MovieChat Forums > American Mary (2013) Discussion > Why I couldn't enjoy this mess of a film

Why I couldn't enjoy this mess of a film

posted 12 years ago by horrorfreak489
77 replies | jump to latest

The first 40 minutes of the film were excellent. It was basically a character piece and we were following around a desperate character who was unsure what she was doing, but was heavily motivated by getting money because she was broke. She was a likable character who was sarcastic but still cool. Once she gets date raped by her professor, the character of Mary does a COMPLETELE 180. The film DRASTICALLY changed from here on out. After getting date raped, she decides to torture him and tells him shes changing specialties and going into body modification. She does jobs out of her apartment, has a security guard and decides to closely work with the guy from the club.

Did I miss something? Where the hell did all this suddenly come from? This film just did a complete 180. She only did two jobs before and after both times she was pretty freaked out and taken back by it because they were so strange. To have the character drastically change from normal to psycho in a minute like that just doesn't make any sense. I am all for twists, but this just came across as completely random. I felt like I was watching a totally different film. Mary in the first 40 minutes of the film is drastically different from Mary in the remainder of the film. There is no transition.

The rest of the film was all over the place. I had no idea what was going on because the character of Mary just seemed to be all over the place. She goes back to helping out Beatress, then to hanging out at the club and becomes closer with Billy and develops feelings for him out of nowhere. I just didn't know what was going on or what to follow.

[–] sanmentolabs 11 years ago

Yes there are some leaps in plot development and definitely a few things with the cops and the university professors that made me shake my head a few times, but overall I liked the film and you gotta figure the Soska sisters will improve their game over time.

[–] RollTheDice 11 years ago

Something that are unrealistic:
Medical student don't go to social function with potential employer (ie residency) in a hooker attire.
4th Year medical student who wants to be surgeon, don't get gross out easily. Really, she puke after the first & second surgery. It's like she haven't even practice on a cadaver before. And why is she suturing chicken, they suture a cadaver before they go into residency.
Of course, every one of the patients didn't have complications during procedure or after except for penis guy who played with himself.
Oh, I guess for sake of the tits, ass, and gore, I can forgive about anything being realistic here.

[–] freeist 11 years ago

Medical students don't go to social function with potential employee (ie residency) in a hooker attire. [sic]

Are you saying that medical students don't go to social functions at all with "potential employee,"or when they go, they don't go in "hooker attire?" And did you use the wrong word and/or forget a plural somewhere in that sentence?

Until you clarify anything else about that statement, I don't think what she was wearing was hooker attire, and I think what she was wearing is irrelevant to any discussion about the rape.

4th Year medical student who wants to be surgeon, don't get gross out easily. Really, she puke after the first & second surgery. It's like she haven't even practice on a cadaver before. And why is she suturing chicken, they suture a cadaver before they go into residency.

And you totally missed the point of the scene(s): it wasn't the gore that made Mary sick at her stomach (and she didn't throw up after her first surgery, she wept.) The first time (when she wept) it was because she crossed out of her safety zone, which was the point of her being awake holding a bat.

When she threw up, it wasn't because of the gore, it's what she did to that woman for money. Mary violated her boundary. Just like the reason people walk out: it wasn't the blood, it was the body part being cut on. The fact that the nipple cutting is the scene where most of the walkouts occur--among horror fans--shows that Mary's nausea is appropriate, even if she is jaded about blood and guts.

[–] RollTheDice 11 years ago

Medical student don't go to a social function with potential employer (ie residency) in a hooker attire. The script sucks and it's unrealistic. No medical students would dress in a revealing attire in to social function such a conservative field. I'm not talking about rape. I'm talking about unrealistic character and setting.

And you totally missed the point of the scene(s): it wasn't the gore that made Mary sick at her stomach (and she didn't throw up after her first surgery, she wept.) The first time (when she wept) it was because she crossed out of her safety zone, which was the point of her being awake holding a bat.

When she threw up, it wasn't because of the gore, it's what she did to that woman for money. Mary violated her boundary. Just like the reason people walk out: it wasn't the blood, it was the body part being cut on.

Believe what you will for sake of seeing some skins and gore in the movie. Justify with whatever reason you need to make movie plausible. She would have lots experiences with dissecting cadavers by the 4th years of med school. Even an undergrad who wants to go into med school would have dissecting cadavers in anatomy and physiology class. She would know if she can't stand surgery by the 4th years.

[–] freeist 11 years ago

Medical student don't go to a social function with potential employer (ie residency) in a hooker attire. The script sucks and it's unrealistic.

It wasn't hooker attire. And with that phrase, I know your opinion is worthless. For misogyny, you're on ignore.

[–] RollTheDice 11 years ago

Too bad you can't make a sound argument to defend your view and have to take an easy way out. Her attire was too revealing and is a disrespect to medical field. No intelligent woman would dress in such attire to that function.

[–] joyousmelpomene 11 years ago

The dress has nothing to do with the rape, it was planned and why she was asked to be there. The dress was worn because it was an expensive gift from her first bod-mod client, and because she was hanging out with surgeons, high paid types, she felt it was appropriate. I think she looked beautiful, but I don't frequent hookers, so maybe you have more experience than I on that point.

[–] RollTheDice 11 years ago

And her clients are usually of eccentric artistic type (most are strippers I think). She shouldn't wear that to a social function with her resident doctor. Considering medicine is a fairly conservative field. A dress that shows off her cleavage is too much. She wants to present herself as intelligent sophisticated future doctor, not an eye candy. I shake my head at your attempt in personal insult.
Oh, I never said anything about rape. She could wear a G-string and if a man penetrate her without her consent, he is still committing rape.

[–] joyousmelpomene 11 years ago

I apologize for that, as I don't know you, and don't know what types of people you frequent. What I should have said is that I have attended functions with professionals in fields considered conservative, and have seen dresses that were far more risqué. I also work at a hospital, and while a lot of those in the med field wear scrubs, there are still men in tight pants as well as women showing quite a bit of cleavage. I would not agree that all those who hold medical degrees, no matter how extensive, are all that sophisticated. I also liked this weird little movie, so I guess I'm more forgiving of it's flaws.

[–] drgreenthumb1001 10 years ago

Gee thanks Freeist.

Where would we be without you defending every post about Marys attire?

[–] jennifer-oleari 11 years ago

Mary goes to the party & is talked to by her prof & he tells her not to "*beep* up" & she thinks he is telling her some deep Sh*it about life in general, but assumes she has become as hooker cos he is a jaded sadist f&ckhole who rapes & tapes for fun, she is already half drugged by this time. SHE HAD NO CHANCE - SHE HAD NO CHANCE NO MATTER WHAT SHE WORE, she could have worn a BURQA, OKAY?

BUT TO FLOG THE HELL OUT OF THIS HORSE AGAIN - that dress was NOT HOOKER ATTIRE. What Hookers are you used to seeing? Red Carpet hookers? This dress was SO NICE it was a bias cut, VINTAGE STYLE, green silk dress. Most "Hookers" - this *lovely* word you like to throw around for a poor woman who has to use her body for money, a very sad life, indeed, might not ever see a dress this NICE & would also have to show A LOT MORE skin, standing on a street corner...like LEGS, usually, OH yeah Mary shows NO LEGS DOES SHE? NO! Mary's dress is FLOOR LENGTH! A CLASSY FLOOR LENGTH GOWN! Mary is STUDENT, too! She's not a Streetwalker is she? And Mary has small breasts so she wears a plunging neckline, which is generally NOT considered *revealing* since there's NOTHING THERE - NO CLEAVAGE - It's FLAT just skin! Yes, it's daring but it's not that revealing! IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FASHION YOU WOULD KNOW THIS.

And anyway - why are we arguing what attire constitutes rapeable? Is this a serious discussion? I am appalled! She could have walked in the NUDE & felt safe enough to say NO to unwanted sex! WHY IS NO ONE SAYING THIS?

1)She was Dressed beautifully. Anyone who says she wasn't is blind
2)It does not MATTER HOW she was dressed OR NOT IT's HER BODY. PERIOD. You may not touch it if she does not want you to.

END OF DISCUSSION

I am appalled, really. Removeth thine heads from thine arses <3

Oh & what's wrong with practicing sutures on a turkey? That's completely common.

[–] RollTheDice 11 years ago

I'm not talking about rape. Her dress is simply too revealing for such conservative field. She wants to be a doctor right? If she is serious about getting residency in the hospital then she would dressed in something less revealing. If she was in a creative field such as advertising, then perhaps such revealing dress would be acceptable. The script/director didn't do their job in keeping the character realistic.

[–] TerrorDementia 10 years ago

Don't worry, RollTheDice. You are absolutely correct. In the real world, if any woman wore such a revealing dress to a gathering of coworkers, it would be highly inappropriate --- unless it was the Oscars, or the AVN Awards. Don't let the militant feminists bug you, they will obviously scream "MISOGYNIST!" at any comment that speaks the truth about the way Mary was dressed. The reality is, all the people saying "She was dressed perfectly fine" are misandrists: they hate men, and refuse to accept that sometimes women make bad choices.

[–] marc-895 10 years ago

What she was wearing was of no consequence whatsoever. Rape is inexcusable and a drunk person cannot consent.

If you like that, you're probably going to hate this

This entire film is about misandry and if you missed that - you missed the point. The majority of female characters are strong, empowered and well-heeled. The lead men are weak, abusive *beep* who need to rely on drugs or power to get their kicks. This simply plays to the urban myth that most rape victims are drugged using something other than alcohol (numerous research has shown that the numbers don't support that). A lot of people believe "roofies" or some other drug is involved, but alcohol is very effective an incapacitating both sexes - women, having slightly lower body mass and less blood are more likely to succumb more quickly; although it's primary effect is to reduce inhibition making rape under the influence far more difficult to demonstrate (and therefore harder to prosecute).

That's the most horrific part of this entire piece - and if these talented girls don't get that idea out of their system, their career is going to be short lived.

Strong female protagonists need strong male antagonists to shore them up. Drama is about conflict (not necessarily physical). Just look at Sleeping With The Enemy (1991) with Patrick Bergin bravely taking on the difficult role of abusive husband and playing it with ice cold terror and Julia Roberts as the abused spouse.

It's bizarre to me that nearly a quarter of century on, Hollywood still churns out the same weak female characters and so rarely dares to deal with a strong female character than men and women can believe in without resorting to nasty gender feminist stereotypes as trotted out in this miserable excuse.

If anyone doubts my words on the statistics, please, present your evidence with references to academic research. The facts are very different to the myths so often touted on the net.

But never, ever, excuse rape OR blame it - on any person.

[–] TerrorDementia 10 years ago

Drunk people can't consent??? Really??? AS IF! Have you EVER heard of a girl sleeping with a guy, but then he gets arrested for rape because she was drunk and therefore could not consent?

[–] awlocascio 11 years ago

***Long time reader; first time poster***

This film is not good. It was engaging and entertaining enough but it really is poor. The acting is poor. The plot is swiss cheese. The characters are underdeveloped.

Re. The rape discussion:

Okay, why is everyone talking about the rape? Yes, rape is bad... period... end of sentence... no one is saying otherwise. Next, Mary was dressed like a slut when she was raped. This is also a fact. The dress was slinky, low cut, backless, and could not be worn with a bra. These, among other aesthetic details, lends themselves to properly labeling the attire as slutty and the adornee a slut (colloquially - as only sluts dress slutty). One - dressing slutty - does not lend itself to the other - rape. These are just two, separate facts. In sum, dressing slutty does not invite rape nor does it exculpate rapists. We good?

The "Party" Scene and where it all seems to fall apart:

Now, why she dressed like a slut to a "networking event" I'll never know. However, I'll also never know how she was not repulsed by realizing the networking event was actually some sex party with hookers. Did the good ol' Dr. hint toward its deviance before she showed? That would at least answer the questions, "why did Mary wear that dress" and "why did Mary seem unfazed by the events transpiring around her while at the party". Regardless, her character appeared oblivious. She shared no sign of discomfort when gaggles of prostitutes were present or while salivating men were forcing her to chug liquor... C'monnn And we shan't forget the men filming and masturbating to/on a debilitated call girl... C'MONNNNNNNN (one can argue the drugged drink was kicking in)

The scene described above is where the movie just seems to unravel. Nothing seems to really make sense anymore, all the way to random, murderous, end.

All in all, I still enjoyed the piece of trash. I couldn't stop watching and maybe that is what makes this movie great - or, me a terrible person. I definitely could not guess where the plot was going to go next in a time when blockbusters seem to write themselves. For that, I'll give it props.

[–] RollTheDice 11 years ago

Finally, someone with intelligent perspective. People who thinks that such revealing dress is acceptable in networking with doctors are overpowered by their little head. Too many fools fall for superficial stuff and try to justify how good this movie is. Aside from makeup, weird looking characters, cleavage, and gore, this movie is very poorly made.

[–] timlin-4 11 years ago

She was just given the dress, maybe it's the only one she had. It also seemed like the invitation was more like a date than a business meeting. And she is a little unconventional. On the other hand it is strange for the surgery department to invite a bunch of women over to rape. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. But there is nothing about the party that is flawed movie-making. In fact the way it's shot, with all the seedy and horrifying stuff happening just as she turns away is pretty brilliant in a twisted way

[–] RollTheDice 11 years ago

I think the seedy part of surgeons inviting women over and drugged them and take advantage of vulnerable women are appealing to our senses that these surgeons are just human with dark secrets. Even with years of schooling and supposedly professionals with ethic they still are not infallible. I agree that it's stupid that they would do such act blatantly as if their license wouldn't get permanently suspended. She could of wear a business casual dress which I believe she could afford. I have no complaint about the shooting at the party, as it seems this movie is only good at making scenes looks pleasurable/nice, but not realistic or out of context.

[–] winzentween 11 years ago

AGREE 100% the film goes to hell in a shockingly poor way and we end up with a writer director who does not know how to finish the film or if there is a statement or meaning to be made so we get some ridiculous 'run of of time and money ending' which makes no sense and fails all that came before.

“What we have here is a failure to communicate”, Captain

[–] aliceingoreland 11 years ago

Yes, you missed a lot. IT"S a horror movie.

Mary was under a great deal of stress because of school. She under stress do to lack of cash.

She gets a job a stripper place. There she she's something up close that she never wanted, the aftermath of a backroom torture. For cash she takes the job. More and more of core being is crushed.

After the rape, she was really damaged and unable to get any help.

Because of her new world of she took revenge.

She also had to make a living. She found a notch and made a home. For her all of broke her.

Whatever you wanted was not that movie. The real movie started after the rape.

[–] sfrsez 11 years ago

r u *beep*

[–] burgershmurger 11 years ago

I agree with the OP. As much as In enjoyed the mood, the whole movie feels off, esp. Mary. Right from the get-go we never ever get to feel her. She seems completely fake and stilted. After the rape she suddenly turns into this ice-cold monster? Not buying it.
The doctors' rape party was too much and of course they could never get away with raping students.
In the end you can clearly tell this was the Soska sisters' first feature film effort. Though they displayed some talent, this film is all about form instead of plot.

[–] sfrsez 11 years ago

you make some valid points. i like your membership date august of 99

[–] burgershmurger 11 years ago

You're into August 99?

[–] sfrsez 11 years ago

most people would like to go back there

[–] michahardy 11 years ago

Mmm ya, I felt the same way at first. I was like...wow, one rape and you turn into this psychotic killer who is able to cut and kill people without guilt. I am not trying to say rape would not change your personality but I don't think it would make you act like Mary. I kept wondering if maybe they would show she was raped by multiple men and it was even worse then we saw - just to explain why she did the 180 turn.

But as I thought about it, I sort of came to the conclusion that Mary always had it in her to be this evil person. There was always something very very dark inside her but it was being held back and it just happened to be the rape that released it. I don't think she was normal like you and me.

[–] StaunchWoman 9 years ago

I was like...wow, one rape and you turn into this psychotic killer..

I know right?!?! At least get raped a few times before you start on your spree, jeeze!

We've met before, haven't we?

[–] fluffchop 11 years ago

To OP,

1. It wasn't a mess, it was beautiful and peaceful.
2. Why watch horror if you can't appreciate it?

[–] quiladora 11 years ago

that's silly. His name is "horrorfan" something or other.

Thinking a movie fell apart does not have anything to do with not liking a particular genre. Not quite sure how you made that leap.