Uh, How Did Brave Beat This? - Wreck-It Ralph (2012) Discussion

[–] Kaito_Kars 12 years ago

Agreed. The only thing Brave had over Wreck it Ralph was that it was "pretty". But I take substance over style any day and Wreck it Ralph had everything going for it. Wreck it Ralph had a great plot, deep yet intricate story, likable characters, awesome environment, plenty of jokes (both obscure and non obscure game jokes), superior dialogue, and a lot of heart with it. In Brave, the thing I like most about it was the daughter/mother relationship, something most kids movies don't go over, and the Scottish environment. However, the plot is nothing special, the story felt like it was trying to rub in the message to your face to much, the characters were more obnoxious and annoying than enjoyable (especially the triplets, really ruined the movie for me), none of the humor was funny (if it had any), boring dialogue, and the third worst pixar movie to date (the first to going to cars and its sequel).

If I felt like it, I probably might go more in to depth with my comparisons. But up until then Wreck it ralph (IMHO) deserved the oscars way more than Brave.

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[–] Remisser 12 years ago

Because more members of the Academy considered Brave to be better.

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[–] trisp 12 years ago

Or they were just kissing up to Pixar since they've done it in the past. And I foresee more directors at Pixar getting booted off personal projects because Pixar thinks: "Hey! It worked in Ratatouille and whatever we've done was always correct!"

"Frying pans! Who knew right?"

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[–] tryanhas09 11 years ago

The Pixar name.

End of thread.

"All we ever see of stars are their old photographs." - Dr. Manhattan

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[–] jacobthecheeseburger 11 years ago

I have not seen "Pirates" or "Paranorman", but "Wreck It Ralph", "Brave", and "Frankenweenie" are all examples of animation at its highest form. They were all worthy of the win. Although, my favorite is "Wreck It Ralph".

I... Drink... Your... Milk Shake! - Daniel Plainview

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[–] thereseuphemiaabernathy 11 years ago

Hmmm...well, personally, I adored them both. Wreck-It Ralph was even better than I'd expected on all counts. (And anyone who'd say they don't want to play Sugar Rush is a liar.) However, Brave is now one of my favorite Pixar films (possibly second to Finding Nemo, although it is SO difficult to rank those movies), and I actually like it a bit more out of the two. It's not so much that the plot itself was exceptionally unique or amazing, but every other element was so good that they made it better--compelling characters and relationships, good humor and music and dialog, stunning animation and scenery, no dull and draggy scenes...etc. That's my opinion, but I could have seen either of them winning--they're both winners in my book.

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[–] QueenFanUSA 11 years ago

I absolutely agree with SunsetShimmer...BOTH films are "winners". While I would give an edge to Wreck-it Ralph I do think it's ridiculous the way so many animation fans are AGHAST at Brave taking home the Oscar. Brave was world-class in it's own right. If it were up to *me* alone I would have given the Oscar to Wreck-it but it wouldn't be a slam-dunk.

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[–] thereseuphemiaabernathy 11 years ago

Exactly! It's a hard choice either way you come down because they're both very high-quality, and potentially worthy of top prize depending upon an individual viewer's perspective. The past several years have been pretty awesome for both Disney and Pixar.

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[–] QueenFanUSA 11 years ago

Pixar has become a fashionable whipping post for many animation "fans". They have led the last 15 years with one triumph after another. As in anything...success breeds contempt. Any leveling off of the *wow factor* for a new Pixar film is jumped on immediately as a vehicle to exclaim..."See! See! Pixar is going downhill!". It's crazy, I see no cause for alarm , it's still head and shoulders above every other American animation studio EXCEPT Disney Animation.

Long story short, it's not that Pixar has *slipped* so much as it is Disney *rising* to steller levels. Disney is THE *hot* studio right now.

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[–] Remisser 11 years ago

Pixar or Disney....its all the same....two departments run by the same man . . . John Lasseter.

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[–] forthesafetyofpuppies 11 years ago

This.

This is more a Pixar movie than Brave. I'm entirely buying the conspiracy theories. I'm sure they just rebranded Brave as a Pixar movie and this as a Disney one to gauge reactions. It's not like anyone needed any further reassurances as to what a crock the Oscars are-- but we've got them regardless.

___
Loneliness has followed me my whole life

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[–] rbrtck 11 years ago

This is more a Pixar movie than Brave.

Even if that were true (I don't see it that way), Brave does not look anything like a WDAS movie, for one thing. Clearly it was made by Pixar, as the credits would also attest. The project was originally pitched and helmed by Brenda Chapman, who used to work for WDAS in their story department long ago, as well as DreamWorks as a director after that, and when she was hired (before the merger with Disney, if I remember correctly) it was to add whatever she had to bring to Pixar, of which Brave was the most notable result. Well, now she's gone so that part of Pixar (she had been a member of the Brain Trust, too) is gone, but it was there for a time.

I'm entirely buying the conspiracy theories. I'm sure they just rebranded Brave as a Pixar movie and this as a Disney one to gauge reactions.

WDAS would not make a movie like Brave because none of the principal filmmakers who are there (most of whom have been there in some capacity since even before Pixar's first movie was released) would have. It was a Pixar director who made Brave what it is (finished by another Pixar director, but the original vision largely remains), and obviously the movie was made by Pixar's animation staff, just from looking at its art and character design, but their names are also in the credits--it would be a massive conspiracy of hundreds of people to swap those between the two movies, not just a simple rebranding by edict of John Lasseter or Bob Iger. And given all of the nasty things Chapman has been saying about Pixar and Lasseter specifically (whether true or not), don't you think that she would have mentioned that Brave was actually not made by Pixar by now, if that were true?

Sorry, the conspiracy theory is a complete crock. Now what I'm curious about is why some people, such as yourself, seem so eager to want to believe it.

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[–] rbrtck 11 years ago

Pixar or Disney....its all the same....two departments run by the same man . . . John Lasseter.

Lasseter makes the high-level decisions and has influence on the movies of both studios, but he does not make the movies all by himself. Except for Lasseter's leadership, Pixar and WDAS remain as distinct as they ever were in terms of their internal cultures, which ultimately arise from their histories and the people who are there (only a few employees have swapped jobs between them, as before the merger). Wreck-It Ralph may seem like a Pixar movie to some (although it does not to me), but do Tangled and Frozen seem like anything Pixar would have made? WDAS has throughout its long history made much more than just "princess movies," even though there have been a lot of them lately and they tend to stick out in the collective consciousness of the public.

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[–] Remisser 11 years ago

John Lasseter was formerly employed by Disney until he was let go and then went to head Pixar which partnered with Disney and then was bought by Disney. It was then, Lasseter was ascended to the helm of both Disney and Pixar animations. Either way you state it, both studio crews still get paid by the Disney corporation.

Lasseter makes the high-level decisions and has influence on the movies of both studios, but he does not make the movies all by himself.

Of course he does not make the any of the movies all by himself. But as "Chief Creative Officer," Lassater has "has complete control over the animated films released by Disney and even has a say into what kind of rides appear at the studio’s various theme parks."

http://movies.about.com/od/animatedmovies/a/john-lasseter-bio.htm

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[–] rbrtck 11 years ago

Either way you state it, both studio crews still get paid by the Disney corporation.

As do Marvel and Lucasfilm now, but that doesn't make them "all the same" as you seemed to be saying (did I take it too literally?). Being tied together under the same ownership as they are now naturally means that they ultimately answer to the same top executives, but aside from that they are separate divisions that do their own things in their own ways.

WDAS and Pixar may have somewhat closer ties because of John Lasseter, and even before the merger they could be considered kindred studios for obvious reasons (John Lasseter being a "Disney" kind of guy whether he's actually working for Disney at any given time or not), but to the extent that they were distinct before the merger they seem to be just as distinct today.

Of course he does not make the any of the movies all by himself. But as "Chief Creative Officer," Lassater has "has complete control over the animated films released by Disney

My point is there are hundreds of people in WDAS and hundreds of different people in Pixar who actually make these movies, and the two studios themselves are distinct regardless of who is managing them, whether it's Lasseter, the head of Walt Disney Pictures, or the CEO of Disney himself. Occasionally a project pitched by one may be considered by the other, but I don't know of any specific examples where this actually went through. Wreck-It Ralph had always been a WDAS project (the idea had been around since before Pixar even got into feature animation), and Brave was a Pixar project from the get-go as well (pitched by a Pixar employee who initially helmed the movie). Had WDAS and Pixar traded the projects, the movies would have ended up different from what they are now anyway because these two studios are not "all the same."

Now, if you had simply meant that none of this matters because it's all ultimately "Disney" anyway, then I can understand that broad point of view, but even in that case we'd still have to acknowledge that for many people the "Disney" and "Pixar" brands and what WDAS and Pixar make are significant. It was certainly important to Pixar during the Disney-Pixar merger negotiations that Pixar remain a separate studio with its own branding, and that's what they got. And when people complain about movies like Planes, for example, it may make a real difference for some of them to know that neither Pixar nor WDAS were involved, even though everything is "Disney" in the end (complain about the corporation, not that Pixar or WDAS are losing their touch, because they're busy working on their own projects).

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[–] Askur 11 years ago

The bad guys meeting and Ralph quoting his mantra when he is falling to the mentos roof is very typical for Lasseter.

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[–] rbrtck 11 years ago

Pixar has become a fashionable whipping post for many animation "fans".

As had Walt Disney Animated Studios become before--it can happen to any entity.

They have led the last 15 years with one triumph after another. As in anything...success breeds contempt.

It's probably just simple backlash against either the studio's reputation itself or the infallibility that many of the more exuberant Pixar fans confer to the studio (which is made of fallible human beings). It's telling when some fans seem to be in outright denial that Brave could possibly be a Pixar movie, even though it most certainly is (never mind the branding, are the credits fake, too?). And trying to give Pixar credit for a superior movie, Wreck-It Ralph, from a different studio at the same time is just too rich! Other animation fans shouldn't be jumping on their case or Pixar's, but I can understand why they are.

I don't look at things this way because in my view Pixar has never been infallible--for example, I never liked Finding Nemo much, I like Toy Story but always considered it somewhat unconvincing and overrated (just my opinion), and I think that Up is way overrated (absolutely brilliant first act followed by tedious, predictable pablum thereafter). There is some real genius in their work, though, so I do like Pixar a lot and tend to expect a lot of them. On the other hand, not everything they're going to make will be all that great (to me), and that's OK--I know that they're talented and are always trying to do their very best, and I appreciate that.

Any leveling off of the *wow factor* for a new Pixar film is jumped on immediately as a vehicle to exclaim..."See! See! Pixar is going downhill!".

I know, it seems as though they want to see Pixar go downhill. Why would anybody want that? A little backlash is one thing, but those who actually want Pixar to fail (if there are any such people) are just plain jealous for some reason, and obviously that's a very bad thing.

It's crazy, I see no cause for alarm , it's still head and shoulders above every other American animation studio EXCEPT Disney Animation.

Their recent decline is not progressive nor is it sudden and dramatic, so for the time being, I see no reason to be concerned (just slightly disappointed lately, as I'm sure they are). I'm confident that Pixar will do just fine before long. They and WDAS are, for me at least, in a completely different class above the other animation studios. That's probably because I'm a "Disney" kind of guy, like those who work for these two studios--I "get" what they're doing, while I often don't "get" the popularity of the movies from other studios. I also think that they make superior animated features, but obviously that's just my general opinion. Disney is lucky to have them both.

Long story short, it's not that Pixar has *slipped* so much as it is Disney *rising* to steller levels. Disney is THE *hot* studio right now.

Well, Pixar's last three releases have been kind of lackluster, while WDAS has been hot lately, so I think it's a combination of both. It's no reason to put one on a pedestal and put the other down, though. I'm just happy that WDAS has proven that they have what it takes to compete at the highest level, and I expect great things from both studios in the future (with some glitches along the way, too).

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[–] thereseuphemiaabernathy 11 years ago

Pixar has become a fashionable whipping post for many animation "fans". They have led the last 15 years with one triumph after another. As in anything...success breeds contempt. Any leveling off of the *wow factor* for a new Pixar film is jumped on immediately as a vehicle to exclaim..."See! See! Pixar is going downhill!". It's crazy, I see no cause for alarm , it's still head and shoulders above every other American animation studio EXCEPT Disney Animation.

Long story short, it's not that Pixar has *slipped* so much as it is Disney *rising* to steller levels. Disney is THE *hot* studio right now.

THAT could not have been any more perfect.
Disney & Pixar remain distinct and distinguishable, but neither has "slipped"--Disney's soared back up to the peak upon which it had once been, and Pixar has never descended from its.

Saluki mom

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[–] david-hicks067540 11 years ago

TOTALLY agree! Finally saw this movie after a LONG wait and was astonished to realize that this movie lost out to "Brave". Another one in a long line of head scratchers when it comes to the Academy.

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

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[–] movieman-1408 11 years ago

this losing to brave was the worst since monster house dident win like it should have way better than cars! just like argo should never have beat lincoln for best picture!

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[–] hardeskeyjohn 10 years ago

One is about a girl wanting to change her fate (with heavy scottish accent) and is feminist promoting, the other is about two video game characters (the main being male) trying to change their fate.

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[–] weird_beard 9 years ago

Someone below mentioned Pirates. I'm probably the only person who thinks that in a fair world, it would have won over both.

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