So now Rowland is black? - The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion

[–] Highwalker420 8 years ago

Hope this is a troll. Pretty sure Odetta is white in this. Never understood how so many people could be more outraged by Roland's skin than all the other changes.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Odetta/Susannah is not in the first movie. Plus, the actress who is playing her has not yet been verified one way or the other...so keep your pants on.

Perhaps you meant Susan Delgado?

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] syafiqjabar 8 years ago

I suggest you get therapy soon, because Roland is not a real person.

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[–] lone-foxx 8 years ago

Neither is Shaft, and there is no way that character would work as a white person.

"This is What You Want... This is What You Get"

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Shaft was a prominent African-American character created during a time when the battle for civil rights in the United States was much newer and much fiercer. There's a kind of historical importance behind him.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] Spider198 8 years ago

And there is your usual excuses for your double standard, any black character anyone merely suggests should be changed and you claim that race is important to their character. As opposed to you all white people are blank slates waiting to be changed view.

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[–] garyleigh-661-284912 8 years ago

Roland is not a real person? That's the important part? Roland is an established character, changing an established character to be politically correct is just wrong......

As was pointed out, Shaft will never be played by a white person. Neither will "Fat Albert", "Kunte Kinte" from Roots or dozens of other established black characters.

Once some characters (and their traits) have been established, the basic facts should remain unchanged.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

changing an established character to be politically correct is just wrong

You are not implying that Idris Elba was chosen because of a "politically correct" agenda, are you?

Surely not?

.

As was pointed out, Shaft will never be played by a white person. Neither will "Fat Albert", "Kunte Kinte" from Roots or dozens of other established black characters.

Well, yeah. There are fewer such characters by comparison and all the ones you've mentioned were created at least thirty-six years ago...when the social landscape of the United States were quite different.

(The character of "Kunta Kinte" is a particularly poor example, by the way. The man's ethnic heritage did determine how he was treated in his particular setting and the opportunities made available to him.)

Once some characters (and their traits) have been established, the basic facts should remain unchanged.

I don't agree with this. There are instances where a character's traits are not sacrosanct. For instance: Peter Dinklage playing Bolivar Trask in X-Men: Days of Future Past works because nothing about the original comic book character required him to be of average height. Along similar lines, Hugh Jackman nailed the character of Wolverine despite being considerably taller than the Canadian superhero actually is. Finally, Morgan Freeman did a fantastic job playing "Red" in the cinematic adaptation of The Shawshank Redemption.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] garyleigh-661-284912 8 years ago

Yes, am implying the change was to be politically correct.

In the book, Odetta is a racist, and makes racist comments towards Roland.

So now that Roland is black, will a white girl play Odetta and make racist comments about Roland? Probably, this is more acceptable to most.

The race change also affects the ending. Am guessing the bad guy is still white? So now it's just another black versus white movie ending. (Yawn). Gee, I wonder who will win?

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

Yes, am implying the change was to be politically correct.

What specifically leads you to believe that political correctness was the filmmakers' primary motive when they cast Roland?

In the book, Odetta is a racist, and makes racist comments towards Roland.

So now that Roland is black, will a white girl play Odetta and make racist comments about Roland? Probably, this is more acceptable to most.

Well, it's actually Detta that's racist, but I know what you mean. Anyway, yes, you're right - Detta is racist and does make racist comments toward Roland. And she also makes those same comments toward Eddie. The reason I point this out is because there's a very simple solution to this Detta vs. Roland and Eddie dilemma: Shift Detta's hatred of whites entirely onto Eddie, and have her think of Roland as a "race traitor" just for aligning himself with Eddie (in this case, Roland would be a "honky-lovin' mahfah"). This would keep the rest of the ka-tet intact, accommodate Roland's race change, and maintain the tone of the conflict itself. It could also make the conflict even more interesting with Detta's hate being two-pronged.

Long story short, O/Detta/Susannah's race doesn't necessarily have to change just because Roland is black.

The race change also affects the ending. Am guessing the bad guy is still white? So now it's just another black versus white movie ending. (Yawn). Gee, I wonder who will win?

I've seen many people comment on parts of the story that Roland's race change could affect, but I can't say that the ending was one of them. How does the race change affect the ending?

Also, if by "the bad guy" you mean the Man in Black, then yes, he's white (Matthew McConaughey will be playing him). But if you mean the Crimson King, your guess is as good as mine since they haven't cast that character yet.

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[–] eddydean-16760 8 years ago

Humm ok I will go along with what you have said so far but it has made things like the Detta .. Eddy and the lobstrosity saga void but then again from the photo's that have been released it seems that all of that has been swept under the rug …. Roland has fingers … and to add more in accuracies erm speed loaders and chambers for what should be a antique set of firing irons …

Now there is photos that have revealed that Jake indeed starts to lose his marbles, the drawings on his bedroom wall so in theory there are indeed other worlds than this one …. BUT as Eddy &
O/Detta/Susannah don’t appear to be in the cast line up seems that entire book can be thrown out … seems to be tiny snippits from various parts of the epic saga have been snipped and cobbled together to get from … Roland following the Man in Black (Will Smith recast ) across the desert … A breaker kid is mentioned … Also a lot of cast from book V1 "song of susannah" yes that person that isnt cast … hence does this mean Spidder Boy also snipped from story along with OY ..

Sadly I have the feeling fans of Stephen King who have read this epic will feel short changed. But for folk that cant read and know nothing of these books or the plot line wont know so they may well like this abridged version … I just hope that like with Tolkien's Lord of the Rings (also within my life time ) Someone will pick up these books and do them justice by creating the full series .. Mayhap including some of the side Stories as well to fill every one in as well as for the Constant Reader MR King thanks at the end of his novels … Instead of Cherry Picking for the fast buck

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[–] joannatn 8 years ago

Okay, Eddy, you're losing me... The movie isn't supposed to be about the entire story. Yes, elements from subsequent books have been pulled and utilized in this movie (or so we've been led to believe), but since it's supposed to be based primarily on the first book, of course Roland would have all of his fingers. Of course Eddie and Susannah aren't going to be there yet. They have been confirmed for a sequel. Furthermore, they're going to be doing an entire separate televised series for Wizard and Glass, so we'll even get to see the flashback novel apart from the movie. It seems like a great idea. I would be totally against them trying to do a film about the whole thing, but that isn't the case.

Don't get me wrong here. You have every right to dislike this project. I just have a hard time following your path up there.

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

Humm ok I will go along with what you have said so far but it has made things like the Detta .. Eddy and the lobstrosity saga void but then again from the photo's that have been released it seems that all of that has been swept under the rug …. Roland has fingers … and to add more in accuracies erm speed loaders and chambers for what should be a antique set of firing irons …

Now there is photos that have revealed that Jake indeed starts to lose his marbles, the drawings on his bedroom wall so in theory there are indeed other worlds than this one …. BUT as Eddy &
O/Detta/Susannah don’t appear to be in the cast line up seems that entire book can be thrown out … seems to be tiny snippits from various parts of the epic saga have been snipped and cobbled together to get from … Roland following the Man in Black (Will Smith recast ) across the desert … A breaker kid is mentioned … Also a lot of cast from book V1 "song of susannah" yes that person that isnt cast … hence does this mean Spidder Boy also snipped from story along with OY ..

Sadly I have the feeling fans of Stephen King who have read this epic will feel short changed. But for folk that cant read and know nothing of these books or the plot line wont know so they may well like this abridged version … I just hope that like with Tolkien's Lord of the Rings (also within my life time ) Someone will pick up these books and do them justice by creating the full series .. Mayhap including some of the side Stories as well to fill every one in as well as for the Constant Reader MR King thanks at the end of his novels … Instead of Cherry Picking for the fast buck

Basically what joannatn said. The filmmakers aren't trying to fit the entire series into one movie; we all know that would be impossible. If anything, this movie seems to be a bit of a remix of the beginning of the story we know from the books, pulling in bits from various books throughout the series and relying on The Gunslinger, the Jake portions of The Drawing of the Three, and The Dark Tower in particular. However, the filmmakers have said that assuming this movie does well, Eddie and O/Detta/Susannah (and presumably Oy) are guaranteed for the sequel. Plus, as was already mentioned, the filmmakers announced a Wizard and Glass TV series that will accompany the movies, so it definitely looks like they're planning for future productions.

With any luck, it looks like DT fans will have a lot to look forward to. In the meantime, if you - or anyone else - want to read up on this movie, EW (Entertainment Weekly) did a huge cover story for it for SDCC.

http://ew.com/article/2016/07/27/dark-tower-ew-complete-coverage/

Hope this helps. :)

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Yes, am implying the change was to be politically correct.

Oh, okay. "Just because." Gotcha.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] meleractor 8 years ago

Once some characters (and their traits) have been established, the basic facts should remain unchanged.

👍👍👍👍

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[–] Kyumonryu 8 years ago

Muhammad Ali

so at what point of the story did you think that Roland is an actual real person?

Get help

...but they hung him anyway.
Hanged, Ami. Your father was not a tapestry.

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[–] joannatn 8 years ago

I'm just wondering at what point Roland ended up with a W in his name... Or is that one of those changes I haven't heard about yet? I mean, those crazy kids are doing some strange things, after all!

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[–] garyleigh-661-284912 8 years ago

A typo is just a typo.

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[–] simonpaulbeecher 8 years ago

Fed up of discussing this topic. Time to move on.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

The film this message board is concerned with will debut in half a year or so. So, these "debates" are going to crop up again and again...

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/flat/264838956

Ho-lee crap .

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] simonpaulbeecher 8 years ago

You're right captain this topic will continue to be discussed endlessly, probably by newbies to the saga.
Just had my fill of it, that's all.
Accepted it, and moved on ??

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

It is a shame that IMDB does not permit F.A.Q. threads to be stuck at the top of message boards. Such an option would help cut down on the deluge of superfluous questions/complaints.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] simonpaulbeecher 8 years ago

I'd drink to that idea ?

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

It is a shame that IMDB does not permit F.A.Q. threads to be stuck at the top of message boards. Such an option would help cut down on the deluge of superfluous questions/complaints.

Yeah, a pinned FAQ would be nice. Don't know why this didn't occur to any of us before, but those here who are interested could help put together a Dark Tower Movie FAQ thread. It could include links to articles, interviews, etc., and people could contribute more info as it's released. Not sure how much it would cut down on the most common questions and complaints, but at least people would have something to link to.

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[–] brett_md 8 years ago

I don't have time to read and analyze facts! I saw/heard/read something, that my brain is telling me I don't like, and I need to vent NOW!! Roland! The reason for my very life, BLACK?! How dare they! They can't change MY Roland!

I got paid for this post.

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

LOL! But the sad thing is I guarantee we're going to see much more of that kind of posting the closer we get to the release date. We'll probably see a decent spike after an official trailer is released.

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[–] brett_md 8 years ago

Oh yeah, we haven't seen anything yet.
We're at least partially prepared for it, since we've been dealing with the ignorance since the start. I feel bad for the newer members to this board, that will have witness and deal with stupidity as it intensifies.
Let us all stand true.

I'm still a big believer in that "ignore" button, for the really stubborn 'spiders' of this world. I mean, some just need to hear reason and move on, others just want fights. Ain't nobody got time for that!

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[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

This is true lol. But yeah, I think I've been steeling myself for the influx for months now. We all know it's not a matter of "if," but "when."

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[–] Spider198 8 years ago

Well maybe they should have cast Roland better and not pulled a PC publicity stunt (for which they could play the anyone who doesn't like it is racist card). Then not only would the film's prospects have been much better but the topic wouldn't have kept coming up.

Want to blame anyone for people being annoyed by them changing Roland's race, blame the useless director and that hack Goldsman. Along with idiot Elba for not having enough self awareness to realise he shouldn't take the part.
Don't blame the people making legitimate complaints.

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[–] nerevar59 8 years ago

This must please all the SJW's out there. Especially the one's on this thread.

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[–] jerryhammond38 8 years ago

Why toss around labels? We didn't do the casting, and I think most of us focus our social conscience on more important things. Complaining certainly doesn't get you anywhere.

Maybe you meant super jugged women. That would make your statement much more interesting.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

What I find humorous is this notion that film studio executives are making these decisions to "please" anyone or "push an agenda".

They're operating a business, plan and simple.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

Yeah, pandering helps the business, doesn't it?

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

I can hear your engorged amygdala beating...beating like the Tell-tale Heart.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

Stick to the topic. Pandering is exactly what helps the business, isn't it?

Look what they tried to do with Suicide Squad after the reaction to BvS. Pandering fail.

My bodily functions have nothing to do with that.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

You might have had a point...once upon a time.

Thing of it is, this film was in development hell for close to a decade. During that time, it was passed around from director to director like a hot potato and many Caucasian/white actors were considered for Roland (some more willing to tackle the role than others).

It wasn't as if studio executives or the director came right out after news about the movie started circulating in the magazines/on the internet and said "Lol, we're casting a black guy as Roland Deschain to anger fans."

I am going to back whomever it was that basically said that the studio went with Elba because he was becoming a hot name in Hollywood. Luckily for us, he has the acting chops to become the last gunslinger of Gilead.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] Spider198 8 years ago

You clearly never get tired of being wrong, because nothing in that post is accurate... I suppose that's a skill in itself, to ramble so long and say nothing worth reading.

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[–] edc9781 8 years ago

well then two of the producers must be wrong too

http://deadline.com/2016/09/ron-howard-brian-grazer-the-beatles-eight-days-a-week-the-dark-tower-stephen-king-idris-elba-matthew-mcconaughey-1201812029/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Tower_(2017_film)

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

Don't waste your time with Spider, ed. He reacts to facts like a vampire reacts to garlic.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] Spider198 8 years ago

All I do is point out the facts to you Wesker, you are just too deluded to see them.

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[–] Spider198 8 years ago

You actually believe the cr*p they spout? Did you miss when Goldsman already called everyone against idiot Elba's casting racist?

It's so obviously PC casting, it's why they've already played the race card. And for anyone that actually believes the morons involved in this film when they say they've read the books I have some magic beans I'm selling.

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[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

What I find humorous is this notion that film studio executives are making these decisions to "please" anyone or "push an agenda".

They're operating a business, plan and simple.

That comment is still a bit stupid, or at least completely ignorant about how large film studios work.

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[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

That comment is still a bit stupid

Only if you buy into paranoid conspiracy theories.

Feel free to ignore this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/board/flat/264765872?d=264953937#264953937) post, by the way.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

You do realise that movies exist to please people, right? So what's so laughable about studios making a movie to please an audience and even pandering to them by incorporating something that supports a popular agenda?

They're a form of entertainment, if a person isn't pleased by a movie then that movie has failed them.

What the f*uck are you doing on a movie website if you don't get a fundamental thing like that?

Your story about the pre-production troubles doesn't in any way make the comment of yours which I quoted any less ignorant of the basic function of movies and the ways in which pandering to certain agendas can benefit them in that regard.

Paranoid conspiracy theories? 

Oh yeah, what a mad universe where movies pander to the audience. Imagine if they deleted all the scenes where The Joker abused Harley Quinn just because violence against women might piss off certain groups with certain agendas.. oh wait, THEY DID. And god knows how many examples I could come up with of a movie being made to please people.... maybe every movie ever.

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[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

I'm wondering what they'll do with Susan Delgado. What's the bet that they think a blonde country girl is too white for a black man 

That kind of hypocrisy wouldn't surprise me one bit.

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[–] bigbenjr48 8 years ago

The last name Delgado also sounds (or can be interpreted as) Mexican/Cuban/Dominican/Puerto Rican/Spanish.
For all we know this loophole could have already been taken advantage of by the makers.
So what's the bet that they may think a Latina can be befitting a black man?

Do ya kin?

But thinking back, to hell with a loophole; Susan Delgado could have very well been Latina since it was suggested that Lupe Delgado (a gay Mexican befriended by Father Callahan) may have been Susan Delgado's male twinner (read The Talisman to define 'Twinner').

Does it do-ya if a black Roland race-mixes if this be the case, or do you just have a problem with the white?

Black History Will Now Be Accepting Martyrs👮

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[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

It would still be exploiting a loophole because she's clearly described as someone who would look like a younger version of Rachel Evan Woods' character in Westworld and also beautifully illustrated that way in "Gunslinger Born", based off of her description in the novels. At this point I'm just laughing at how predictably "safe" the producer (Akiva Gildsman is pretty much scum in my eyes, producer of cheap cash grabbing movies and Oscar bait) is playing it.

Also, I've read The Talisman and it's sequel (was it called Black House? Gonna' have to re-read that one) so I'm familiar with Twinners. All bullsh*it aside, all I can hope for now is that it's a cool movie in its own right, yah ken?

Anyway, someone said Susan has been cast so let's see if she's blonde..

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[–] tinasparklesau 8 years ago

Alex McGregor is already cast as Susan and she is Caucasian.

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[–] bigbenjr48 8 years ago

If Al Pacino can portray a Cuban in Scarface, then....well...

Black History Will Now Be Accepting Martyrs👮

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[–] SpringheelJack_fin 8 years ago

I see, good of them to not change her race to "better suit" Roland's, but in the words of Patrick's bateman, she's "not quite blonde".

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[–] edc9781 8 years ago

yes, that would be indeed a nice twist to the story.

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[–] davekmrhys 8 years ago

Will a black Roland like being called 'white meat'? by a white girl?

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[–] joannatn 8 years ago

No, he'll probably be called a race traitor or she'll find something else to call him considering her hatred of him in the first placed was based on the "rape" of her mind and the fact she was taken against her will. Girlfriend's cray. She was going to hate him no matter what; she simply used the fact he was a white boy as her reason since it was the easiest one for her to jump to.

They are not going to make Odetta/Detta/Susannah white.

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