Notice all the negative reviews are from jealous men? - Fifty Shades of Grey (2015) Discussion

[–] lyrebon 9 years ago

I think the movie is trash because it promotes, irresponsibly, an abusive relationship as BDSM. I find it dangerous when people are capable of going home and practising what they saw in the film with no regard for safety and rules. BDSM can be very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

Grey isn't a man to be envious of, he's a sociopath. He engages in abusive behaviour similar to how rapists assault women to feel empowered. He's selfish and does irresponsible and disturbing things like tracking Anna's phone and turning up unannounced even after being told to stay away, then proceeding to "rape" Anna when she said no. Those are not endearing, charming, or the kind of behaviour that is condoned on the BDSM scene. It'd get you blacklisted from events. It's psychotic.

But of course, the writers will want to put a positive spin on this, that he is the greatest guy in existence when really what I see is a mentally ill man struggling with crippling insecurity and delusions of inferiority. A man who has little regard for the feelings of others.

You can be as powerful and as rich as you want, but if you're Christian Grey I wouldn't envy someone so emotionally closed off and mentally unstable as he.

On the other hand I like Harvey Specter (Suits). He's arrogant and ego-centric but he's compassionate even when he comes across as ruthless. He cares about people and fights for them. You can't say I'm jealous of riches and power and looks because I hate Grey but adore Harvey.

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lyrebon 9 years ago

I'm a part of the BDSM community. 50 Shades is a source of constant mockery amongst us xD

His idea of "play" is laughably casual compared to what happens on the scene. I've bled quite a few times from hard paddles, floggers, scratching, biting and knife play. Though everything we do we do with people we trust and have clear limitations and rules. We discuss everything before playing. Grey does absolutely none of this and just demands Anna blindly trust him for no other reason than "because you'll enjoy it".

If someone seriously acted like Grey at the events he'd be called out on it and most likely ostracised. At the least he'd be heavily criticized. Doms respect their subs and look after them, Grey doesn't.

I'm a submissive myself, but I have control over the scene. I can stop it at any time (if my dom is trustworthy and respects me when I say "red" or my "yellow" codeword (red is to stop play completely, yellow is to ease up on what you're doing but continue), hence why I would never let someone I don't trust to restrain or hit me in any way).

Harvey can take me any day.

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[–] LetsDriveSomewhere 9 years ago

He's selfish and does irresponsible and disturbing things like tracking Anna's phone and turning up unannounced even after being told to stay away, then proceeding to "rape" Anna when she said no. Those are not endearing, charming, or the kind of behaviour that is condoned on the BDSM scene.

Are you referring to the book or the movie? In the movie, he did turn up unannounced in Georgia, but he never showed up anywhere after being explicitly told to stay away. When did he rape Ana?

... the writers will want to put a positive spin on this, that he is the greatest guy in existence when really what I see is a mentally ill man struggling with crippling insecurity and delusions of inferiority.

OK, this is why I don't understand the "BDSM community's" disdain for this movie. Does the story of an insecure, delusional, mentally ill man who considers himself a "dominant" and acts out in inappropriate ways have to be tied to an entire community? Is it hard to believe that there are people who consider themselves into BDSM and also happen to have really dysfunctional relationships? I am not part of the "BDSM community," but I have known some people who are into it. Some of them were severely emotionally stunted and used their "role" as a wall that they hid behind. Others were totally normal and well-adjusted. Who is to say? 

You think I'd speak for you? I don't even know your language.

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[–] lyrebon 9 years ago

Are you referring to the book or the movie? In the movie, he did turn up unannounced in Georgia, but he never showed up anywhere after being explicitly told to stay away. When did he rape Ana?

The film is relatively faithful to the book.

http://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/50-shades-of-grey-chapter-20-in-which.html

Final chapter, she says no and he tells her he's going to do it anyway and that she "deserves it" (punishment through sex), and he's only doing it for his own pleasure. That is rape.

OK, this is why I don't understand the "BDSM community's" disdain for this movie. Does the story of an insecure, delusional, mentally ill man who considers himself a "dominant" and acts out in inappropriate ways have to be tied to an entire community?

When naive people believe this is what BDSM is and go practice it by replicating what they see in the film it ties itself to the community. When people who want to practice BDSM think the abuse and ego-centric power-trip is a part of the scene, then yes, it reflects badly on the BDSM community, especially when someone gets injured or thinks this is what happens in BDSM without actually researching it. The film and book actively promote its contents as BDSM. It's not, it's a story oblivious to its own abuse.

Is it hard to believe that there are people who consider themselves into BDSM and also happen to have really dysfunctional relationships?

Typically that's to do with their relationship, not their involvement in BDSM. Within the community it's generally advised not to play or do a scene when you're having problems. Dysfunctional relationships aren't exclusive to the BDSM community.

I am not part of the "BDSM community," but I have known some people who are into it. Some of them were severely emotionally stunted and used their "role" as a wall that they hid behind. Others were totally normal and well-adjusted. Who is to say?

You just made a sweeping generalization about a group that could be applied to almost any grouping of people. Those that use their status as a dom to handle their own problems are often frowned upon.

As a newcomer to events I was warned to avoid certain people and I've been on the scene long enough to know for myself who I wouldn't trust to play with. Nobody in the community is perfect, but nobody outside of it is either. We all have our flaws and, yes, some of us have depression and anxiety and other disorders, but we don't take it out on others. We know better. Your relationships and lifestyle can be healthy even when you have mental health issues.

Grey is an abusive sociopath. His type aren't particular welcomed in the community. In fact, an incident earlier this year ended up involving the police because people realised a woman was being abused, emotionally and physically, by her dom. Suffice to say he's banned from events when he gets out of jail. The BDSM community are really good at looking after each other, and if any Christian Grey showed up to an event he'd quickly be verbally demolished for his views.

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[–] LetsDriveSomewhere 9 years ago

I didn't ask what rape was, I asked when Christian raped Ana. If the film is relatively faithful to the book, then why did the movie not include this rape scene? Sorry, but I'm just not into people coming to IMDb criticizing the book when the book and movie are two totally different entities. A lot of people who have read the book will most likely watch the movie, but many people who watch the movie will never read the books. I hope you understand the discrepancy in combining the two.

The point I'm making, and continue to make, is that neither the movie nor book "are BDSM." This is a story about a woman who falls for a man who is into certain elements of BDSM due to emotional issues from his traumatizing past. They develop a relationship that changes them both. That is the STORY, and when people from the "BDSM community" choose only to focus on the uncomfortable elements that have been presented in connection to BDSM, they have sidetracked from the story to serve their agenda. People fall into all kinds of perverted situations inadvertently and it's no different with Ana or Christian. Understand that his interpretation of BDSM has probably also been perverted because of the abuse he has endured.

If you look at this without using the "BDSM community" lens, you might appreciate how relatable this story really is to a multitude of people. Yes, I made generalizations. That is my entire point. People fall into dysfunctional relationships all the time. People try to change each other all the time. People find themselves changed by others all the time. Of course this can be applied to any grouping of people and I don't see any reason why a story of a man who considers himself a dominant deserves to be avoided. I find it very believable as I have known quite a few highly dysfunctional people who considered themselves into dominance and submission. Many years ago, an older man once tried to seduce me into being his dominant. I'm not part of the community, but he definitely was. It's pretty hilarious to me now, thinking back on it, but at the time I did not find it very funny. I'm pretty sure he's still attending events to this day. Pretty sure he's still paying dominatrixes to wrap him in Saran Wrap. Pretty sure he's got some dom out there strapping him down and forcing him to lick her boots. I'm also pretty sure that he's still depressed, living a double life, and emotionally traumatized by the things his abusive mother did to him during his childhood.

If people take these books or this movie and allow it to lead them down an abusive or unfulfilling path, then that is their choice. There are a lot of screwy books and movies out there for people to use to navigate them through life. You can scream, "No, no, no! That's not BDSM!" all you want, but, clearly, they were attracted to something in the books and/or movie, and they are accountable for their own actions. We can't control everybody.

You think I'd speak for you? I don't even know your language.

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[–] lyrebon 9 years ago

I didn't ask what rape was, I asked when Christian raped Ana.

I just told you.

https://medium.com/@davidbunce/fifty-shades-of-grey-and-george-orwell-8dd85db54b87#.ongvfd4rv

Under the heading Consent? What consent?

And here: http://www.al.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/02/lines_from_50_shades_of_grey_t.html

If the film is relatively faithful to the book, then why did the movie not include this rape scene?

Probably because even the writers for the film realized it was rape and just a bit too much (sarcasm).

Sorry, but I'm just not into people coming to IMDb criticizing the book when the book and movie are two totally different entities. A lot of people who have read the book will most likely watch the movie, but many people who watch the movie will never read the books. I hope you understand the discrepancy in combining the two.

They're the same thing. Change a few lines, a few scenes, remove this and add that but you still have the same characters, the same plot, the same series of events. At its heart, Christian is still a deeply troubled and insecure man who takes his perceived shortcomings out on a woman by abusing her emotionally and physically. Their relationship isn't healthy and he's dangerous.

The point I'm making, and continue to make, is that neither the movie nor book "are BDSM."

The elements of BDSM in the book and movie are enough to convince people that is what BDSM is. BDSM is largely misunderstand as it is; a mainstream novel and movie that equates BDSM with emotional and physical abuse only affirms false conceptions of what submission, bondage and discipline are. It doesn't have to be the main focus to be a theme and EL James intentionally included BDSM (inaccurately) as a theme in her work.

This is a story about a woman who falls for a man who is into certain elements of BDSM due to emotional issues from his traumatizing past

See above.

That is the STORY, and when people from the "BDSM community" choose only to focus on the uncomfortable elements that have been presented in connection to BDSM, they have sidetracked from the story to serve their agenda.

I'm criticizing it as a whole, not purely based on its portrayal of BDSM. Remove the BDSM and this is still about abuse. My main concern is that it proliferates the idea that women are to blame for assaults and rape, that they should feel guilty and ashamed and be taught to want it.

It actively romanticizes domestic abuse.

People fall into all kinds of perverted situations inadvertently and it's no different with Ana or Christian. Understand that his interpretation of BDSM has probably also been perverted because of the abuse he has endured.

That's not how it was written:

I have to ask: where on earth did the sex come from? (The novels tell the story of a young virgin, Anastasia Steele, and how she falls in love with a "very attractive" billionaire CEO, Christian Grey, who is big into nipple clamps and floggers, has a "red room of pain", and makes her sign a weird contract in which she agrees to make full and regular use of her local beauty salon.) "Well, I'd read a few things about BDSM [bondage and discipline, sadism and masochism], and I thought: this is hot!" she says, chirpily. "I thought: what would it be like if you met someone who was into this kind of lifestyle, and you didn't know anything about it?" And did writing about this lifestyle, er, turn her on? "Well, sometimes. But mostly, no. It's all about mechanics: whose hand goes where? I'd phone my husband [Niall Leonard, a screenwriter], who has an office in our back garden, and we'd lie there, fully clothed, just working out the choreography. It was hilarious!"

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/dec/09/el-james-fifty-shades-interview

She fully intended for Grey to be a representative of the community. The BDSM in 50 Shades is what EL James thinks is BDSM, not what Grey interprets it as. She seems to think having "read a few things about BDSM" makes her knowledgeable but she gets even the basic concept of consent wrong.

Sure we could interpret it the way you describe but that wasn't the intent on the author's behalf and we can clearly see from the way the book and the film romanticize his actions, rather than hold them up to a mirror and make you consider if what he's doing is wrong.

If you look at this without using the "BDSM community" lens, you might appreciate how relatable this story really is to a multitude of people. Yes, I made generalizations. That is my entire point. People fall into dysfunctional relationships all the time.

The wider issue, as I've said above, is the permeation of rape and victim blaming in society. 50 Shades contributes to that victim blaming by blaming Ana for not obeying Grey and giving in to his selfish desires.

Take for example when Ana gets drunk and passes out, Grey takes her back to his apartment, undresses her and then sleeps in the same bed as her, all while nobody is questioning why a man as prolific as Grey is taking a strange, passed out girl up to his hotel room. It's seen as normal.

Of course this can be applied to any grouping of people and I don't see any reason why a story of a man who considers himself a dominant deserves to be avoided.

It doesn't, but the issues Grey suffers from aren't treated as such, they're romanticized. The central theme is that Ana thinks she can change him if she loves him enough and obeys him enough. Grey's behaviour is reasoned that it's because he's had a hard life, and Ana should understand that:

He’s such a complicated person. And now I have an insight as to why. A young man deprived of his adolescence, sexually abused by some evil Mrs. Robinson figure…no wonder he’s old before his time. My heart fills with sadness at the thought of what he must have been through.

From the first link above and I'm just going to paste the response to this because it succinctly summarizes what I think:

By portraying Grey in this way, the book removes a lot of the responsibility for his reactions. He isn't a person who has a will they can control, able to choose to abuse or not, but a mere product of his experiences. He isn't responsible for how he treats Ana, the myth goes, and if only she can love him enough, use can repair his broken past and restore him.

I find it very believable as I have known quite a few highly dysfunctional people who considered themselves into dominance and submission. Many years ago, an older man once tried to seduce me into being his dominant. I'm not part of the community, but he definitely was. It's pretty hilarious to me now, thinking back on it, but at the time I did not find it very funny. I'm pretty sure he's still attending events to this day. Pretty sure he's still paying dominatrixes to wrap him in Saran Wrap. Pretty sure he's got some dom out there strapping him down and forcing him to lick her boots. I'm also pretty sure that he's still depressed, living a double life, and emotionally traumatized by the things his abusive mother did to him during his childhood.

And this is exactly the misconceptions and mindset that 50 Shades promotes. You make a lot of suppositions without actually knowing the man or the community he's in. He might have issues but that says nothing of the BDSM community or even his current lifestyle.

If people take these books or this movie and allow it to lead them down an abusive or unfulfilling path, then that is their choice. There are a lot of screwy books and movies out there for people to use to navigate them through life.

You've not read Streetcar Named Desire then? That depicts an abusive relationship that shows the horror and reality of abuse (it ends with a suicide). Even though the book features abuse and the victim (Stella) tries to excuse her abusive husband, ultimately we are actively told that Stella is a delusional and mentally unstable person (as a consequence of the abuse actually).

50 Shades glorifies the same type of abuse. It's not about content or theme, Game of Thrones is a violent and perverse story but it doesn't promote wanton acts of violence, incest and rape (which is frequent) as good, unlike 50 Shades that romanticizes the abuse and blames the victim (Ana).

You can scream, "No, no, no! That's not BDSM!" all you want, but, clearly, they were attracted to something in the books and/or movie, and they are accountable for their own actions. We can't control everybody.

No, but we can educate people.

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[–] activista 9 years ago

@lyrebon

I think the movie is trash because it promotes, irresponsibly, an abusive relationship as BDSM.

I have to agree in some ways. I finally saw the film, and thought it was beautifully shot, and the subject matter handled as tastefully as possible---on other words, it didn't come off like an exploitation film at all, which was the good thing about it. (I also think the fact that it was written and directed by women had a lot to do with that.) That being said, I did have problems with how Ana allowed Grey to just do certain things to her (like when he came to her place after she told him she didn't want to see him for awhile, and then just pulled her down on the bed and did what he did to her, without even bothering to ask her what she wanted) that was disturbing---nothing hot or even attractive about that at all. Plus he was both creepy and creepy-looking at times.

The thing with Grey is that he claimed that he was all into Ana, but it seemed their intimacy was all about him getting what he wanted out of it, and him not really caring about her pleasure at all. Plus his cold,clinical attitude toward the whole matter of sex was kind of a turn off. I feel that Ana should've made it more clear that she wasn't his plaything to do whatever with whenever he chose to do it. And,yeah, his behavior was possessive and controlling as hell---that's not even how a real relationship can work for long, and there was I know from experience that no way in hell should someone be in that kind of relationship,because it's just plain fcked up, and not one you can thrive in---anyone who's in one needs to get the hell out of it as quick as possible. That's why I'm glad what happened at the end went down, because his proclivities were getting in the way of their being together, and Grey was just too fcked up for words anyway.

I have to admit, I didn't think the book was all that----the characters never felt like real people, and even the sex scenes came off as clinical and unfeeling as hell. Seems like it was just the novelty of a BDSM relationship that got people's attention,that's all. But,yeah, Ana and Grey's relationship wasn't healthy at all in some parts, and she finally came to her senses enough to realize that after awhile.

A good example of how the 50 Shades couple could have been together is this story I read in a new anthology called Hot Alphas----it's called "misTaken" by Laurelin McGee, in which a feminist professor falls for a man who's into a little BDSM, but not anywhere near extreme as anything in 50 Shades. She sees it as degrading to women,but after they discuss it, he shows her how giving up some control in the bedroom dosen't mean she has to give up her dignity or her feminist principles simply by doing that. The main point being, he actually respects and cares about her enough to make sure she gets some pleasure out of it,too---without being abusive or hateful toward her in any way, and that it's not just all about him and what he wants----unlike in 50 Shades, where it's all about Grey and his fcked-up issues. Just some food for thought on that subject here.

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[–] augurae 9 years ago

It's not a good movie, nor are they jealous men, it's just you who wish you'd met a billionaire "lover" who would abuse you, which means instead you'll lead a lonely slùt life *beep* around with losers until you get attach to one who will abuse you, then beat you, ending up in a *beep* abusive low-class relation you'll have deserved.

I'll pray to both god and satan that you have this *beep* life and am pretty sure you will, good.

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[–] seahawk3133 9 years ago

Let's face it.....

Majority of men are clueless about good movies to the extent that women are clueless to what makes a good man.

This movie was far from great but clearly not worst movie I've seen. It is basically a "chick flick" that tried to be daring but fell way short. (Secretary was much better at developing the subject)

Worth watching once...

5 / 10

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[–] nogodlover 9 years ago

It's cringeworthy and I'm a girl.

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[–] kittylove15 9 years ago

Im a girl and I thuoght this movie was *beep* boring lol

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[–] starzshine22 9 years ago

Can't believe so many are stressing about the movie and or book. The replies here are just beyond silly. This is a book/movie all in fantasy. No one said this is a play by play of what goes down in this life choice. It's a BOOK. FANTASY. NOT REAL. MADE UP. FAKE.
Good god...relax ! Women like it. So what? Men are jealous? Of course! So what?
It's rare to have a movie or book that is aimed at women only. I don't think the book was well written, but it did hold my intrest. The movie was well done for as much as they could do.
The movie and books have made huge sales SO obviously there is an audience that enjoys it...weather you like it or not. If it's not you'r cup of tea? Then move on...

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[–] Sam-953-169285 9 years ago

That is the type of thing someone would say to justify censorship. You don't want people to express their thoughts.

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[–] DareDevil19991 9 years ago

Bitch please! He wishes he can be half of the man Nick Nolte is.

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[–] Montrac4 9 years ago

Are you *beep* stupid how do you know that all of the negative reviews are from jealous men, what a stupid conclusion to jump to. Yeah all men are jealous of a *beep* fictional character. Smh What a load of horse *beep* This is *beep* and there are more important things in life than money, and for the contrary not everyone wants to be rich.

And it's very ignorant and seems a bit sexist, to jump to that conclusion that all negative reviews are from men. Not everyone has bad tastes in books and movies. Get real. There is no way to tell. By the way I enjoyed this movie and I'm a guy. I enjoyed it because of Dakota Johnson. I applaud her as it obviously wasn't an easy thing to accept this role, knowing all the hate and crap she would get from certain haters who think she's ugly, and not good enough, but I love her, in fact I became a fan.

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[–] Sam-953-169285 9 years ago

Your comments would be more powerful if they did not use things like *beep* and stupid. Some people ignore comments at the same level as the (this) original post is at. If you want to be noticeable then stay above that level.

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[–] StarrKitty 9 years ago

These men are jealous. They will never have the money, looks, power or sex stamina like Christian or the actor playing Christian. So, these men insult the film, the story, the acting. Give the movie a low rating. Say insulting comments like:

"Sitting in my seat at the theatre surrounded by parhetic , horny women giggling. None of these women at the theatre could snag a rich man like him anyways"

Wtf! Like any of you men watching your 20 hours a week of disgusting porn can get any of those women.

Can't us women just have our Christian grey "erotica" without your stupid comments and penis envy?

And if youre a women reading this, before you say I hated the movie too. Im not talking about you, I'm talking about the men.

I'm a woman and you do not speak for me. This is trash. Here's a thought. Maybe some people don't like the movie because they don't like the movie. You're generalizing.

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