of in terms of bad things Logan has done to Veronica when they were in a relationship, would be sleeping with Madison. But, even then, they weren't together actually and discussing this more would go into some Ross/Rachel "We were on a break" discussion.

Overall, due to history Logan is better suited for Veronica because they understand each other in ways that "normal" guy Piz cannot. Veronica was and never will be just ordinary and neither is Logan. So no, Piz is not "better" for Veronica. And c'mon... Who can deny chemistry between Bell and Dohring??

Essentially this post was for me to vent on the fact that I don't understand the misconception of how much Logan has treated her poorly and broke her heart - all in the context of them in a relationship.

[–] ohpenelope 11 years ago

also, If people love Piz so much can't they see that Veronica is no good for him?

Someone posted this on Tumblr, I couldn't have said it better myself

"Listen, if this was the Stosh Piznarski movie, fans would be smacking him upside the head at this point. “Have some self-respect, man”, we’d all say. This girl just dropped everything and flew across the country because her ex-boyfriend, whom she hasn’t spoken to in almost a decade, called her up and asked her to. She won’t even cross town to meet your coworkers after a billion requests. She ditched you at a party, after you flew across the country to be with her, to talk about said ex-boyfriend’s legal issues.
We’d cheer when he finally broke up with her. And, we’d use the fact that she slept with her ex not 18 hours later as yet another reason to prove that “She’s just not that into you, dude.”
Then we’d get to act two where he hits it off with the awesome copy girl at the radio station who’s been eyeing him for a while, and who really digs his dry wit and cute face. She’d probably fly to Oregon with him to meet his parents after a month. And, they’d probably live a really comfortable life listening to vinyls and taking walks in the park.
But, this isn’t the Stosh Piznarski movie."

[–] accashak 11 years ago

Couldn't agree more - I've never really understood the argument that Logan is bad for Veronica comes from.

Arguably Veronica has broken Logan's heart and hurt him more than the other way around and yet he's still there for her.

As to the Madison Sinclair incident ... Before Veronica found out he had already stated that the thought of it made him sick. I do feel that Veronica was overly harsh with him over it .... When people have been dumped by the person they love and are hurting they do stupid things and this was one of those things. By splitting up with him she essentially let Madison win which quite frankly was stupid of her.

If there is a sequel (everything crossed) I would just like Logan and Veronica to stay together and no more on and off again nonsense.

[–] MaryLiLamb 11 years ago

This is a great explanation.

[–] AgustaBeata 11 years ago

I agree with everything in that qoute! Spot on! I am a big fan of Piz, but I have never liked the idea of him with Veronica. Like she says herself, there is no drama with Piz, and Veronica needs drama.

But I really don't get why it has to be one or the other. I don't think Logan is a good match for Veronica just like I don't think Piz is a good match. IMHO, no character is a good match or the "right one" for Veronica.

Yes, I know, my english sucks, but while I thankfully accept helpful and nice comments, I don't need reminders and nasty comments about it!

"Bevara Stråholmen - Stoppa Janzons mygel"

[–] poit57 11 years ago

I never thought Piz was a great match for Veronica, but I liked him a heck of a lot more than Logan for her. The thing with Logan is that, yes, he loved Veronica, but she was pretty much the only person that he acted like a decent human being toward. It wasn't until the movie that he was revealed to not be a terrible person in general. That's just my take on the character.

But I'm a "nice guy," so I tend to root for the "nice guys" in movies and TV shows even if other people find the characters to be too boring.

[–] vckha 11 years ago

The thing with Logan is that, yes, he loved Veronica, but she was pretty much the only person that he acted like a decent human being toward.

Where does this come from? Post season 1 obligatory psychotic jackass, he showed kindness and empathy towards many people. He tried to stop Beaver, even after finding out what he had done. He was there for Dick in Season 3, was nice to that little girl (Dick's "girlfriend's" little sister), etc. So I don't agree with that much.

The reason why Logan is such a likable character (besides his obvious good looks) is that we can see how he grew up and all that *beep* and crap he had to go through, and still is a genuine good guy with a little bad-boy in him. That's way more likable than Piz who was just too nice, aka boring.

[–] poit57 11 years ago

Throughout the series, it always seemed that any time he showed some decency, it wasn't long before he was back to just being the jerk. It wasn't until the movie where it really felt like he really had matured past that. It was only because of that change that I didn't completely hate Veronica and Logan getting back together toward the end of the movie.

[–] Ashaeda 11 years ago

As others have said, I don't think either guy was right for her. If I could have my pick though, it would be Piz every time.
I never found Logan endearing throughout the series run, I remember cheering anytime he and V broke up lol.
I don't see his "obvious good looks" the way you do, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I doubt it. He just always seemed like a boy to me, nothing manly about him. His behaviour throughout the series, and movie tbh just emphasised that.

Veronica is way too cool a chick to end up with a douche like Logan.

Elle

"Strangers have the best candy"

[–] kathleeners 11 years ago

Who did Logan not treat decently?

The only one that comes to my mind is Weevil, but that's understandable--Lily was cheating with Weevil. Would you be nice to the guy that was screwing your girlfriend?

Other than that, there aren't any other main characters he was terrible to...at least that stand out to me.

[–] vmfiles 11 years ago

Well...Logan has had his fair share of incidents. He did start out being a complete jerk in season 1. But as the series progressed, we realized why. That his outbursts steamed from being abused as a child, his girlfriend treating him like crap, and his mother committing suicide. Also finding out his father was a murderer and having his house burned down--not cool. This guy has been through some things.

Logan did use Hannah to get next to Dr. Griffith to get him to drop his testimony against him. That was the most *beep* up thing Logan had ever did--in my opinion. That and sleeping with Madison, his friends ex. Imagine if Veronica slept with Dick how hurt he'd be? Not that THAT would ever happened but just imagine.

Anyway Logan isn't perfect. Lord if he was perfect, we wouldn't love him so much for being the most complex character ever developed. By the time we got to season 3, we found out he was capable of putting others' needs before his own and that he could genuinely care about someone else.

In this film, we see that Logan has shed all those past problems and reinvented himself. He found stability by joining the Navy and becoming a productive member of society. I literally love Logan. He has become somewhat of a staple now--a wall flower of sorts. Sure he will still have some of his old tendencies, leopards don't change their spots, but he has learned to control himself.

As for his relationship with Veronica, I agree. He has never treated her badly. In fact, I feel Veronica has treated Logan with more disdain than he's ever treated her. But that's just me.

"Sure... fine... whatever."

[–] blearyeyedmesgirl 11 years ago

Logan did use Hannah to get next to Dr. Griffith to get him to drop his testimony against him. That was the most *beep* up thing Logan had ever did--in my opinion.

Fortunately they did redeem Logan here. In his own way, he did fall for her. He stood up to her father after he dropped the charges against Logan and said he couldn't stay away from her. Was it the kind of epic LoVe he had for V? No, but he did care and therefore was somewhat redeemed.

-
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8922/maldance.gif

[–] blearyeyedmesgirl 11 years ago

The only one that comes to my mind is Weevil, but that's understandable--Lily was cheating with Weevil. Would you be nice to the guy that was screwing your girlfriend?

And yet he did help Weevil. Logan got him un-expelled from school and took on detentions with him to get him back into school. Then in season 2 they worked together to figure out who killed Felix. Sure they beat each other up for show in the bathroom in season 2, but that was so no one would be on to them working together.

They were never going to besties and okay with each others actions, but they were decent to one another.

-
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8922/maldance.gif

[–] kathleeners 11 years ago

I know! Even when Logan was a jerk, he always found a way to redeem himself.

I always loved the Logan/Weevil interactions...I wish they would have had at least one scene together in the movie.

[–] blearyeyedmesgirl 11 years ago

I always loved the Logan/Weevil interactions...I wish they would have had at least one scene together in the movie.

I know, I liked their short-lived bromance. As for the film: they didn't interact much, but they did have the reunion/fight scene together. I loved that after Logan, Weevil was next to jump into the fight.

-
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8922/maldance.gif

[–] KthulhuX 11 years ago

"Who did Logan not treat decently?"

Everyone he interacted with that he wasn't actively engaged in trying to get something from.

Seriously, the guy is pretty much the posterboy for entitled douchebags everywhere.

[–] zandylovesRISK 11 years ago

I'm also a nice guy which is the reason I like Piz more is because I see the same qualities and characteristic in him that I see in myself. The nice friend who makes jokes once in a while.
Logan though did put strain on their relationship by making mistakes whether some stupid decisions that didn't effect her or something she could forgive. Example would be Logan participating in the 09ers revenge against the lower class in the gap between S1 and S2. He was directly antagonizing them and they attack back with the drive by shotgun blast which is what eventually led to them breaking up. Then fooling around with Madison while he knew Veronica despised her. Logan and Veronica would both go to the end of the earth for each other which is shown in show multiple times as well as the movie. He also was quick to violence which is again why Veronica put the wedge between them in the S3's last episodes after he just went and beat up Piz just because he assumed he did the tape instead of actually have proof first.

Honorary Knight of Arendelle
Half-Blood #18 and Son of Poseidon, Son of Adam, Gryffindor 7th year

[–] chazisalmostgod 11 years ago

I think the problem here is semantics. Both Piz and Logan are nice guys. The difference is that Piz is weak. He's pretty much a wimp. I can't believe even the robot Veronica we see at the start of the movie wouldn't have torn him to shreds years ago, and set fire to the remains. But that's the magic of making movies.

Logan, on the other hand, is not weak. Sometimes misdirected, but he does what he perceives to be the right thing every time. By season 3, he was pretty much on the straight and narrow (for him) and dealt with the Hearst rapists and Veronica's sex tape exactly as should have happened.

[–] blearyeyedmesgirl 11 years ago

The thing for me is, I love Chris Lowell, so I tolerate Piz. I want him to be happy and find someone who fits into his life. Veronica just never did. She sure tried. But in the beginning of the movie, while she's still in NY with Piz, after she just found out about Bonnie De Ville and Logan's accusation, Piz knew. He's looking at her in the cab as she's staring out the window, and he already knows she's "gone".

Is that what anyone wants for Piz? Sure he'd keep taking it if V had continued to live the lie. He would just always know she'd want to be somewhere else, be someone else, and he'd live with it thinking he loved her enough for both.

Anyone who loves Piz just shouldn't want that for him.

And anyone who loves Veronica shouldn't want that for her either...

-
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8922/maldance.gif

[–] zandylovesRISK 11 years ago

I'm pretty sure him antagonizing the lower class after the Felix murder trial eventually led to harming of Veronica in the emotionally sense. Piz never did anything to hurt Veronica and Logan either made some mistake or did something not directly to Veronica but something to make her mad a him(jumping to a conclusion and beating Piz up after the sex tape).

Honorary Knight of Arendelle
Half-Blood #18 and Son of Poseidon, Son of Adam, Gryffindor 7th year

[–] blearyeyedmesgirl 11 years ago

You're right. Piz never did. anything.

He didn't even care that his girlfriends breasts had been flashed across everyone's computer screen and phone. Not even a quiet, angry moment between him and V about it... What a great guy!

Again, anyone who likes Piz should want better for him. With Veronica he's always going to believe, 'I can love her enough for the both of us' and yet that still won't be true.

-
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8922/maldance.gif

[–] zandylovesRISK 11 years ago

Are you talking about the sex tape being shown at the reunion? It seemed like shock that after 9 years this video is still being brought back up is why he didn't do anything.

Honorary Knight of Arendelle
Half-Blood #18 and Son of Poseidon, Son of Adam, Gryffindor 7th year

[–] blearyeyedmesgirl 11 years ago

No, sorry. I mean when it happened to them in college. Season 3. Where he first proved he doesn't do...anything.

-
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8922/maldance.gif

[–] vernuf 11 years ago

He didn't even care that his girlfriends breasts had been flashed across everyone's computer screen and phone. Not even a quiet, angry moment between him and V about it... What a great guy!

I imagine that by the point he even knew about it, he was too busy recovering from being attacked by Logan. Maybe having been brutally beaten had him a little distracted from other things. I know, not likely. No one who's ever beaten like that is ever like that.

[–] kathryn-laliberte 11 years ago

Thank you!!!!! I've never understood Logan's "bad boy," label. Maybe in early season 1 and parts of season 2, but not as an overarching character description. I find Logan one of the more interesting characters on the show because he has the most character growth. Logan is a flawed character. So is Veronica. Both Logan and Veronica are incredibly damaged people. But, they're damaged in similar ways. As a result, they get each other. Just because Piz is "nice" and "normal" doesn't mean he's right for Veronica. Piz is nice and he's kind but he doesn't get Veronica. Not really. And it's made pretty clear in both the movie and the book, that she was bored in NYC with Piz. She was unfulfilled.

Also while I understood fan reservations toward Logan in the show--his impulsivity, recklessness, tendency toward violence--I don't find those characteristics present in movie Logan. He's grown up. He's matured. He's no longer the person who would burn down a pool with Dick or sleep with his friend's stepmother. So now we have a character who truly gets Veronica and likes her for her true self without the bad characteristics he had on the show. I thought Rob Thomas did a really good job of maturing both Veronica and Logan in ways where it's conceivable that their relationship might work. The issues they had before don't really exist anymore.

Plus, as some people have mentioned, while Logan made many mistakes, he did treat Veronica very well when they were dating. He was incredibly supportive, caring, and understanding. He just had so many other external issues.

[–] stephlem89 10 years ago

Thank you!!!!! I've never understood Logan's "bad boy," label. Maybe in early season 1 and parts of season 2, but not as an overarching character description. I find Logan one of the more interesting characters on the show because he has the most character growth. Logan is a flawed character. So is Veronica. Both Logan and Veronica are incredibly damaged people. But, they're damaged in similar ways. As a result, they get each other. Just because Piz is "nice" and "normal" doesn't mean he's right for Veronica. Piz is nice and he's kind but he doesn't get Veronica. Not really. And it's made pretty clear in both the movie and the book, that she was bored in NYC with Piz. She was unfulfilled.

THIS so much!!

That is the very point I've been trying to figure out how to articulate... that, yeah, Veronica and Logan.. their relationship isn't always easy. They challenge each other. They both have those issues, and those issues sometimes come to a head and make things harder. But at the end of the day, that doesn't make it a worse relationship, and it doesn't make Piz a better fit for Veronica just because things are easier and drama free between them. Veronica and Logan have been through a lot together, and as much as they challenge each other, they do also know each other and get each other. What made me really invested in their relationship was the way that it just felt so naturally like instinct between the two of them to care about each other. Even when they weren't together, even when they were having their issues, if one of them really needed the other.. I would have no problem believing the other would be there no questions asked. I mean for all that Logan was coming a bit unhinged in season 2 at times (and I'll give him a break on that- the kid went through a freaking lot all at once!), and for all that he would be sleeping around with Kendal and whatever, as soon as it really counted, he was there for Veronica. And obviously, even after 9 years of not seeing him at all, the fact that Veronica didn't hesitate to a)believe he was innocent or b)fly across the county to be there when he really needed her, proves it works the other way around as well.

So exactly: Piz is a good guy; he is. And I'm sure things were simpler with him and Veronica than they were with Veronica and Logan. But just because they were simpler doesn't mean they were better, or a good fit for either of them. Logan just has this connection and understanding with Veronica that Piz doesn't, and that's not anything negative about him as a person, it just means he should find that person who he does have that connection with. It certainly doesn't mean it would have been worth it for them to stay in that relationship just because there was no drama. No drama doesn't necessarily equal optimal happiness.

Oh Bambi, I cried so hard when those hunters shot your mommy. - Kurt Hummel

[–] vernuf 11 years ago

You don't think secretly hiring someone to follow her around during a time when strange men following women around was particularly likely to evoke paranoia in those women was bad?

His reasons aside, that was a horrible decision on his part.

[–] MinaGodiva 11 years ago

I felt so sorry for Piz.. Getting rejected for Logan (again). Poor boy.

Dear Warden. You were right. Salvation lies within.

[–] KthulhuX 11 years ago

Most diseases would be better for her than Logan.

[–] hmclandmeter 11 years ago

Even in season 3 I simply didn't believe in Veronica's love for Piz, and there the small bit of the show's reality vanished. I don't think Veronica believed it either (what must Kristen have been thinking when she read this illogical love twist in the script?). I thought it was crappy writing at first. Later, seeing Veronica wasn't really into it, seemed to be going through the relationship motions, I considered it was very subtle acting on Kristen's part. She did great showing her lack of desire. Of course then the movie starts out with them being together again. Maybe Kristen should have said something then to stop this crazy reality. Very few women go for 'safe'. So for Kristen's sake I stick with bad writing. Maybe it was the only way to write Piz in the movie.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]