Will the people of Gilead be black? - The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion

[–] wileypeyote 9 years ago

Where do you live? Never seen white and black people living in the same community?

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[–] AtheismBecauseReason 9 years ago

Where do you live?

Ever seen a black king in a white country?

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[–] Captain_Wesker 9 years ago

Ever seen a black king in a white country?

Like the United States of America?

Yeah, the Prez isn't exactly a King, and the US isn't exclusively Caucasian/"white", but you catch my drift.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] AtheismBecauseReason 9 years ago

You don't have a drift.

Gilead has a lineage of leaders, not elections. If the lineage has been black, fine, but that would only happen in a black country.

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[–] Toe_cutter_9000 8 years ago

It doesnt matter, its a story, it can be whatever it wants.

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[–] melecsengir-1 8 years ago

Ever read the books?

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[–] sugrnspyce4 9 years ago

It's possible, but unlikely. While I do think of this upcoming cycle potentially as being on another level of the Tower, I don't think the filmmakers would go out of their way and deliberately make nearly everyone in Gilead black just to "match" Roland and his immediate family. However, I'm thinking that with the cast including a black actor and an Asian actress (Claudia Kim) in the mix with white actors and actresses so far, this version of Gilead might be more diverse than in the books. I'd assume that Steven Deschain will be black (Gabrielle doesn't have to be, necessarily), but that doesn't mean most everyone else will be.

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[–] AtheismBecauseReason 9 years ago

It should mean that.

Have you ever heard of a royal family being a different race than most of it's constituency?

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[–] sugrnspyce4 9 years ago

It should mean that.

Have you ever heard of a royal family being a different race than most of it's constituency?

I assume you mean the Deschain family. While Roland's family members are descended from royalty, the way King describes Steven Deschain - and later, Roland - is merely as a leader. Steven was dinh of Gilead and of the gunslingers, and Roland was dinh of his ka-tet.

But to answer your question, I can't speak much for modern royalty since there aren't many monarchies around that rule directly nowadays. However, there have been many countries - especially in Africa - that have been under foreign rule at one point or another.

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[–] AtheismBecauseReason 9 years ago

Countries being under foreign rule is irrelevant, as Gilead was not under foreign rule.

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[–] sugrnspyce4 9 years ago

What you asked was this:

Have you ever heard of a royal family being a different race than most of it's constituency?

And the answer to that, as I explained before, is "yes," so it is relevant to the question you asked.

And you're right, Gilead was not under foreign rule. But as I've said in other threads, neither Gilead nor Mid-World itself is our world. Rules, traditions, social structures, etc. that exist there don't necessarily exist here, and vice versa.

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[–] AtheismBecauseReason 9 years ago

And I'm now explaining that your answer doesn't apply to the spirit of the question.

And your further explanation also is irrelevant as we have many cultures on Earth, none of which are willingly ruled over by a member of a race not of their own. So explain again how Midworld would be?

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[–] sugrnspyce4 9 years ago

And I'm now explaining that your answer doesn't apply to the spirit of the question.

I answered the question that was asked. Judging by your recent replies, I do believe I understand the "spirit of the question": the implication that a country's ruler(s) are the same race as his/her/their subjects. However, as I stated in my previous replies, that's not always the case.

And your further explanation also is irrelevant as we have many cultures on Earth, none of which are willingly ruled over by a member of a race not of their own. So explain again how Midworld would be?

I agree with the fact that many cultures ruled over by an "outsider"/"outsiders" aren't willing subjects. However, the willingness of those being ruled was not part of your original question. As such, my answer still stands.

If anything, except for "compare and contrast" purposes, the implication in your original question is basically irrelevant. To my knowledge, not only are the Deschains not royalty (though Roland and his father are descended from it), but as I said before, Mid-World is not Earth, and vice versa. While there are obviously some similarities to our world, Mid-World and Earth are not the same.

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[–] AtheismBecauseReason 9 years ago

as I stated in my previous replies, that's not always the case.

The only example you gave otherwise was a subjugated race, which doesn't apply. So no, you didn't.

the willingness of those being ruled was not part of your original question

We've cleared this up retard.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 9 years ago

Go back to your "I hate all religions" thread and leave this board alone.

Because we already have one top dog troll, we do not need another one.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] sugrnspyce4 9 years ago

The only example you gave otherwise was a subjugated race, which doesn't apply. So no, you didn't.

LOL - so now, with your new concerns being the number of examples I give and whether or not the subjects in question are subjugated or not, you've moved the goalpost again. It seems to me that you were fishing for a specific answer, and then got upset that you didn't get the answer you wanted. Re-read your original question. I've answered it. You don't have to like my answer, but it is a direct, relevant response to the question you originally asked.

Pro tip: If you're looking for a specific answer, you should include those specifics in your question.

We've cleared this up retard.

And with this comment, it's obvious that you don't handle disagreement very well. FYI, name-calling is neither conducive to a conversation, nor does it help you get your point across.

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[–] tinasparklesau 9 years ago

Just to throw some thoughts around...

Isn't it pretty much a given that Gilead is a 'type' of monarchy? Sure we can debate that it's not explicitly stated that it is (or it isn't in this dimension, but i'd rather steer away that everything can be changed because of this, otherwise the movie may bare no resemblance to the books at all and shouldn't even be called The Dark Tower), but it's clear from the books that the 'rulers' of Gilead are direct blood descendants from the previous ruler, even though it's eventually been watered down from king (?) to just ruler. There's many generations between Arthur Eld before we reach Steven. It's possible there have been black rulers, brown rulers, back to white and so on. But For Roland to be Black, at least one of his parents must be black. Unless his skin colour is a throw back to a grandparent or something, but i think that would be getting unnecessarily messy and/or lazy if the producers plan on giving us an explanation. If one of his parents are black, personally i think it would be best to be Gabrielle. Just for the sake of maintaining some semblance of the source material.

I dont recall any racism or oppression towards darker skinned people in Gilead in the books. But they do appear to be a minority, and i think someone mentioned in another thread that when they are mentioned, they have a menial occupation. Does anyone recall any darker skinned people in a high ranking offical capacity? I don't, which is also why i'm also leaning towards Gabrielle being the black parent. (please, not a trigger to debate oppressed black women or women in general).

I'm all for some racial diversity in Gilead, If Roland was the only non-caucasian (apart from a parent), it would look quite stark. And yep, the inclusion of an asian actress (Claudia Kim) looks like it could go that way. Not that she is from Gilead itself, but she does have ties to Steven. I was just looking for opinions on how this would be addressed really, as a black Roland leads to questions of a possible black Steven, to a possible black Gilead, etc. Just wondering how much they would need to deviate from the source material after deciding Idris was the best man for the job. Can't say i'm a fan of the team behind this just making up storylines for TDT that have never existed for the sake of who they cast as the lead. It's a shame that a poster here had to resort to name calling. Debate is interesting but slander is not. Especially as you seem to be the most objective and friendly poster in here despite not sharing the same sentiments as others. Lol, in fact you may be the only one! (oh, Brenton Thwaites for Cuthbert is great!!! not sure what thread that was on now but i agree!)

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[–] sugrnspyce4 9 years ago

Isn't it pretty much a given that Gilead is a 'type' of monarchy?

Well...IMO, yes and no. Yes, because Steven (and Roland) Deschain are directly descended from Arthur Eld, but no because the title of "dinh" as opposed to "king" is used (though maybe "dinh" qualifies as a kind of royal leadership position in Mid-World? It's hard to say, since later, Roland is "dinh" of only three people and a billy bumbler, but I digress.). To me, it seems that the title of "dinh" is either a Gilead equivalent - or possibly a step above - the title of "mayor," since the title was used for the leader of a city (Gilead) which is part of a larger land (the barony of New Canaan). But, since I've said many times that the rules that apply in our world might not necessarily apply there, it's definitely a possibility.

But For Roland to be Black, at least one of his parents must be black. Unless his skin colour is a throw back to a grandparent or something, but i think that would be getting unnecessarily messy and/or lazy if the producers plan on giving us an explanation. If one of his parents are black, personally i think it would be best to be Gabrielle. Just for the sake of maintaining some semblance of the source material...

Yes, I agree that at least one of Roland's parents will most likely be black. As for which one, it really doesn't matter much to me, though if I were to guess, I think it'll most likely be his father. Though even if that's the case, it's still very possible that Arthur Eld - if he's depicted in the film(s) - could still be white. But who knows? They might surprise us.

I dont recall any racism or oppression towards darker skinned people in Gilead in the books. But they do appear to be a minority, and i think someone mentioned in another thread that when they are mentioned, they have a menial occupation. Does anyone recall any darker skinned people in a high ranking offical capacity? I don't, which is also why i'm also leaning towards Gabrielle being the black parent. (please, not a trigger to debate oppressed black women or women in general).

I don't recall any racism or oppression against darker-skinned people in the books either, but in Gilead at least, they may have been a minority. However, we really can't be certain that none of the darker-skinned people had "high powered" positions since King didn't go into any real detail about people not directly related to the main characters and their stories. And yes, the darker-skinned people that are mentioned do appear to be in the Mid-World equivalent of "blue collar" positions, but it's made clear that those we'd consider white also held many of those same positions. However, I'd imagine that the darker-skinned people of Mid-World held positions of all ranks in their own lands, even if that wasn't the case in places like Gilead.

I'm all for some racial diversity in Gilead, If Roland was the only non-caucasian (apart from a parent), it would look quite stark. And yep, the inclusion of an asian actress (Claudia Kim) looks like it could go that way. Not that she is from Gilead itself, but she does have ties to Steven. I was just looking for opinions on how this would be addressed really, as a black Roland leads to questions of a possible black Steven, to a possible black Gilead, etc. Just wondering how much they would need to deviate from the source material after deciding Idris was the best man for the job. Can't say i'm a fan of the team behind this just making up storylines for TDT that have never existed for the sake of who they cast as the lead. It's a shame that a poster here had to resort to name calling. Debate is interesting but slander is not. Especially as you seem to be the most objective and friendly poster in here despite not sharing the same sentiments as others. Lol, in fact you may be the only one! (oh, Brenton Thwaites for Cuthbert is great!!! not sure what thread that was on now but i agree!)

Yeah, I definitely get what you're saying. Though if they are having to make up storylines that never existed, I think that has much less to do with Roland and his family members being black and much more to do with the fact that this story is a new cycle of Roland's journey and the Horn of Eld is in play. And I agree, name-calling is never a good look IMO, especially since some of us just want to have a civil discussion or debate based on our favorite story. But 'tis the internet after all, so that's to be expected from time to time lol (and thanks, btw - you're not so bad yourself! ^_^ ). Lastly, yes - every time I look at Brenton Thwaites now, all I see is Cuthbert. It's easy for me to imagine him with fairly long hair and a rook's skull hanging from his neck, riding a horse lol. :)

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[–] tinasparklesau 9 years ago

Just a Brenton Thwaites interview that screams Cuthbert. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AML4jwSl7Hs

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[–] sugrnspyce4 9 years ago

Ha - yes! Brenton is adorable. And I must say, that ponytail sure does look familiar. :)

http://66.media.tumblr.com/8662ec2f07f1a9b0632830db36a7119e/tumblr_mgzkjnily81reoeweo1_1280.png

Also, the way he looks at around 0:35 made me think of this panel.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/darktower/images/a/ad/Cuthbert_Allgood.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110331202531

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[–] MadSimian 8 years ago

I always imagined Roland's world(before it went to caca) being feudally organized and Steven Deschains holding the equivalent rank of a Lord. Although, with the mixing of western motifs with this story, I'd wager a guess that the definition of 'dinh' probably takes on shades of 'sheriff' as well.

I also wanted to ask. Are you the same user who started the soundtrack suggestion thread on the older DT board here(back when Ron Howard was still attached)?

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

I always imagined Roland's world(before it went to caca) being feudally organized and Steven Deschains holding the equivalent rank of a Lord. Although, with the mixing of western motifs with this story, I'd wager a guess that the definition of 'dinh' probably takes on shades of 'sheriff' as well.

I could see that. A feudal system or something similar does make sense. And you might be on to something concerning the "sheriff" part of a dinh's responsibilities, though I wonder if that applies to the title in general or if it applies to Steven and Roland because they also happen to be gunslingers. Or maybe, only gunslingers can take on the role of dinh? I'm not sure if they've ever made that clear.

I also wanted to ask. Are you the same user who started the soundtrack suggestion thread on the older DT board here(back when Ron Howard was still attached)?

No, I'm not, but I did participate in the original "Dark Tower soundtrack" thread. I did find the playlist that person put together after all the suggestions in the original thread. Click through to this post if you want to check that out. :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/nest/254434123?d=254434123#254434123

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[–] MadSimian 8 years ago

Actually, I was one of the people who posted in that thread too. lol After the Howard version went tits up, I kind of gave up on the possibility of seeing a DT adaptation anytime soon and didn't make it a point to proactively seek out any further news. So, eventually, the page for the Howard adaptation disappeared and its board along with it. I only lucked into finding that this version was being made by pure chance(although, being a DT/King fan, it would have crossed my radar before too long anyway).

Anyway, the idea of the gunslingers is akin to paladins or knight-errants of the Arthurian variety making Steven a kind of King Arthur(it even says as much by his family line having originated with 'Arthur Eld' lol) and the other gunslingers being a part of his 'round table'. Also, weren't the family heirloom guns Roland inherited from Steven supposed to have originally been forged from Excalibur(or Roland's world's equivalent of it)? There's also the fact that one of Flagg's former identities was that of Maerlyn and that Roland's illegitimate son by the succubus, Mia, is called Mordred iirc. I guess what I'm saying is that, at least within the Barony of Gilead, the leader position was probably inherited much like it would have been in the older Arthurian legends the series is partly inspired by.

In any case, we seemed to have hijacked this thread's purpose a bit so I'll end my post with this. In "The Talisman"(which has several connections with the DT series and mythos), there is a gunslinger named Lester Parkus(the twinner of Lester Parker) who happens to be black. Maybe part of Roland's curse of having to live in a time loop(of sorts) involves each iteration having him inhabiting a different twinner's body and, in the iteration this movie(and, hopefully, further sequels) represents, he's in a black version of himself of which Parkus may be a further twinner. Which ties everything up nicely and still stays true to the general mythos previously presented in the book series and other books connected to it.

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

Nice to see people from years ago coming back to the boards. :)

Anyway, yes, I remember reading that Steven's (and later, Roland's) guns were said to be forged from Excalibur. As for one of Flagg's former identities being Maerlyn, I do remember Roland wondering if that was true, but I think that idea may have been debunked by Mia, if I remember correctly (I'm currently on Wolves of the Calla again, so I'll find out soon enough). But that aside, you might be right in saying the position of dinh was inherited in Gilead. And since the ones who inherited the position were also gunslingers, the responsibility of being peacemaker/lawman would naturally go along with it. I wonder if that was the case in other parts of Mid-World.

Also, I love The Talisman and Black House (actually, I'm probably due for another reading of those once I finish this current DT cycle). I don't know why the idea of Parkus being Movie Roland's twinner never occurred to me before lol. I like that idea. Speaking of which, I'm surprised they didn't try to adapt The Talisman first as kind of a warm-up for The Dark Tower. I'd love to see that one as a movie one day.

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[–] MadSimian 8 years ago

I agree that, had it been me making the decisions, I'd have adapted "The Talisman" first to test the waters. Despite it having a sequel, the original book is a self-contained story which would make it much easier to adapt than a whole series of books. Plus, it also includes the idea of alternate worlds and travelling between them much like the DT books but on a considerably smaller scale(just our world and the Territories). Also, I always loved Wolf and would have enjoyed seeing him portrayed in a live action movie.

Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

I agree that, had it been me making the decisions, I'd have adapted "The Talisman" first to test the waters. Despite it having a sequel, the original book is a self-contained story which would make it much easier to adapt than a whole series of books. Plus, it also includes the idea of alternate worlds and travelling between them much like the DT books but on a considerably smaller scale(just our world and the Territories). Also, I always loved Wolf and would have enjoyed seeing him portrayed in a live action movie.

My thoughts exactly. A Talisman adaptation could've included a nod to the The Dark Tower as foreshadowing of the epic story to come. And I agree - Wolf was the best! :) I can imagine the transformed Thayer School and Agincourt Hotel would be pretty scary in live-action. I really hope we'll get to see Jacky-boy and Wolf's adventures on the big screen one of these days.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 9 years ago

Are you an expert on Mid-World/All-World politics? Heck, have you ever even witnessed Mid-World/All-World politics?

P.S. "Race"? Really? As far as we all know, they're all human beings.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] AtheismBecauseReason 9 years ago

Are you aware of a country who's royal family lineage was a different race that the majority of it's people?

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[–] christer-soneson-254-597056 8 years ago

We'll, I'm all against changing the source material in favour of political correct *beep* but there are some instances of this, at least one: The ancient rulers of egypt, the pharaos, cleopatra and so on, were of Greek descent and didn't intermarry with the people of egypt, who were not of greek descent.

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[–] Beaubelle 8 years ago

Ummm . . . ancient Egypt?

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[–] mahnmut 9 years ago

I don't care if they're Black, Chinese, Hispanic or a all those races and colors mixed together. But I'll be damned if they're Brits. ;)

Seriously, apart from the whole Odetta/Detta/Susannah deal, I don't really see anything having to change all that much. They can make her crazy some other way and make her hate people for some other reason. I realize it's a big part of book two, but if you consider all eight tomes, it's kind a an insignificant part of the story. It's not like they haven't butchered whole parts of stories before and still managed to make a decent movie.

Making good books into movies always hurts some places.

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[–] rob-25618 8 years ago

Seriously, apart from the whole Odetta/Detta/Susannah deal, I don't really see anything having to change all that much. They can make her crazy some other way and make her hate people for some other reason.

I have to say that I personally disagree with you there; for me Susannah was always the true hero of the story as she is the one who grows the most and at the end is strong enough to see that finding the tower will not give her happiness and is more willing to step into an uncertain but possibly happy future. While at the same her hatred towards "honky mahfahs" was something which very clearly marked her time and was the reason she instantly hated Roland.

I personally reacted angry at the casting of Elba, even though I liked him in both Luther and Pacific Rim as it's very clear from the books that Roland is based on two people; Clint Eastwood and King himself. Also one of Roland's most distinguishing features isn't something you would find on a black person and while Elba is a great actor, I haven't seen him as the single minded jerk that Roland deep down is.

With that being said though I am willing to give this movie a chance and while it won't be what I want, it might be something that I can enjoy and possibly even enjoy thoroughly.

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[–] mahnmut 8 years ago

Also one of Roland's most distinguishing features isn't something you would find on a black person

I don't know. I think Elba with "bombardier's" contacts would be quite striking.

I see your point about Susannah but I still think they can find some other way to explain the hatred. In any case, there are no indications that this going to be about anything but the first book. Which means no Eddie and no Odetta. From there, they might go an entirely different direction if they ever decide to do a sequel. I feel that we need to expect that this is going to stand on its own and that it will be more of the "based on a novel by..." kind of movie.

Also, just like they do with a lot of movies based on novels, they'll probably go with a more current time frame. I wouldn't be surprised if Jake turns out be from the 2010s. Some of the racial issues might be treated slightly differently with a different time frame.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Also one of Roland's most distinguishing features isn't something you would find on a black person

Black people can have blue eyes...

Putting that aside, Roland is from a fictional world. His genetics don't have to play (or at least fully play) by our rules.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Why do you say that? I highly disagree.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] tylerrepotter 9 years ago

You are on to something here. They probably should make gilead and mid world all black people to make it self consistent. That way it could make sense. Also have the version of our world all black so white odetta makes sense.

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[–] jedrinker 8 years ago

This is a good question.

I've read through some of the replies, and I've seen how this topic has veered off the subject of Mid-World and has focused on the politics - past and present - of Our World.

This is a moot point.

Never forget that we're talking a world that has "emptied out" and "moved on". Sure, there are bastions, like Gilead, where society has rebounded a little, but for the most part, it's a world that is barren and hostile...

With that in mind, with so few choices out there for a potential mate, why would this even be an argument??

These people are literally the last people on earth... I don't think they can afford to be picky about skin tone.

I would think Gilead is populated with people of every shade.

Imagine if our world were to be suddenly emptied out, like theirs. Wouldn't then the USA be a likely substitute for Gilead? We have people from every creed here in the states. If suddenly 90 percent of the population were to be wiped out, the remaining would band together in groups... smaller groups, but groups nonetheless... to survive. These would also have their fair share of sampling from the proverbial gene pool. And again, we run into the issue of propagation of the species.

In this instance, I believe true equality of the races would begin to emerge, and the amount of melanin your skin produces would take a back seat to your ability to survive, and provide for your offspring.

Roland is a Gunslinger.
A Knight.
It's these qualities that make him a viable candidate for reproduction.

I believe I've made my point.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

You are a far more intelligent and civil individual than the majority of people here that are bellyaching about cinematic Roland Deschain possessing dark skin.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] mahnmut 8 years ago

And I don't recall Roland caring one way or the other about other people's skin color. It really wasn't his style to discriminate over such superficialities.

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[–] Spider198 8 years ago

One: There are no good or inventive ideas about how to stop a black Roland changing the dynamic of the ka tet, at least not as far as the dynamic between Detta and Roland/Eddie during the events of the 2nd book. Just lame excuse for how it won't change anything.

Two: The ruling lineage of a country (or whatever word you want to use) is basically always the the same race as the majority of the inhabitants they rule over. It's yet another reason why a black Roland is completely *beep* stupid.

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[–] tinasparklesau 8 years ago

I agree that a black Roland will definitely take some talented writing to address the Roland/O/Detta dynamics in TDotT. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much choice in this, unless we boycott?

I wonder if Elba's latest tweet is maybe a double entendre that the rulers of Gilead have been black since Arthur... Why did Idris tweet it? Why was Arthur Eld mentioned. I find it curious...

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[–] Whooda_Thunkit 8 years ago

Detta would hate a black Roland possibly even more because, in her eyes, he is tight with a white guy (Eddie). She wouldn't pick up that they really were not friends.

I doubt the whole race traitor thing is limited to white people and would expect Detta to hold that view.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Two: The ruling lineage of a country (or whatever word you want to use) is basically always the the same race as the majority of the inhabitants they rule over. It's yet another reason why a black Roland is completely *beep* stupid.

Three: It's a fictional setting with its own rules. You want reality? Stick to real-world history.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] rcolfer 8 years ago

Pro tip: You don't need an apostrophe on that "its". It works like "his".

This argument that Mid World is utterly different to Earth doesn't wash with me. In reading the books the people of Mid World reveal themselves to be very similar to people we all know. Mostly dull plodders, some nice folk and a few bastards who've scraped together some power.

For fiction to be good it has to be relatable. For example, in the 'Culture' books by Iain M Banks, we're presented with a society that's on such a different level of technology that few objects or scenarios are familiar. The characters though, behave in ways that are entirely understandable. If they didn't, the books would be unreadable junk.

People in fiction behave in ways that we understand or it's bad fiction. Simple as that.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

I know: it's so essential to the story, that all will fall apart if proper historical genealogical aristocratic relations are improperly depicted.

P.S. Stay unwashed if you wish. Your ilk will pick apart minutiae masquerading as substance and the film will debut in theaters, regardless.

P.P.S. Kudos for the grammatical correction.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] rcolfer 8 years ago

Was that a response? It's a bit surreal. I'm disappointed.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

I've always heard from others that I subconsciously manifest those Lovecraftian geometries while writing.

Spooky!

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

If Javier Bardem had been cast as Roland Deschain, would you have asked "Will the people of Gilead be Hispanic/Spanish?" or stated "That doesn't make any sense, because that's what the people of Mejis look like."

I am guessing that, odds are, you would not have .

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] tinasparklesau 8 years ago

I feel your question is facetious, but i'll answer it anyway. As i asked the first question, yes, i probably would ask the same question if Javier had been cast. And funnily enough i do think it would have been an easier casting choice precisely because the mejis are for the most part still part of the inner baronies, whereas Garlan is not and is its own Kingdom. It was primarily a question of the source material and how the casting could potentially change what we know of TDT world when it came to film, not necessarily race. The race card just happens to be the elephant in the room, so how can it not be addressed? If Roland is black or hispanic or green, the question is still valid as to what race the people of the cinematic Gilead will be, without being a racist question.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

I like how you try to add a thin layer of legitimacy to your faux-innocence.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] vassaggo 8 years ago

I am going off raw memory here. Isn't it stated that most gunslingers were from the line of Eld but not all in Wind Through the Key Hole. I believe it's stated that Tim Stoutheart wasn't but he could've been as the Eld had many a Gilly. Also Parkus in Black House is a black man and knows the way of the gun. He wasn't outcasted like say Eldred. It doesn't come right out and say Parkus is a Gunslinger. It's up for debate. He knows the high speech and carries hard calibers but he does say that Roland was the last Gunslinger but made new ones. A little grasping at straws, but IF Parkus is a Gunslinger and Most Gunslingers are from the line of Eld. Then there is a chance for Black descendant of Arthur. So there can be precedent for it. Now as for a king or queen being different race of then majority of people. It would all depend on how Marriage was seen in New Canaan. The title of Dinh of the Tet of the Gun isn't strictly a birthright past from father to son. Guns are passed but the title isn't. Most Gunslingers are of the Line of Eld so Ka chooses. Jamie Decurry, Alaine Jones, or Cuthbert Allgood could've been the Dinh of their Ka-Tet all probably decedents of Arthur but Ka made Roland their Dinh. And if Farson/Flagg/Marten/Walter/Old Creeping Judas/ didn't destroy In-World then most likely Roland would've become Dinh of the Tet of the Gun like his Father but it's not set in stone. So If you have a loose choosing of who is the Dinh based off of Ka then yeah Gunslinger that is the product of inter-racial marriage could be Dinh of the Tet of the Gun. Or it could be 2 black people that are also line of eld from racial marriages in the past. And many races were known in Gilead/New Canaan . Hax the head cook for Castle was 1/4 Black, 1/4 Islander, 1/4 Mejis and 1/4 they didn't know.

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