A rip-off


Probably the most disgusting depressing dirge of misery to ever hit the screen.
I am more amazed by how the audience continued to sit staring at this nonsense like dumb grazing animals than by Carax's neurosis of putting this miserable ugly guy on screen for almost two hours of boring absurdity. Gratuitous rip-off. Failed art is therapy and that is precisely what Carax accomplished here; and the grazing animals buy into it, after all, they paid for their tickets so they ain't gonna walk out until it's all over.

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Your hate lets us know the film is good.

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Oh really? Then go see it like the other sheep, you'll have a good time.

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"Go see it like the other sheep"

You act like this is some sort of mainstream film that the average stupid sheep would pay money to go see. Let me tell you that it isn't and only pretty hardcore movie buffs will even here of this movie and go see it, and I will be watching this... despite your opinion.

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OK, good luck.

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It's not about luck, but about opinion.

We've met before, haven't we?

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sheep do not watch movies like this. that comment alone invalidates your entire argument

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[deleted]

A black sheep is still a sheep. But I'm curious to see it, although a bit skeptical.

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A black sheep is one who strays from the flock, thus contradicting the analogy.

~.~
I WANT THE TRUTH! http://www.imdb.com/list/ze4EduNaQ-s/

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It's a certain sub-species of sheep he was referring to. The "artsy-fartsy, hepster sheep" in this case. And they certainly do watch cutting edge French cinema and art films.

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I don't understand what you mean by "sheep" ... you mean people who will go see the film? You went to see the film yourself, sheep. It's stunning that someone actually thinks their perception of a film is so important that anyone who disagrees with it is merely sheep. Grow up.

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"Gratitous (sic) rip-off" of what movie, exactly?

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Not of a movie-the movie goer is ripped off by paying money to watch this nonsense. Surealist? it isnt,not at all in the same class as Kaufman or Lynch who Carax tries to imitate.

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Kaufman, Lynch and Carax are not surrealists. Don't use terms you don't understand. Maybe you should just go with "weird" - or, in your case, maybe "stoopid".

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Lynch is not a surrealist?! So what then is he genius, or should I say moron.

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He makes movies with dreamlike visuals, dealing in themes of dreaming, mind and subconcious, sure, but the biggest difference with surrealism is that there is a clear causality in his stories. A logic, a narrative. Just the same kind that you have in Holy Motors. You could consider some of his short films surrealist, I give you that, but then again, pretty much every arthouse director has made some experimental shorts during their career.

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Lynch's movies (mostly) do not have a clear causality. I think that is one of the biggest misunderstandings about his movies. People desperately try to shoehorn a clear and unambiguous plot into movies like Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway. His movies have a logic, but it's a dream logic. So it's closer to surrealism than you think.

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espaços exacerbadamente "democráticos" resultam neste tipo de discussão.

parece que agora, em cada esquina, temos um dono da verdade.

the ownwers of the truth.


Prometo que não abro mais fóruns aqui no imdb.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Hi there! Just thought I'd add my two cents after watching it last night...it was just a little bit incredible. Clearly fits into Carax's oeuvre. For you see that's the interesting thing, despite your nice little claims that Carax tries to imitate Kaufman and Lynch, he does no such thing. He's just being Carax. If that's not good enough for you then great, you have an opinion. I do too, and in my opinion this kicked Synecdoche, New York and Inland Empire (not to mention Rabbits, Jesus Christ...) square in the nuts. HM had a distinct centralized concept which it explored in a fresh and light handed manner, never being too in your face about it until it was necessary. His central character and a number of the individuals he crossed and interacted with mirrored the themes of the film while simultaneously reflecting some of the new aspects of the human condition which have arisen in recent years due to our climbing reliance on changing technologies.

And Christ, come on man, the film was clearly tongue in cheek, like all of Carax's films. The crazy man (a direct and perfect reference to an earlier collaboration) in the graveyard? And the final scene with the limos? Not to mention the chimpanzees...I feel sorry for your prudish cinema going audience, because the few hundred audience members who packed into Melbourne's Forum theatre last night were having a blast, laughing at all of the brilliant self-referential and witty details Carax added to his masterpiece, and the film deserved the ovation it received.

Finally, what the *beep*, who are you to say the film was poor for including a "miserable ugly guy"? This comment made me understand how immature and virginal you are in regards to cinema as a whole. Denis Lavant is a brilliant actor who has appeared in all of Carax's films. They are integral to one another and he performed above and beyond.


PS, saw your response in the other thread "what does it mean?" You wrote "It means the film sucks." How simply childish, brother. The film clearly had a hardcore effect on you. Good cinema is affecting cinema. You got your opinion across, is it entirely necessary to troll on other threads where people are actually trying to maturely converse? Just take the high road and stay out of it.

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To say a film sucks is neither childish nor does it obviate the possibility of a serious discussion and because my opinion of a film is the opposite of yours doesn't entitle you to underhandedly characterize me as someone"trolling on other threads".
You think this film kicked Sydnecdoche and Inland Empire "square in the nuts". Your taste in films seems so obviously distant from mine that it's seems discussion is probably pointless. You probably thing Noé's Irreversible is also a "masterpiece". But since I already started typing I'll try to bring to light these few known secrets about filmmaking;
to expect someone to sit immobile in a theater seat for around two hours the director had better make sure that there is something visually pleasing emanating from the screen a good deal of the time, if you look at the work of the great directors you'll notice that they are always conscious of that tiny pearl. Carax apparently thinks the opposite. Also,a film should contain somewhere some shred of emotion, should make the spectator feel something. Or again at least see or hear something pleasing--come away from a film feeling that something perhaps has actually been learned. SOMETHING.
Denis Lavant is a brilliant actor and I liked him in some of the earlier films in which he appeared but here it was just pointless drudgery, why linger so long on him continually removing his makeup, or depressingly eating in his van. The graveyard scene was incredably repulsive and Carax avoided the possibility of saving it by making it a bit sexier, c'mon just a bit! And you say I am prudish? This film was prudishness personified.

"...new aspects of the human condition","...our climbing reliance on changing technologies". Sure all of that was in there but transmitted so miserably it's better to read about it than to have to sit through it. .
There has to be some good in bad, and this was Bad, but I admit to being surprised by the captivating musical sequence with Lavant leading the parade of the accordion players. That scene alone made me try to stick it out to the end but like so many others that night in the Paris Max Linder cinema, I split the hell out of there before the end.

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Why bother putting so much effort into such negativity? Make some cookies for a friend, or read a book, or for God's sake see that you are a donor on your driver's license.

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I was answering a long post and you can profit from my effort, it can save turkeys like you the price of admission.

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I left at the entr'acte. I felt the opportunity was too good. Sheer stupidity.

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I saw it at a festival weeks ago.

Yes, it was difficult - and sometimes unsatisfying. Yet I've thought about it more than any film I've seen in a long time.

Just what a festival film should be.

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Your name calling, bizarrely righteous surety that you are the master of what makes good film, your inability to distinguish your taste from quality - and all that overt self hatred you're projecting at everyone every chance you get - shows you to be quite the childish little twit.
When you grow up a little, kiddo, you'll understand just how much of a dickish little pillock you were.
You'll cringe at your very overt childish behavior in a few years, I assure you.

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Right off you criticise name calling in my post and in your reply, name calling is all there is! In case you aren't aware, that's what is called
"hypocritical".
Go pay to watch another Carax film and sit there and dribble with the rest of the morons.

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[deleted]

The graveyard scene was incredably repulsive and Carax avoided the possibility of saving it by making it a bit sexier, c'mon just a bit! And you say I am prudish? This film was prudishness personified.


hahaha - the fact that you wanted the graveyard scene to be 'sexier' proves that you completely missed the point and that the joke was aimed squarely, and successfully, at you.

You probably found Monica Bellucci's rape in Irreversible to be 'too painful and disturbing to enjoy' as well. Shoulda been sexier, eh...

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So you enjoyed the rape scene?! A lot of stupid sick SOBS on these boards

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oh dear.
You're not very bright are you?
Never mind.

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Brighter than you. At least I dont get impressed with rape scenes orchestrated by Noé.

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aw, c'mon man!...you can do better than that!

I've got one hour till I finish work. I wanna see some real retarded, personally directed, internet invective out of you before then. Anyone who subsequently reads this thread will view anything less, and by extension you, as a complete failure otherwise.

C'mon Cincinatti...give it one last shot...

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What the hell are you on about? Go watch another Noé flick, maybe you'll catch a good rape scene..

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Hmmm, repeating the same 'joke' based on your original (purposeful I hope for your sake's) misunderstanding of what I said above is not doing your argument or 'reputation' much good I feel.

In fact, I think it might be making you look a bit thick.

Why don't you try again?

You could try making your riposte:
a - funny/witty
b - convincing/enlightening

Or maybe both.
But let's not run before we can walk eh...

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You should stop, you're getting ripped a new one in this thread. You haven't been able to argue against a single poster here yet you make as if you're "winning" in this so-called "debate". I feel so embarrassed for you...

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"The film should..."
"The director better..."

No... This is not your film. It's not your place to say what should have been. It is what it is. Don't like it? Leave. You're not enlightening anyone.

We've met before, haven't we?

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Yes I am.

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To give the film the name of rip- off, were you then sure to know what you would get from it,when you set foot in the sacred theatre ?
Like in life, a film doesnt necessarily tells us beforehand what it will give us in terms of emotions or desillusions.
Obviously Holy Motors is somehow disconcerting at times, but once you get into the madness of it, you laugh, you cry, and you want to know what comes next !
In a time of silly comedies or overbudgeted blockbusters, Carax's latest offering comes as a fresh breeze and gives the spectator a hallucinated show of images and feelings.

The problem with your critic is that you are not helping people at all by saying rip off, and by insulting the people watching the film at the same showing.Please, go back and graze on very common fields, as you seem to fear the Unknown territories of true poets.You are what you eat......

Regards from a Carax supporter.




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It's your cup of tea but it's more like an experiment,not a film. I paid to see a film. Failed art is therapy and that's fine but don't bill it as a goddamn movie. "Fresh breeze"?! where, the cemetary scene? Sexless boring, repulsive.
Carax is like Noé,doesn't know how to make films, makes therapy, but don'tget people to pay money for it.
A rip-off

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Dude, you need to watch more films, then you'll know what can be called a film. Try Godard, Ruiz, Robbe-Grillet, that'll give you an idea what a film can be. Until then, don't make any affirmation when your movie education still needs to be made.

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I honestly don't know what you are basing your judment on?
I have seen Gaspar Noe's "enter the void" and even though it was not the most entertaining of films, it had something special. It's the feeling you get when you watch the film, this dissociative out of body experience.
And you may prefer people like Lynch, but for me, it's not all about the story's progression or the details in which "generic" cinema builds its stories on. For me, the most important thing while watching a film is the use of pacing, it does wanders to the overall vibe of a film.

Now to come back to Holy Motors, even though i have to admit much of it left an odd taste in my mouth, while watching it I was absorbed. It all fealt like a lucid dream, where you feel what is going on even though not much emotion is being portrayed.
Something mr Lynch has never been able to do for me appart from MAYBE in "blue velvet".(but it's been years since iv seen it..)
and to comment on how you call these movie goers sheep...I see much more sheep-like behaviour in the Lynch forums and discussions.. So many people figuring out the meanings of his films, making him out to be some sort of genius etc... when i sit through a lynch movie not only do i feel nothing but i get totally bored..I believe Lynch adds a lot of pointless weirdness to his films just because he knows the fans will find meaning in it (and just to be clear, you can find meaning in ANYTHING, that does not mean it is O.K. to be weird for the sake of it) most his films are visually un-appealing to me especially "inland empire". Not only did i find that boring, the cinematography was repulsive.

So in my mind you saying "enter the void"(as i do not know the other Noe films) and carax's "holy motors" is their self help therapy, makes no sense. Especially when you then go on to glorify someone like Lynch... Just makes no sense...

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You sound like a bitterly jealous little person, considering that you've made all of two reviews on here, and both were a single star on films that certainly could at least hav been given 4, even if your opinion on their value were valid.

No valid review would give anything 1 star, unless it's porn, or they're a sad, bitter person. You get turned down for a role or something?

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Why all these Carax supporters always have to end their posts with an insult?
Is it to show that they are really clever and so imaginitve and original and bitter just like the film they think they are defending?

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Gosh, you are an angry man.

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Wow what an angry chap. Although this thread and particularly RS-61 has intrigued me and I will be watching this later this evening! You're welcome to come join me if you want!!

Then I'll post what I think.

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Now, this is amusing because you also insulted others by calling them "grazing animals"(your original post), then "morons".
I have not seen the film(as I have not seen any of Carax's films, for that matter, not yet) so I can't say whether it is good or bad, but neither can I trust your opinions because , amusingly, you criticize the film for not having the very things other critics/moviegoers claimed Lynch's or Kaufmann's films did not have.
And in your (hypothetical) reply to them you probably would use the same kinds of arguments/remarks/insults(more or less "so-called") other people in thread used in their reply to your post. And this makes your so-called criticism plain pointless and ridiculous.

This ridiculousness is also exacerbated by the fact that you defended a movie like INLAND EMPIRE(a movie which I liked, as I like most of David Lynch's work) which "gathered" the same complaints from other moviegoers/critics(yes, I am aware I am repeating myself) and I doubt all of them are "mindless baboons". In some of the cases it just happens that a viewer does not resonate with a particular film. And if that particular film is also "disturbing" then that particular viewer may call that film "a piece of repulsive trash". And because he did not resonate with the whole material we did not find "somewhere a shred of emotion". It is neither his fault, nor the filmmaker's. And if this particular spectator would happen to know a thing or two about cinema he would be tempted to assume the film's director(and the film's admirers for that matter) do not know those things and so forth.

However, these posts are funny, are not - by any means to be taken seriously - but it is fun to watch how one post like your is enough to make people start firebombing.

And yes, the idea of "defending" a film -especially in a very "passionate" manner - is childish and pointless. It is not like the film starts screaming and shouting with every negative feedback, neither does one of those feed-backs push the film closer to a deep-black abyss from which it will never return. Indeed good feed-backs usually make a film more popular and bad feed-backs tend to have the opposite effect(just stating the obvious), but this does not say much about he film nor it inconvenes it.

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[deleted]

Honestly, I don't even understand why you replied to my post... Did you even read it properly?
"You sound like a bitterly jealous little person, considering that you've made all of two reviews on here, and both were a single star on films that certainly could at least hav been given 4, even if your opinion on their value were valid.

No valid review would give anything 1 star, unless it's porn, or they're a sad, bitter person. You get turned down for a role or something? "

NOW WHAT DOES YOUR POST EVEN MEAN.. because I wrote 2 reviews(and you assume this is my only account...) and both were a single star which in your opinion ( which only you care about, could have been given 4stars??). Then you go on to say 1 star reviews are pointless.. How does that even make sense, and who are you to judge me for my reviews..
I may be bitter in your opinion but common... the things I am reading in response to my post are ludicrous... Was it diverting the sheep comment to Lynch fans that set off all this hate...
If so, how can you not see the hypocrisy in most of these responses...
and to all the other posters.. How did I end my post in an insult?
And to be clear.. I NEVER said this film was amazing. I simply pointed out how snotty people get when they name drop someone like Lynch and I stand strong on defending Gaspar.. Not only is he already good he also has a lot of potential!

So I am sorry all the Lynch fans got upset at my post, but if someone gets to call the people who appreciated "Holy Motors" sheep, then sometimes a reality check is necessary... now as for you mister kyreena if you are going to personally insult me at least make sense... your post explained nothing. It was simply character defamation and petty insults.. "Good for you"

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I don't know why people are wasting RS-61's time answering this blog, He could be watching WWE,
Poor boy, Holy Motors made your head hurt, Bad movie,

Art {film} is for people to reflect the own life experience,
{not just laughing at a man hit in the nut's with a Baseball bat}

RS-61 will be Punished, For being RS-61, {you should have watched all the film,}

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"because my opinion of a film is the opposite of yours doesn't entitle you to underhandedly characterize me as someone"trolling on other threads". "

"I am more amazed by how the audience continued to sit staring at this nonsense like dumb grazing animals"

Because you don't characterize people because of their opinions.

Baron Frankenstein:
"To know death Otto, you have to *beep* life... in the gall bladder!"

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What are you trying to express?

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[deleted]

Let me just reply straight to you since everybody seems to be over analyzing this masterpiece and you are the focal point of this thread. This is not a character study first and foremost, the way everybody else is seeing it. This is a comment on film as a whole in todays day and age. The actors don't even call it acting anymore, they have appointments. It's a business first and foremost. Each appointment was a commentary on it's specific genre. Movies aren't about the magic of it all anymore. It's about the business. It's only about making money. The mainstream doesn't make things out of passion anymore. It's just masturbatory CGI drivel, like what we saw in the second appointment. At one point, Oscar's boss talks to him about his "business" (cinema) and how it's "in the eye of the beholder." Oscar then replies, "What if there is no beholder?" And that's what solidified my love for the film. It's about us. THE MOVIEGOERS! If there is nobody there anymore to see films made for the purpose of art, then what are we left with? Movies that push an agenda that has nothing to do with the artistry of film at all. It's upsetting to me that you find the film to be awful since it's basically a love letter to cinema. What are you doing on a movie website?

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bravo.

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This is more-or-less what I took away from it too (amongst other things).

But...I don't think Carax is 100% damning towards new films. The scene where he plays the dying man seems to imply that new films of poignancy and worth are still being made amongst the dross. This is why Oscar asks the girl her name and expresses a hope to be working with her again at the end of the scene.

If you'll indulge me and perhaps assume that he represents 'old/film' and she 'new/digital':

In the scene they talk about how he is dying whilst she lives on. She frets that she is dying too; he reassures her that she isn't. He worries that the legacy he left her (film history) is being exploited by her 'husband' (the industry) for avaricious purposes. She says not to worry, it'll all come good...he feels briefly better and dies happy.

Cinema's not dead; it's evolving.
And like a man who lives in a house with his family of apes, the old can happily coexist with the new...

Interesting film, I'll definitely be giving it a second viewing at some point.

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Ah come on re-61, I don't want to start getting into a slaggin match with but in fairness to the other guys here giving you guff, you do seem to be coming accross extremely agro. I mean fair enough if you don't like the film, it's absolutley not to everyones taste, but I don't think it really warrents being called

Probably the most disgusting depressing dirge of misery to ever hit the screen
. Also a bit on the mean side of things was calling the actor in the role ugly, there is no need for that. Sure he's not Brad Pitt, but nevertheless it was a fantastic performance.

As I said, I'm not trying to start any beef with you, but if your going to start getting personal about the actor's appearance and way over emphasise how bad a film is, people are going to start replying aggressivley to you.

Surley there are films out there way more worthy of your hate?

"Fellas, don't drink that coffee! There was a fish....... IN the percolator!"

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This means the film is astonishing! :0)

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