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The ending explained & why I see only one answer...

posted 10 years ago by hal-9010
59 replies | jump to latest

[EDITED: December 2016]
** SPOILERS **

Who is the final Sophie - is it S1 or S2?

The movie is really quite clear except for the final bacon scene which is clearly here to put doubt on who she is. A cheap shot by the director, but a clever cheap shot.

To figure out who "escaped", I think we need to look in to who these two girls really are, and what drives them through the whole movie. This is the smoking gun...

The problem is though that we don't really know S2 and what drives her. What was her ambition, her game and her goal?

She is in character through most of the movie and the little we see of her true personality seems quite bitchy and superficial. Even E2 did not dig her anymore. She seemed hell bent on destroying what was brewing between E2 and S1, and E1 and afterlife with him was not very much on her agenda, if at all.

She never really flirted or otherwise tried and lure E1 into her web. If anything, she was the reason it all went wrong.

So if we forget the ending and only see who S1 and S2 really are, then who would we guess would escape and live happily ever after with E1 in the end?

S1 wanted bliss and love and to rekindle what they once had, and she did love E – despite his infidelity and their relational problems. Indeed she fell hard for E2, but not who E2 actually was. She fell for a dream of who E1 could be. This is important to understand what drove S1.

As the culmination gets nearer, we all see a bit more of who E2 and S2 are. And once E2 says “*beep* you all” and runs away from both his ladies, and after E1 delivered his heartfelt and breakthrough speech, to me it seem clear that the movie tells us how S1 got what she ultimately hoped for from the “therapy”. She got her E1 back at that very moment and she (and we) realized in those final moments that E2 was a fake dick.

So what did S1 want? She wanted E... not a fake E, but the real E like he once was. In the end of the movie this is what she got. And E2 had ironically become the fake and the untrustworthy.... he had become the like one she was originally escaping from and E1 had become he she was dreaming abut (and I think this is the brilliancy of the movie).

It is commonly misunderstood that S1 fell for E2.

S1 never fell for who E2 actually was. He was constantly playing his part of a better and improved Ethan until the very end. S1 fell for E1 – or rather how she dreamed E1 would or could be. Even when she succumbs hard to E2’s charm it is when he tells her those longing words about how and why E1 was unfaithful back in the day. And S1 knew E2 was not E1 at this time and yet this is what really swept her feet.... think about it for a moment; what finally won her was a story about and emotions connected entirely to E1... She made love with E2 two times and both times were because of E1: The first time she simply believed it was her old chubby and did not know better. The second time is when E2 gives her those longing beautiful words associated to E1. S1 was in fact all the time smitten by Ethan, perhaps not his latest ways, but always for the hope or dream she had of him... and never this other guy, whoever he was.

So what did S2 want? Well, the movie is not very clear on this except she seemed hell-bent on E2 despite all his crap. And S2 is the only one who knows who and what E2 really is. She specifically says that she does not want to leave E2 or see another take him away. All her actions until the very end supports this mission. Nothing in the movie showed us any interest or affection towards E1.

Ultimately her motivation was never to take over S1’s life and be with E1 for the rest of her life living it out as a fake, as someone else. Which the movie then would imply! It simply goes against the S2 we are presented for. She is a no-nonsense kind of gal.

& what did E1 want? He wanted S1. He was in love with S1 and was not fooled by S2 and her acting. He saw right through her and very quickly. Through most of the movie he was adamant on pursuing S1, and only her. She was his end goal. The One He Loves. So if the final Sophie was in fact S2, it goes completely against his character to just accept her as though she was S1. And he should have smelled he deceit sooner, like he did at the resort. He was no fool.

... Okay, now let’s add the bacon ending... and this obviously confuses everything. Who is this loving S we experience in the epilogue?

IMO this movie only has one loving S and that was S1. A better ending to manifest that the “wrong S” had escaped would be to let her go down for breakfast and he would just hear the front door slamming....

So the way I see it is: The bacon scene tells us that S1 didn't want to change him anymore and that she accepted who he was or rather who he had become. They were now in sync, like a piano (the metaphor specifically used by Sam Malone earlier).

Also, why would S2 at all be flirted in the end like that...
she was no longer needed to act.
she was no longer required to be fake.
she could be who she actually was.
... And yet she completely “acted" like S1 for no good reason – other than of course if she in fact was S1.

So when the ending supposedly reduces S2 to a fake shadow of someone else entirely, I think it actually doesn’t. Sophie wanted love from Ethan. Ethan wanted love from Sophie. S2 was not hoping to take over the life of Sophie and she was in love with whoever E2 actually was and did not want to loose him. She surely did not want to win Ethan

IMO the essence of the movie is in E1’s heartfelt speech at the end. We should accept and even cherish our own flaws, warts and all, and those of our partners. In those imperfections we become the humans we are. In the end they both changed - he as well as her. It is most evident of his change at his speech and her at the final bacon scene.

The one S1 loves is E1. The one E1 loves is S1.

*******************************

And taken the opposite conclusion a wee bit further (If S2 left), then what is the film teaching us❓ Basically that all was in vain.... that his final speech is pointless... that their realizations during the film is lost... that despite E2 being a selfish dick, S1 still wanted him... that S1 did not want E1 because he was distant, and then she chooses E2 after she learns he is even more distant... that S1 ignores the fact that E2 had changed... that E1 ends up with a girl he does not know... that E1 ends up with a girl that doesn't want him... that E1 ends up with a girl even we the viewers have no real idea about... The final sweet scene in the bed becomes even more sad, because it is then shrouded in deceit...perhaps all this was the intention of the movie, but I doubt it.

*******************************

PS: I also read that the fact that E2 could not leave was because they had not broken up the relationship in those final moments. If so, why could S2 then leave seconds after? She couldn't either, and she knew. The S standing next to E2 in the end was far from happy. She knows she is where she was in the beginning and had not progressed at all, however S1 is finally now where she hoped to be, next to her loving husband.

PS 2: Someone else spotted another hint in the final bacon scene: E1 is now wearing the t-shirt E2 was wearing when S1 fell hard for him earlier. This T-shirt represents how E1 now is also changed - parallel to how the bacon thing shows us S1 had. Simply put, the T-shirt is the filmmakers way of subtly showing us that he too had changed.

PS 3: I have only ONE problem with my explanation. And that is the facial expression of Ethan when he hears the bacon thing. He does not seem loved, he seem bewildered. But of course he had not read my OP at that point in time... :-) Anyway, a contributory way to analyse this facial expression is to see it as sign that Ethan at that moment realized that the whole insane and awful retreat experience had worked and impacted them both in a positive way. Until then he considered the whole thing as plain wrong and borderline evil. Perhaps he sort of acknowledged that Sam Malone's wacky experiment had borne fruit and was in fact just what the "the doctor ordered".... such a realization should be expressed in a set of mixed emotions, and maybe this is what we see in his eyes in the end... at least, from that point of view it all fits nicely 

Am I wrong?

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] TxMike 10 years ago

I believe you are wrong. Here's why:

Right before the end, when S1 and S2 are side-by-side, if you notice one has a rather severe look about her while the other is making slight smiles. Earlier in the movie, when E1 was with either S1 or S2, we see that S2 usually has the slight smiles, and that is the one who went with him at the end.

At the end when she cooks bacon, we learned earlier that Sophie 1 did not like for Ethan to eat bacon so she never cooked it for him. I don't believe that was a red herring the writer threw in, I believe that was our clue that he really had S2 with him.

And the real clincher, at the end the music playing is "While I'm far from you my baby..." meaning Ethan realized that his wife, Sophie 1, was left behind. That song was not randomly chosen.

listen to the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j43hm1j7liU

Sophie 2 went home with Ethan. But then, since it is a fantasy, it is quite acceptable if we arrive at different conclusions that we are each very certain about. I base mine on what I observed, you seem to base yours more on what you think the motivations were for each character.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] hal-9010 10 years ago

The “light smiles” thing seem like a stretch to me, but granted I do not remember if this is distinct enough to be considered a hint and so I am open for this. Need a rewatch to agree or disagree. :)

The bacon thing is of course the big one, and it can be accepted as either imo. Dont get me wrong, I agree with you; it is just that I think it goes against what the story fundamentally told us beforehand which I why I offer my alternative view on this.

Anyways, just checked the lyrics of: THE MAMAS AND THE PAPAS "Dedicated To The One I Love" and I can see two arguments supporting my interpretation still:
1: The song holds the title "The One I Love" and so is fitting for the credits for obvious reasons.
2: The song is about love and how it requires dedication. Not lost love, or necessarily doomed love. So from a mere general point of view, the lyrics supports the struggle that S1 and E1 was fighting in the beginning, and I think more so than the impossible situation you are implying it supports. "darkest hour is just before dawn" this implies hope.

Of course I see where you are coming from and I guess this is the reason I wrote my OP in the first place. But don’t you see some of my reasoning on how the final scene goes against how S2 was portrayed up until then? Can you explain why she seems now as the new S1 and not her true personality whomever that is? At the resort she never seemed to accept the role of S1... why now? Immediate love? A wish to live out the rest of her life as a fake? I don't get it and I don't see S2 as a weak person to play by those rules like a slave to expectations... rules she already broke and rebelled against while at the resort. Why did this S2 seem to have a change of heart?

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] TxMike 10 years ago

It seemed to me that S1 had become disenchanted with E1's behavior during the stay, she was falling out of love with him and didn't want to resume her life with him. At least that is the way I interpreted it, and she would rather stay with E2 with an unknown future so she let S2 go home with E1 without speaking up.

Regarding the "light smiles" I alluded to, after the movie ended and I was unsure what really happened, I went back to see if I could pick out any differences between S1 and S2. The only thing I could discern were the differences in facial expressions and by that it appeared to me that S2 was the one who smiled a little smile then went with him.

That interpretation would hinge on the actrees doing a faithful job of portraying each slightly differently.

However in this kind of story each viewer can have a satisfying viewing experience with either interpretation. Mine is that E1 went home with S2.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] hal-9010 10 years ago

It seemed to me that S1 had become disenchanted with E1's behavior during the stay, she was falling out of love with him and didn't want to resume her life with him.

Notice how she seem to eat it in when E1 gives his heartfelt speech, just moments before E2 says "*beep* you all". She smiles there too. From my point of view she is won back right then and there...

Anyway, I agree; each to our own. To me the whole story only makes sense if S1 is the one that got out.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] TxMike 10 years ago

" To me the whole story only makes sense if S1 is the one that got out. "

And I don't believe they would write and film the story with that in mind because if they did then what's the point? To have him unwittingly come back with a different wife makes a better story. At least to my sensibilities. More "twilight zone-ish". 

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] hal-9010 10 years ago

if they did then what's the point?

the point is basically a love story, not far from the lyrics in that song or the dang title of the movie.

"twilight zone-ish" is all good but even twilight episodes makes sense on their own terms. And to have S2 now willingly impersonate S1 after she gains her freedom , when she never did prior, makes little to me - even when zone-ish is considered. Albeit, I agree that your spin makes it a more exciting story.😃 (although in such a case I do not think they told it very well)

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] TxMike 10 years ago

Rarely do different interpretations of the same movie have such a civil and interesting exchange. Thanks. 

BTW, I came across this article, very interesting reading, including all the comments of others who read it. http://taylorholmes.com/2014/10/07/the-one-i-love-reviewed-and-explained/

(He uses the word "penultimate" a couple of times, incorrectly, but we will excuse that I suppose.) 

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] hal-9010 10 years ago

Right back at you. And great article btw. I just commented with a version of my OP there too, so at least for now it is the penultimate comment :-)

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] TxMike 10 years ago

You do know 'penultimate' means 'next to last.' I.e. the 'ultimate comment' is the last one.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

[–] hal-9010 10 years ago

The ultimate comment should read, "yes you are right" so I would rather have the penultimate one :-)... but true, I used it incorrectly above. Cheers

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] baptist-anne 9 years ago

And now here I am saying you're wrong :D

I really think it was S2 because S1 would never have smiled after E2 died (or was hurt so bad). She probably was still angry at E1 for betraying her and she wasn't aware of the crazy rules about leaving until like five minutes ago and she clearly wasn't *really* convinced about the whole theory.

And I also think the little smiles thing is correct, S2 was too sweet and she always smiled. And you'll see that the left Sophie was smiling, while the right Sophie was not and she looked baffled and upset.

You said in the last scene E1 was talking about something that happened in the past, but I think he was telling her how she slept that night: tightly wrapped in all the blankets, probably the way she never sleeps. Because she is S2.

I rest my case.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

S1 would never have smiled after E2 died

But why not? We know S2 was in love with E2 also - or at least she says she is. The smile we see is not because of E2 hitting his head (he did not die) but because S1 finally felt a breakthrough after E1's heartfelt speech and was standing at the doorstep to the rest of her life. Remember she clearly moved by E1's speech - she smiles when he delivered it. And perhaps this was also the reason E2 then promptly says; "F U all" and runs as he then realized S1 was lost.

S2 was too sweet and she always smiled.

Au contraire, I remember her as a bit of proone once she was in her own character and in her own mindset.

while the right Sophie was not and she looked baffled and upset.

She looked down not showing much emotions - not unlike how S2 was through the rest of the movie. She knew the others were about to leave, and she accepted this. I doubt S1 would simply see it like this - especially after how she reacted to E1's speech just moments before plus why would she stay with a guy who had just showed his true self to not care about her, and accept to loose the guy she really knows and who through all they stay showed he truly cared for her... and only her?

You said in the last scene E1 was talking about something that happened in the past, but I think he was telling her how she slept that night: tightly wrapped in all the blankets, probably the way she never sleeps. Because she is S2.

That is a very good point. If so it changes things. I disagree this is so, but frankly I cannot remember. Need the rewatch :-)

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] aesthete289 9 years ago

You said in the last scene E1 was talking about something that happened in the past, but I think he was telling her how she slept that night: tightly wrapped in all the blankets, probably the way she never sleeps. Because she is S2.
That is a very good point. If so it changes things. I disagree this is so, but frankly I cannot remember. Need the rewatch :-)

It does, in fact, seem to be what happened the night before and not a past experience. Even so, why exactly does it change things? She just happened to hog all the blankets one night and he was just telling her that. It could happen to any of us any day. It seriously does not seem enough to conclude that he ended up with S2.

I think the arguments towards the woman he ended up with being S1 are far more convincing than those towards the woman being S2.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

Yes I agree, and perhaps this even shows stronger how Sophie also had been though a change and had perhaps learned to enjoy life more or differently, and to be more strong and independent. Anyway, her very childlike reaction to the story is nearer the kinder soul we sometimes saw from S1 earlier, however never from S2. So, as I may have misunderstood this scene at first, I agree, it changes little to my conclusion.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] aesthete289 9 years ago

I also strongly believe that E1 ended up with S1. The only problem is with his facial expression after the bacon conversation. His expression does not do justice to the idea of their mutual reconciliation.

Then again, maybe he was just amazed to the core at Sophie willing to change herself so much that she offered to cook him bacon. The expression seems appropriate if we choose to look at it that way.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

The film makers put that final facial expression in to mess with us and it worked. Without this facial expression I doubt we would still talk about it here so many years after. And I doubt I would have seen it as many times as I have.

Anyway, perhaps this facial expression is actually telling us that Ethan then realized that the whole insane and awful retreat experience actually had worked and impacted them both in a positive way. Until then he considered the whole thing as plain wrong. Perhaps he sort of acknowledged that Sam Malone's wacky experiment has borne fruit and was what the "the doctor ordered".... such a realization should be expressed in a set of mixed emotions.

... Or perhaps the expression is his wonder how Sophie had changed too, as you say.

... Or perhaps the expression tell us he realized he escaped with the wrong Sophie (which his subsequent acceptance then is totally against the Ethan we had gotten to know)

... Or perhaps he did not really want bacon that morning ;-)

All possible explanations. Whatever might have happened in the mind of Ethan at that moment is really impossible to know. I think the truth can only be found in analyzing the two Sophie and their motivations, and to me that conclusion is crystal clear.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] aesthete289 9 years ago

I totally agree with you saying that S1 wanted her relationship with E1 to improve. Nevertheless, there is no denying that it could be S2 E1 ended up with. I think the brilliance of the movie is that both the parties i.e. skeptics and romantics (I belong to the latter.) can choose to interpret it their way and be happy. There is room for both the possibilities.

(Edit posted)

[–] aesthete289 9 years ago

I think he was telling her how she slept that night: tightly wrapped in all the blankets, probably the way she never sleeps. Because she is S2.

How can you say that it's "probably the way she never sleeps"? Is that really enough to conclude that he ended up with S2? That 'grand theft covers' thing could happen to any of us on a good day.

The arguments towards S1 being the one who cooks bacon at the end are more convincing.

[–] julienroux-117-612151 10 years ago

Well I believe it is S1 because she now is ok with making som bacon to E1 because she just accepts him as he is and understands that there is no need trying to change him.

That is also what's great with this movie. It makes you think it could be S2 because of the bacon but the whole result of this week-end is really that S1 makes bacon to Ethan now!

[–] matts82173 9 years ago

I think it's more interesting to think that the real Sophie decided to stay with the fake Ethan and she LET the fake Sophie go home with the real Ethan.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

Indeed it is. But the last Sophie we see playing lovingly in the bed is completely out of character to the S2 we got to know during the movie and so this demands an explanation?

My explanation is that she acts like S1 because it is S1. What is your explanation?

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] MasterHit 9 years ago

It is S2 at the end

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

Care to elaborate why you think the OP is wrong?
___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] keithw1975 9 years ago

After reading the comments, I now think that it was S1 at the end. I say this, because of the way S2 had talked about wanting to stay with EE two, and then the way she just stared at E2 as he lay on the ground. At that moment when she is staring at him lying on the ground, she just has a look like nothing else in the world matters. she is only focused on the two of them staying there. Of course I guess you could also argue that it was S1 looking at E2 lying on the ground but my gut tells me that isn't what happened. I am about 70% sure it was S1 at the end. Also at the end she made the comment how does Bacon and eggs sound, making me think she was showing that she was trying to change and not just expecting him to change.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

Yes, the last scene shows us that not only did E1 change and improve, but too S1.

And besides, if it was S1 standing there looking emotionless at E2 laying on the ground, it goes against the otherwise quite emotional nature she had had through most of the movie and also it totally demolishes his last speech or breakthrough that seemed to makes the whole difference. For the movie to make any sense it simply has to be S1 in the end... beside her bacon thing, everything else supports it being S1. And if thought about a bit, evne the Bacon thing supports this too.

The lesson you may ask? Well, it seem to me that true love has nothing to do with how we act, but everything to do with how we feel. And their feelings were ignited at the getaway.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] estistuk 9 years ago

I read a lot of reviews and they all seem to ignore the beginning of and, consistencies in, the film. There is a clear theme that Ethan wants to fix his marriage while Sophie is very bitter about everything. It is a consistent theme throughout the film, from them playing notes on the piano (where she plays a low note and the therapist suggests that a higher note would be more in tune) to where she is more interested in her being happy by staying than she is about the happiness of their relationship. When the therapist hands over the leaflet, to me this suggests again that its a test of who is willing to try the hardest to fix things and be happy with their partner. Ethan takes the leaflet so this indicates that he's again more positive about the entire exercise than Sophie. There is this underlying tone about negative and positive. You can clearly see this contrast throughout the film and how it associates with happiness and desires.

Now the entire version 1 and 2 I don't think is even necessary but it does make things clearer. The previous couples visiting the cabin take on the identity of the new couple to come. I believe that this is because the people that are forced to stay still have not changed - whilst the person that gets to leave has changed (i.e. loose the priority of self interest). Both Ethan 2 and Sophie 1 are acting out their self interest. Ethan 2 mainly just wants to get out and Sophie 1 wants to stay there with the person she is infactuated by and "be happy" in a situation that is not even real. If you combine this with the therapist being involved in changing the people who have to stay to take on the identity of the people that are going to visit, it would explain that pictures are going to be made and that the picture where Ethan says it wasn't made with him, that it is Ethan 2 and Sophie 1. Presumably because one of them is now worthy of leaving whilst the other is bound to stay. Or maybe they are even both worthy of leaving - it is not fully clear how this works. One thing is clear though, eventually everyone will be leaving in a happy relationship because it makes people change and presumably good people don't have to change but get a partner that is actually in tune.

So it would be self-explanatory that it is Sophie 2 who leaves with Ethan in the end. It is her who is all the smiles throughout the film, when she claims she still loves Ethan 2 (she did really love him once, just like Sophie 1 loves Ethan 2 now) and things - her body language is so obviously suggesting that she is lying (shaking no with her head which contradicts what she is saying, people that speak the truth have body language that confirms that they are saying) that you can see where the movie is heading. I do believe their original intensions were to drive a wedge and leave the place together. I think this is why Sophie2 deleted the folder on the computer because she feels betrayed and has realised that Ethan 2 does not really love her as much as she likes to believe - particularly because he slept with Sophie 1.

When Ethan has to choose on the basis of his gut feel, he choses Sophie 2, she seems more honest, is smiling, in tune with Ethan now and wants to go with him (presumably be his wife as well?) starting her new life (don't forget that she was miserable in her old one which is why she went to the therapist in the first place with her other half).

Sophie 1 does what she wanted to do the entire film. Stay at the house with Ethan 2. Which is why she doesn't do or say anything, and leaves Ethan to believe that he actually left with her. The expressions on her face are consistent with how she behaves throughout the film, and the way she looks at Ethan at times. For her her time with Ethan 1 is just over and she wants to live a bit of a dream for a while.

When Ethan and Sophie 2 visit the therapist and he is not there but the piano is there, I think this symbolises that his work is done for the two of them. They are now in tune. His work will continue on the ones that are still at the cabin. Transforming them in the next couple.

So with regards to the ending - the entire film Ethan has been head on with reality. He directly confronts and speaks his mind about what bothers him about the situation. When Sophie 2 mentions the bacon (this is her just being honest - she could have kept it a secret), there is the realisation that its not his Sophie. You see him thinking for a bit and I think he comes to the conclusion that a) Sophie 1 didn't want to go with him and b) He's actually quite happy with Sophie 2. c) He actually chose her over the real Sohpie. In his words, they can just be the way they want to be.

So he accepts that the reset button has been reset (it was a very interesting phrase the therapist used, i.e. it is not working, we need to start again with a different approach kind of thing) and it being a fresh start for the both of them. So he gets up and says he's coming.

That's my take on things. I did study the film and played several key scenes a few times :) Great film.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

Interesting comment and analyse. Obviously I disagree and allow me to comment.

... It is a consistent theme throughout the film, from them playing notes on the piano (where she plays a low note and the therapist suggests that a higher note would be more in tune) to where she is more interested in her being happy by staying than she is about the happiness of their relationship..

I disagree. I cannot see how you can deduce this so clearly: She was at a point in her life where she was about to give up on them. He was at a point in his life where he wanted to fight for them. This much we can agree on. But she was after all still in love with what they once had. She was still in love with their previous ways. He on the other hand had realized they needed to find the road ahead for happiness. She was in a way stuck in her fantasy of how the old Ethan was.

I think this was the point of the pool story and in a sense also the piano. It is different than what you write, I think.

When the therapist hands over the leaflet, to me this suggests again that its a test of who is willing to try the hardest to fix things and be happy with their partner.

Or simply showing us that he in fact is the main force towards changing... either case, it really proves little. It shows us that they have two different perspectives and this was Sam Malone's challenge. The final bacon moment showed us that she too had changed and to get to this revelation she needed the dream of the perfect old Ethan (aka E2) to shatter, which happened in the end. Voila.

There is this underlying tone about negative and positive. You can clearly see this contrast throughout the film and how it associates with happiness and desires.

I rather say that there is an underlying sense that one is trying harder than the other. One is stuck and one is looking ahead. Not necessarily the dark side vs. the light side, but rather that someone is looking for change. If both were looking in the same direction, we would have no real challenge... it is the underlying tone of any classic relationship in trouble, I believe.

Both Ethan 2 and Sophie 1 are acting out their self interest. Ethan 2 mainly just wants to get out and Sophie 1 wants to stay there with the person she is infactuated by and "be happy" in a situation that is not even real.

S1 never fell for who E2 actually was. He was constantly playing his part of a better and improved Ethan until the very end. S1 actually fell for E1 – or rather how she dreamed E1 would or could be. Even when she succumbs hard to E2’s charm it is when he tells her those longing words about how and why E1 was unfaithful back in the day. And S1 knew E2 was not E1 at this time and yet this is what really swept her feet.

What finally won her was a story about and emotions connected entirely to E1. She made love with E2 two times and both times were because of E1: The first time she simply believed it was her old chubby and was none the wiser of the whole setup. The second time is when E2 gives her those longing beautiful words associated to E1. S1 was in fact all the time smitten by Ethan, perhaps not his latest ways, but always for the hope or dream she had of him... and never this other guy, whoever he was. IMO the final speech convinced her that E1 got his breakthrough and her facial expression of relief and joy at those moments convinced me she finally saw how she got her husband back and also how E2 was a mere reflection of him (hint: see DVD cover). Otherwise, I dare say, she is unbelievably naive.

No, S1 wanted to love E1 how she remembered him. She finally knows that it was not because of a pool stunt back in the day. It was because of who he was and is.

The one S1 loves is E1. The one E1 loves is S1.

it would explain that pictures are going to be made and that the picture where Ethan says it wasn't made with him, that it is Ethan 2 and Sophie 1.

How so? A picture from the future? You lost me.

One thing is clear though, eventually everyone will be leaving in a happy relationship because it makes people change and presumably good people don't have to change but get a partner that is actually in tune.

Sounds very doomy to me that this place then basically is a forced dating app with only one of each sex. Anyway, it is not so clear to me.

In this case in this movie, S1 and E1 figured out that they were being played and so the charade was up. Sam Malone left his office for this reason. I do not think the couple ever were meant to meet their opponents. And I do not think the couple is meant to take over the life of the other couple, as it showed E2 tried to do by getting intel etc. from E1's family.

So it would be self-explanatory that it is Sophie 2 who leaves with Ethan in the end. It is her who is all the smiles throughout the film

She played her part as almost a Stepford wife would; few to no emotions and basically very superficial in her conduct. Even when she was outed by Ethan she seemed very dethatched or unvested. The only time we see her true persona, or rather gimps of it, is when she calls S1 out on her bull$hit in the kitchen and also a little bit after she tricks E2 to confess part of his game with her and S1.

In all other scenes she is like a cold hearted machine, borderline bitchy and certainly superficial. S1 on the other had seemed to open and almost act as though she was as school girl while at the resort. It was S1 who was all the smiles throughout the film, not S2.

When Ethan has to choose on the basis of his gut feel, he choses Sophie 2, she seems more honest, is smiling, in tune with Ethan now and wants to go with him (presumably be his wife as well?) starting her new life (don't forget that she was miserable in her old one which is why she went to the therapist in the first place with her other half).

Au contraire to the S2 I saw. She says how she loves the fool of E2 and would rather stay with him than to let S1 take him... of course, you must then think she is lying or that she changed her mind. For some reason that I cannot see in your arguments. We will never know. But whatever that may be, I am quite sure her motivation was never to take over S1’s life and be with E1 for the rest of her life living it out as a fake. Which the movie then implies, doesn’t it?

It simply goes against the S2 we are presented for. She showed no love or any interests towards E1 or who E1 was, never – not once. Her interest and focus was always on E2 and to breakup what was happening between E2 and S1. She is a no-nonsense kind of gal. So when the ending supposedly reduces her to a blabbering fake shadow of someone else entirely, I think it actually doesn’t.

For her her time with Ethan 1 is just over and she wants to live a bit of a dream for a while.

but what dream... ? To be someone else? to live someone else's life?, to be with someone you hardly know and never expressed any interest towards??? I think not. Not the S2 we were introduced to. But, is she as you say... then indeed. I just see no evidence in the movie for this. Not even a grain of salt.

When Sophie 2 mentions the bacon (this is her just being honest - she could have kept it a secret), there is the realisation that its not his Sophie. You see him thinking for a bit and I think he comes to the conclusion that a) Sophie 1 didn't want to go with him and b) He's actually quite happy with Sophie 2. c) He actually chose her over the real Sohpie. In his words, they can just be the way they want to be.

The movies shows us an E1 that is determined to be with S1 and not once in any form whatsoever, does he look at this other woman, whoever she may be. And S2, imo, only ever shows interests towards E2. But the bacon thing is indeed the pickle. It can be explained either way and imo both explanations have their merits. However, fundamentally it comes down to their motives; what really drives them and what are their goals?!?

E1 wanted S1 and wanted to save their marriage.

It seems fairly obvious that S1 seeks bliss in some form and this she can find from a charming E2 or a charming E1 for that sake. When she "mistakenly" slept with E1, it showed us that her motivation was simply to feel loved, and imo specifically by her dream of E1.

E2 wanted to get out. Pure and simple. He cared for no one except himself.

However, S2 is a bit of a mystery to me. She wants out but on several occasions she says she loves E2 enough to never let him go, plus this was what she pretty much worked for through the whole movie... she was never trying to really seduce E1.... so at least if it is her that escaped, it is a bit contradictory to what the movie tells us.

So what is her motivation then? I cannot buy that she wanted to takeover the life of S1 or that she wanted to be E2 until death. The movie itself contradicts this.

In the end all of them got what they wanted (more or less), except E2. Karma is a bitch :)

Also if you take your conclusion one step further: If S2 left, then what is the film teaching us? Basically that all was in vain, his final speech is pointless, their realizations during the movie lost, and that E2 was actually a selfish dick and yet S1 still wanted him... E1 ends up with a girl he does not know, a person that apparently doesn't want him, a person even we the viewers have no real idea about.

The final sweet scene in the bed becomes even more sad, because it is then shrouded in deceit...perhaps all this was the intention of the movie makers, but I feel it wasn't.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] estistuk 9 years ago

I don't necessarily disagree with all the things you are saying. After all you can interpret these things in many different ways. But what you do seem to ignore quite a bit is that there have been couples there before and there will presumably be couples after. These will not all share the exact same circumstances and problems that Sophie and Ethan have faced. So instead of focusing heavily on what is going on with the 4 characters, we could focus on what this place actually is and its purpose.

I think we both agree its about change but like Sophie 2 said, the fastest way to get out is to drive a gap between the couple that comes there and they get stuck and the previous couple can leave. Another spin on it could be that that has actually happened to them - how else would she know? So perhaps it provides a chance to re-unite, find new love, or no change at all and presumably a doom and gloom marriage. Or does the psychiatrist show up again for them?

I've read through my analysis again and it doesn't explain everything but is rather a philosophy and one of the many different interpretations of the movie. That's what makes these movies such a thrill! :) I don't think there is one right answer.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

I don't necessarily disagree with all the things you are saying.

Our observations on S2 is quite the opposite. Where only one can be right ;-)

But what you do seem to ignore quite a bit is that there have been couples there before and there will presumably be couples after. ... ... So instead of focusing heavily on what is going on with the 4 characters, we could focus on what this place actually is and its purpose.

Truth is that I am very conflicted about what this place specifically is. It doesn't change my view on who left in the end though, but it does change the overall spirit of the story. Generally, the movies is very vague and the Resort can be explained in so many ways. This is part why I avoid it and instead focus on what we do know and what we can observe.

I like a more general view on the place as a resort build to fix relationships. How the mechanics works, I do not know. I have read many interesting interpretations of which several say E2 and S2 are actually Robots or Aliens or Angles designed to provoke what we see unfold. I do not buy this, but I see how it may fit.

Is it in fact several couples or is it the same “couple” that Sam Malone changes appearance on after each visit? ... and so the chapter we see is when E2 went out of game protocol? I like that version because the purpose then becomes clear to me - E2 and S2 are mere tools to make the troubled couple rekindle.... but I have nothing to back this up on. I just like it and it makes sense to me.

Sophie 2 said, the fastest way to get out is to drive a gap between the couple that comes there and they get stuck and the previous couple can leave.

But for what purpose? Is she lying? How does this make sense? I understand an idea that the best functioning couple can escape, but again it reduces the resort to a dating app with no real options, or rather playground like the Colosseum.... it doesn’t make sense to me. Is it just couples being thrown to the lions? Perhaps, but its then obvious lack of sophistication is a shame, imo....

... Or is it a Resort fundamentally designed to fix couples? This, I like. but how does it work?

I feel confident in explaining who left in the end.... ask me to explain the Resort and I am a lost.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] lathe-of-heaven 9 years ago

Yes, you are quite right... 

All these other people on this thread and others who insist on the opposite outcome, ALL OF THEM use what I feel is superficial reasoning that is VERY limited to one or two things that they are SURE means that the outcome is how they think it is.

You though, along with one other person here (although I think you catch a few more details) are EXTREMELY thorough and you DON'T get all hung up on 'smiles' or one or two details. What you explained, to me anyway, FULLY fits EVERYTHING in the story and I feel very strongly that you are completely right.

Look guys, it is very simple... The film makers CLEARLY show that E2 is a total dick (well 'Artificial Dick' as you said, which I guess makes him a Dildo...) Anyway, what are we the audience then supposed to think about S1 after showing what a total selfish dick E2 is...? If these OTHER people are right in their explanation, what...? We are supposed to believe that S1 somehow still BLINDLY loves this idiot...? What the hell is the point of that? And, like you said, the last impassioned speech in the bathroom by E1... What...? Are we just suppose to ignore that and just figure, 'Oh well, that didn't have ANY effect or meaning on S1 at all and she still loves the Dick...???'

RIGHT....

That makes absolutely NO sense at all...

But, YOUR explanation does and is fully consistent with 1) The title of the film 2) the genuine desire of BOTH of them to fix their relationship 3) E1's ABSOLUTE devotion to S1 and his COMPLETE disinterest in S2. and, I guess, hypothetically... 4) the fact that E2 could NOT leave strongly implies that S2 cannot either.

Now, granted, the ending song DOES indeed seem to throw a little confusion into the mix; I do not have a ready answer for that. But, to me, your explanation fits everything and is consistent with both the overall theme of the film and the attitudes of E1 and S1 throughout the movie.

I now have over 7000 films; many of them very rare and OOP. I LOVE to trade. PLEASE ASK! 

[–] plkldf 9 years ago

I'm very surprised there is disagreement. I "knew" it was S2 as soon as S1 dropped to her knees to be beside E2. S1 had "fallen in love" with E2 just as he had fallen in love with her. S2 realized, just before the kiss in the living room, that E2 would never love her, and in any case she *wanted to leave* more than she wanted anything else. S2 had already gone to E1 and said that she could get him out of there, and that she wanted to get out.

I was surprised by the bacon thing, which I don't think is at all ambiguous (hint: it's S2), because I thought, "duh, like we didn't know."

But my wife was less sure, and now it looks like the majority opinion on this thread is that it was S1 who left with E1. No way, Jose, or at least that's my opinion.

Here's what I don't get, and I'll look for a thread on this, or start one: what was in it for the psychologist? What did he gain by making these couples go through this?

Having said that, I thought the film was delightful. I gave it an 8. I wouldn't mind watching it again.

--
GEORGE
And all's fair in love and war?
MRS. BAILEY
[primly] I don't know about war.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

I "knew" it was S2 as soon as S1 dropped to her knees to be beside E2.

You remember wrong. None of them dropped to their knees. In fact when he says; "fuxk you all" and runs both of them shows little interest in catching him. When they walk up to him, they are both just standing there looking down. No "dropping to their knees" kind of thing. To me they express very little affection. However, when E1 and S1 finally leaves in the car we see how S2 is bend over looking at E2, again not in a very emotional way - at least imo.

S2 realized, just before the kiss in the living room, that E2 would never love her, and in any case she *wanted to leave* more than she wanted anything else.

IMO this goes against what the movie actually tells us. S2 does everything she can in the end to bring S1 and E1 together. She is not trying at any point in the movie to woo E2. Her expressed interests was only ever to E2. Onesided for sure, as E2 seemed to love himself more than anyone else really.

what was in it for the psychologist? What did he gain by making these couples go through this?

I suppose the psychologist ultimately has this magic place that really pushes the couples to their limits and is a sort of a fix it or kill it kind of solution.

In my version of the outcome he actually cured the couple. The couple leaving had their breakthrough and fell back in love and mutual appreciation and respect. In your version, he got nothing.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] ATMmachine 9 years ago

I dont really remember correctly but wasnt the conditions for E2 and S2 leaving, that they were supposed to leave together and they could only leave when S1 or E1 fell in love with S2 or E2, which they clearly didnt.

E1 wanted to leave with S1! If it was S2 that he accidently left with, then S2 would have hit the wall just like E2 did.

So E1 left with S1.

I might remeber the whole "conditions" for leaving wrong though...

[–] plkldf 9 years ago

Check out Sophie's hair from the time they are in the car....

--
GEORGE
And all's fair in love and war?
MRS. BAILEY
[primly] I don't know about war.

[–] rubirub 9 years ago

Everybody is talking about who he left with, etc., but I think it's more interesting to talk about the metaphor or the movie, the topics it wants to talk about... or even if everything was an illusion or something like that.

Anyway, both Ethan were *beep* to Sophie. E2 showed he can be so much more seductive and nice, but when he desperately tried to escape he showed his true colors, didn't he?

[–] Planet-38 9 years ago

Interesting (and civilized) discussion, but, since there is no "real" answer, I think we can all agree to disagree on the combinations in the outcome. While I vote for E1 + S1, I can see how the "bacon issue" would muddy the water. I agree with the OP on all points, because I think S1 (initially) truly wanted her marriage to work and S2 did state that she would rather stay there with E2 than let him leave with S1, plus she never showed any real interest in E1 so why go with him.

But, enough of that. I am posting this to pose a question.

If, E1 did wind up with S2, then what would be the outcome?

1, E1 confronts S2 and lets her know he knows she is not his wife. S2 admits to the deception and they agree to go on as if they are truly married.

I don't see this happening because E1 told S1 that he did not want a copy of her, he wanted her.

2. E1 confronts S2 and lets her know he knows she is not his wife. S2 admits to the deception and they part and E1 tries to get S1 back.

Possible

3. E1 confronts S2 and lets her know he knows she is not his wife. S2 swears this is not the case. E1 always has that doubt in his head.

Possible

4. E1 never confronts S2 preferring not to know, because then he would have to acknowledge to himself that S! chose E2 over him.

Possible

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

3 is interesting from the mere chilling perspective, but I think not en par with the character. S2 seem to be a no-nonsense kind of gal and I simply find it very hard to see her as a push over like that. I mean to live her life out as an impostor. Plus nothing in her behavior we saw indicates to me she had any interests in E1 or S1 for that matter, so why would she want to impose if she could go about and do her own thing? I'd say 3 is not a real possibility.

of course another version is of 3 is that perhaps it IS S1, and still E1 will have that wonder deep in his belly if she is. Eerie twist, and very depressing but then possible imo.

4 is perhaps possible but still I would say not en par with the Ethan we get to know and watch evolve through the movie. He was hell bent on the real S1 and true 4 means she chose E2 at the moment of truth but she already chose him while on the farm several times and that only seemed to fuel E1 more...

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] Planet-38 9 years ago

"of course another version is of 3 is that perhaps it IS S1, and still E1 will have that wonder deep in his belly if she is. Eerie twist, and very depressing but then possible imo."

I knew there was a scenario I was leaving out/forgetting. :-)

[–] bballkyle 9 years ago

I totally agree with you OP, I just wanted to add a couple things I've noticed for some extra credibility on this theory. I just watched the movie and was intrigued to who people thought went home with E1. At first I thought it was S2 but thinking about it a little more a reading your thoughts, I quickly changed my opinion on that.

1. For one thing, there was a scene later where S1 showed concern for E1. She wanted to make sure he was alright after kicking him out the previous night, so even at this point she still cares about him.

2. I had to revisit the scene for this. After E2 say F U to everyone and runs out, you'll notice S1 is furthest in the room while S2 is close to the door. The scene then cuts and you see them outside afterwards. This is the moment the mix up happens because of the scene cut. However you can infer at this point that S1 is left and S2 is on the right. I infer this because the one on the left asks, "what happens if he doesn't catch him in time" (or something like that) to the one on the right. Why would S2 ask that question? She wouldn't. S2 would know that S1 would not know the answer to that. S1 would ask the question believing S2 might know. Also, it would only make sense that the one on the left would would stay on the left while the one on the right would stay on the right while they run up to the scene. Why would they just switch sides? So ultimately E1 chose the one the left in this scene which must have been S1 based on this.