MovieChat Forums > Jodaeiye Nader az Simin (2011) Discussion > Could someone who liked this movie pleas...

Could someone who liked this movie please explain this to me?


I simply couldn't get my head around the fact, that the entire film's plot could have been resolved, if she (Razieh) had just gone home, and let everyone know she was in a car accident.

I know that there are other dogmas and that they have different socially accepted ways to deal with such issues, other than where I am from, but it just seemed too inconsistent with the intelligence of the rest of the film.
The argument that "they were too pre-occupied with justice to see the underlying problems", is just another way to enforce the argument, that Razieh from the beginning knew she was in deep water, and thus could have saved both families a lot of face, by telling the truth from the start. And come on, saving face is the one thing that keeps this film's plot spinning endlessly.. So why not just deal with it from the start?

If someone could perhaps help with something else that I don't understand about this film.. In my opinion it didn't bring ANYTHING new to the screen world.
It was filmed regularly, with regular shots and angles, standard lighting and sound, a great cast (I'll give them that) fed with, what I presume is good dialogue (I think it's hard to judge before you actually speak the original language).
So where were those unique, defining moments that make a regular film stand out among the rest? I knew it had won the Oscar for best foreign film and a bunch of other statuettes, along with an AMAZING rating on this website, so I ask you now, users of this website, what makes this so special?

I genuinely want to know if I missed out on something, so please don't give me the "you just don't get it"-thing.

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Ok, I could go with the ambiguous ending and live with the uncertainty about who the daughter chooses to go with.
But the scene just before this left me wondering. When Semin, her husband and the daughter leave Razieh''s apartment (after the blood money negotiations fall through), they are seen in the street going to their car. As they approach the car, they stop in their tracks as if they've seen something strange or unexpected. Can someone tell what they saw?

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They saw the broken glass of the car (Hodjat broke it). In the following shot (that we see Nader and Simin from their daughter's point of view in the car) you see the broken glass.

I wrote about the use of glass in the film in another thread:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1832382/board/flat/197356578?p=1

The glasses in this movie are very important. Notice the glasses everywhere in the movie. Nader's house is full of glasses and windows. even the doors have glasses. In the Bank between Nader and Hodjat, In the bus station, in the Hospital, in the school, there are glasses everywhere. There are too many shots in the movie that shows people beyond the glass. It's a visual motif. This shows how unsafe they are and their world is like glass, Breakable. and that they are not safe. In the end of the movie the broken glass of the car means that their glassy world is finally broken. The family is broken apart...

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The daughter also is protected behind her vision glasses - we never see them off. We do see (very) brief shots of women without hairscarves and this is significant in Iran. Very intimate.

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Thanks Kasra Karbasi now that you said it I remembered the last scene of the film, when they were waiting for their daughter to decide on whom she had chosen, the door between them had a broken glass as well.


Excuse my english it's not my native language.

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They saw that someone had punched a hole in their windshield.... Hodjat i'm presuming, after he left in a rage.
The next scene you see them driving home with the giant hole in the windshield.

A chat with you and somehow, death loses its sting.....

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I don't know why everyone is so hard on Simin. Sure, she was cold about her father in law, but her husband had to have been involved in the process to get the visas. Had to get his picture taken, signed papers etc . . . then he obviously changed his mind. I don't think it's right to not at least question their relationship. For me, the reason their relationship failed was because he was so stubborn and full of pride. She was willing to compromise but he refused to lower himself to make an effort. I agree that it was harsh the way she wanted to put the old guy in a home, but SHE was the one taking care of him, not the husband. I can honestly understand having had enough of living your life on full alert.

But to answer the question as to why I thought it was a good movie is because the characters were so well rounded. You could honestly love and hate each character, at the same time. Like, Nader who was such a good son and father, and then turned around and forced his child to chose about paying the money or not which was a terrible thing to do if you ask me. Plus, it was one of the most interesting "courtroom dramas" I have ever seen.

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I share your views about what made the movie good (your 2nd ¶), pooka ... And i would add that not only were the characters so 3-dimensional, unusually complex and unpredictable - which is what made the plot unpredictable to a nearly unprecedented degree. It's been a while since I found myself watching a film where i could so fully see each central character as neither white nor black but shades of grey. It was the story and character development that were beyond the norm, by far.

I don't agree so thoroughly with your first ¶ because I think (as i believe was intended and which fits with the above ¶) that each character was seen to be grappling within (self-imposed) limits.

A key issue in the film was honor. We watch central characters feel their honor threatened and respond to it in mostly counterproductive ways that complicate their lives in diverse and - again - unpredictable ways. That unpredictability factor is ultimately the highest attribute of the film in my eyes.

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"I simply couldn't get my head around the fact, that the entire film's plot could have been resolved, if she (Razieh) had just gone home, and let everyone know she was in a car accident."

Well, that's not really fair, is it? You can say that about any movie, that the plot could have been easily resolved if someone would have done something different :) But I think I get your drift.

This is the way I see it:
- First of all, the movie is not plot driven. Of course, there is a clear story, but it's not conventionally plotted with heroes and villains, where something is going to happen and the protagonist has to thwart it. It's more like the characters make decisions that have consequences that they neither intend nor expect and have to try to solve the situation, making other decisions that have further expected and unexpected consequences, in a society full of oppressive hindrances. The class difference (Nader and Simin are middle class, while Razieh and Hojjat are working class) doesn't make things easier. Religious intolerance and female oppression adds to the complexity.
- Razieh probably never intended to accuse Nader of the miscarriage, as she didn't want her husband to know that she had been working at Naders place. We can see in the scene at the hospital that Hojjat has no idea anything abnormal has happened that triggered the miscarriage, so it's clear that the only reason it gets out in the open is because his sister blurts it out to Simin, and Simin in turn telling Nader. Then Razieh has to try to deal with the situation, where she has to deal with her husbands anger for her (in his and probably his imam's eyes) wrongdoing (working for Nader), the fact that Nader has accused her of theft, and hasn't paid her for her work.
- The car accident and the miscarriage happened on different days. It's plausible that Razieh didn't realize the car accident (which was probably quite mild, as she doesn't seem to have been injured further) could have been the cause of her miscarriage, as the miscarriage seemed to happen at the same time Nader pushed her out. If she knew, it was convenient to use it against Nader, as he had hurt her pride by accusing her of theft. Besides, telling her husband about the car accident would mean she would have to explain what she was doing in the street, they would have to locate the driver, etc. Not that simple, really.
- One thing that I find interesting, is the clear difference in the role of women of different classes and their sense of gender unity. Raziel and Hojjat's sister are lower class, less educated and bound by religion, their gender roles rigid and firmly in control. Nader and Simin are educated, liberal and middle-class, where gender roles are more fluid and the relations between the genders more open. The secrets come out because Simin, more educated and middle class, tells Nader the things the Hojjat's sister tells her about the miscarriage (Hojjat's sister even asks Simin at the hospital why she didn't keep it to herself). Razieh also accuses Simin of betraying her trust in the end. Added to that Termeh's teacher, who supports Nader (but she retracts her statement later), it seems that Raziel and Hojjat's sister think the women should stand together, and that Simin (and to a certain extent, Termeh's teacher) have gone against that understanding, and thus gone against that gender unity.

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Nader goes to the hospital and tells Razieh's husband herself. To which her husband assumes its him who did it. Next scene -> Nader is in jail. By the time Razieh is out of the hospital, her husband is completely heated up and Razeih is scared to say anything. The only thing that gives her courage is her faith, and her conviction not to sin.

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She didn't tell them at the time because she needed to keep the job. She didn't know at first that it hurt the baby, and the next day, she had to try to get to the doctor without giving up the job. Later, I think her husband's assumptions just took over and he was on a rampage. She might have even tried to tell him, but he was clearly not a nice guy when somebody disagreed with him.

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Yes, there are so many reasons why she wouldn't tell initially.

Also, at a later stage, she is essentially lying and trying to blame Nadar for the miscarriage even though her previous visit to the doctor and comments about not feeling movement strongly indicate doubts earlier.

Due to the argument with Nader, she tries to blame him for the pregnancy and even though she knows in her heart of hearts it isn't so she still tries to get him in jail and ruin that family's life. She is a bad person.

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If only Mace Windu would have been a little quicker in killing Palpatine all that Star Wars wouldn't have happened .. seriously man ..

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lol the whole point of the movie is that!!
that if she told the truth, none of these would have happened!! nothing about culture etc etc, only the person! it all started with a tiny lie, but got bigger and bigger!

If you really believe in something like GOD, you are so...

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Razieh was angry about being called a thief, which she wasn't. Simin took the money when she was moving out at the beginning of the film. Razieh let her anger obliterate her reasoning and acted out in bad faith: She pushed the prior car accident out of her mind by simply not thinking about it, and focused her attention on her wounded pride and the fall down the stairs. All of this is very human.

Aesthetically, this film brings nothing new to the screen. Topically, it illuminates 21st century Iran, which as far as I know, and I don't know much, hasn't yet been done through such a profoundly universal language. Real people, real problems, and Iranians too. Perspective shattering!

But actually...maybe its dearth of aesthetic is what's new here. Can anyone think of a comparably restrained film? Michael Haneke always gets mentioned on this topic, but Asghar Farhadi makes Haneke look like a dandy. Haneke uses restraint to unveil his flourishes. Farhadi restrains because he understands human beings never shed their veils. To shoot something so sparingly, without the aegis of a sparkling veneer, that's some kind mastery. Michael Haneke wishes he was this good. I think Asghar Farhadi is a genius. I think this film is a masterpiece.

My rating: 10

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