MovieChat Forums > Young Adult (2011) Discussion > Beth was a jerk.

Beth was a jerk.

posted 13 years ago by peterw5
117 replies | jump to latest

I'm kind of surprised that people are acting like Beth is somehow a good person, glossing over all the vindictive stuff she does. First, she sends Mavis, who happens to be Buddy's ex-girlfriend from high school, the notice about Beth and Buddy's new baby. I don't see why Beth would send this to Mavis, who she and Buddy are not friends with, except as a vindictive message to Mavis that Beth won and Mavis lost; Beth got Buddy and Mavis didn't. Beth wanted to get back at Mavis for being the popular girl in high school.

Then Mavis, who is clearly a mess, comes back to town to try to get Buddy back. Mavis's intentions are so clear, and her alcoholism so transparent, that everyone in town can see it. So instead of confronting her or, (gasp), trying to help her, everybody laughs at her behind her back. Beth gets Buddy to invite her to their gig so that she and her friends can laugh at how pathetic Mavis has become. Then Beth invites Mavis to the baby naming ceremony too, knowing full-well that Mavis is an alcoholic trainwreck and is trying to steal her husband. Why would Beth do this? So that she can laugh at Mavis and feel superior. I bet Beth was secretly hoping that Mavis would make a scene and embarass herself the way she did just so everyone could see how pathetic the old prom-queen had become. Beth and her friends wanted to see Mavis fail because they hated that she was the popular girl in high school. Beth, and a lot of other people in the town, were getting sadistic pleasure out of seeing how the once popular and powerful Mavis had fallen from grace. They enjoyed "feeling sorry" for her and feeling superior to her. If they didn't then they might have actually tried to help her with her problems instead of laughing at her behind her back.

Note: Just to be clear. I'm not saying that Mavis isn't a jerk herself. Mavis is clearly a jerk. I'm just saying that Beth (and many of the featured townspeople) are jerks too, and nobody seems to be acknowledging that.

[–] luwall13 11 years ago

I just finished watching this and i thought the exact same thing! I felt like beth was dangling buddy from a string in front of mavis - making him call her, hang out with her, have her drive him home??? And if beth did know about mavis' miscarriage what a lousy thing to do to her sending her that announcement.... just the meanest thing a woman could do to another woman - I don't care if mavis was the bitchy prom queen, that is inexcusable and started this entire trip to rock bottom for mavis. Maybe it was a long time coming but beth certainly instigated it and stupid buddy didn't have the heart to stop being a tease to mavis

And yes mavis was a jerk - but so was beth and so was buddy - matt was the only good person in this movie.

[–] gvytui 11 years ago

It's common for couples that close to share email contacts. I'm sure she just sent out a mass email from all her contacts, which included all of Buddy's, without even realizing Mavis was on the list. Remember, the last the last anyone from Mercury heard about Mavis, she was married and living in the big city, so not like a baby-notification email was going to be great 'revenge' to a woman who they all felt lived a "cool" life.

Now it wasn't Beth that invited Mavis to the house for dinner anyway, that would be Buddy after he met Mavis initially and invited her to his house to meet Beth. We see all of Beth's friends in awe of the balls on Mavis to be tagging along and all over Buddy, but Beth never seems to become unnerved by this; she's confident in her relationship with Buddy, enough that she lets Mavis drive him home when he was drunk. Beth was trusting of Mavis, who of course betrayed that trust by trying to make out with Buddy at his house.

Buddy was certainly naive about Mavis throughout the film, but that doesn't make him guilty of being a 'tease'. They had their history, but it was 17 years ago, and each had moved on (he was married with child, she had been married as well). There's no reason to believe Beth would have known about the miscarriage (I personally would never reveal such a detail to another woman), but even still, it was 17 years ago and Mavis had married someone else in that time frame! Beth and Buddy are the type to only want to see the best in people, or try to help those they think might be in need. To interpret that as cruel is most unusual given all we know about the characters and their histories.

[–] writegirl1-2 11 years ago

I agree, I'm a little dismayed this is a point of contention for so many people, because I thought it was all quite clear if an audience member is intelligent enough to draw inferences, like we used to be required to do in English and literature classes, instead of having everything spelled out for them like ABCs. For example, how is Teenage Fanclub cover Beth’s intentional slap at Mavis? Is Buddy really supposed to remember every mixtape he made someone almost 20 years ago? He didn’t even remember Mavis gave him a BJ to the strains of the song, it’s a huge stretch to think that he somehow would’ve conveyed to his wife that this was he and Mavis’s song – are we supposed to think Beth was there for the “our song” moments or something? I think that’s just “Beth and Buddy share the same musical tastes and Mavis doesn’t like that at all, because she thinks Buddy’s musical tastes are precious and shared with her alone.” Maybe this is a young-old generation gap divide, because there are plenty of songs an ex introduced me to but I take pleasure in introducing other people to them, not hugging them close to my heart and keeping them secret(s). IMO, Teenage Fanclub is a big favorite with Buddy, he has shared that favoritism with two women. Nothing more, nothing less. It is special to Mavis because of her arrested mental development.

The entire movie is, IMO, showing us that Buddy has moved on and has no hangups, indulging in the kiss on the porch regardless, he barely could be said to have responded to the kiss actually, and he wasn't hankering for more. When Mavis went in for a second kiss he facepalmed her. Buddy has been doing the bare minimum, without actually putting his hands on Mavis and shoving her away from him when they try to spend time together, to indicate "I don't want to spend any time with you beyond as friends". In fact, from Buddy's lack of reaction I'm not so certain we're supposed to think that Buddy even remembers Mavis miscarried his child. I know that's a bit of a stretch but it is almost 20 years, maybe Buddy has memory problems. While I know that part of this is the structure of the scene and film, the one thing they never do is give Mavis any reassurances that things are as she remembers them. She hollers "Don't you remember how inseparable Buddy and I were, [Buddy's mom]? Don't you? Don't you?" The townsfolk's silence on this point speaks volumes. Apparently what Diablo Cody wants us to take away from that scene, is that the only person in town who thinks that she and Buddy were that close, is Mavis. Delusional Mavis still living in a dreamworld. I mean, she returns and the first thing her dream man tells her is that he still works his old job, eats lunch with his father daily, who still works his old job at the same place - "pizza. Or sometimes submarine sandwiches." Nothing could scream more clearly from jump that Buddy is not the man for Mavis, who runs from her cousin and doesn't bother to check in with her own parents for days. She would loathe living in Mercury and seeing her parents every day for lunch. I don't think we're ever supposed to sympathize with Mavis until the miscarriage revelation, and the heartbreaking apparent truth that nobody else remembers this bit of ancient history.

[–] orangeandyellow 11 years ago

i have to say that i did not get the same impression that you did about beth. i thought she was generous with mavis. she showed maturity in inviting her to the party, the concert, etc.

i honestly don't think that buddy or beth realized what mavis' motives were until she tried to kiss buddy and then made that speech at the party…

i guess everyone sees things differently.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Suriname86 11 years ago

I don't think the intention was for Beth to be ambiguous or malicious; which is which is why I consider it an oversight by the writers. No woman, no matter how naive, would send a baby announcement to an ex girlfriend with whom no one in their circle has maintained contact with unless it was to be spiteful. The fact that it clearly wasn't intended to be spiteful is just unrealistic.

[–] sweet-ass-gal 11 years ago

Although that wasn't my original interpretation of the movie I'm intrigued by your take on Beth. Knowing how malicious and manipulative some women can be I can see that plot actually working itself out! Bravo!

[–] fluffchop 10 years ago

I'm kind of surprised that people are acting like Beth is somehow a good person, glossing over all the vindictive stuff she does. First, she sends Mavis, who happens to be Buddy's ex-girlfriend from high school, the notice about Beth and Buddy's new baby. I don't see why Beth would send this to Mavis, who she and Buddy are not friends with, except as a vindictive message to Mavis that Beth won and Mavis lost; Beth got Buddy and Mavis didn't. Beth wanted to get back at Mavis for being the popular girl in high school.

Then Mavis, who is clearly a mess, comes back to town to try to get Buddy back. Mavis's intentions are so clear, and her alcoholism so transparent, that everyone in town can see it. So instead of confronting her or, (gasp), trying to help her, everybody laughs at her behind her back. Beth gets Buddy to invite her to their gig so that she and her friends can laugh at how pathetic Mavis has become. Then Beth invites Mavis to the baby naming ceremony too, knowing full-well that Mavis is an alcoholic trainwreck and is trying to steal her husband. Why would Beth do this? So that she can laugh at Mavis and feel superior. I bet Beth was secretly hoping that Mavis would make a scene and embarass herself the way she did just so everyone could see how pathetic the old prom-queen had become. Beth and her friends wanted to see Mavis fail because they hated that she was the popular girl in high school. Beth, and a lot of other people in the town, were getting sadistic pleasure out of seeing how the once popular and powerful Mavis had fallen from grace. They enjoyed "feeling sorry" for her and feeling superior to her. If they didn't then they might have actually tried to help her with her problems instead of laughing at her behind her back.

Note: Just to be clear. I'm not saying that Mavis isn't a jerk herself. Mavis is clearly a jerk. I'm just saying that Beth (and many of the featured townspeople) are jerks too, and nobody seems to be acknowledging that.

Yes I agree with most of that stuff. See a lot of people, mainly stupid ones, want to pretend that being trapped in marriage with a newborn doesn't suck balls. These are the people who don't see your point of view, which happens to be the truth of the matter.

Mavis is the talk of the town, the most successful person from Hicksville because she managed to get out. So Beth is a total bitch who wants to rub it in her face that she snagged the man of Mavis's dreams. She probably knew about the miscarriage which is why she is such a cow for sending the baby announcement. Why would she know? because if a 20 year old loses a baby the whole town would know about it.

I don't agree that Mavis is a jerk in any way shape or form. She and Paton Oswalt's character were the only sane ones in the movie. Everyone else was a brain dead moron. Beth was a totally fake bitch who will never be anything but enslaved by marriage until she gets a divorce which will leave her totally bitter. Then she will realise just how awesome Mavis really is because Mavis is the only character that showed any growth.

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Scientologists love Narnia, there's plenty of closet space.

[–] al666940-3 9 years ago

I mean, did everybody who thinks different miss the last scene?!!!!

She is encapsulating the movie's message: the apparently happy little people ARE spiteful and Mavis DOES have it better (it's the same message from TAAHM: Charlie Harper does have it better than Alan and Melvin).

Go through all the cues in the movie and tell me I'm wrong:
- She was the prettiest girl in town and made it out. Some people WILL resent her just for that (there are such people).
- The town is portrayed as a dump indeed, giving credence to the notion that getting out IS an achievement.
- Beth sending picture of her kid to people she clearly is not friends with IS a giveaway. NO woman (who isn't a celebrity) shares something so intimate with strangers or people she actually dislikes unless it's to either show off/spite.
- Same logic with Beth inviting Mavis (they are not friends and never were). What kind of woman invites strangers and even past rivals to such event? Inviting her didn't even cross her ex lover's mind (he clearly sees it as inappropriate and awkward). It's obviously not a good will gesture.
- Buddy being (apparently) oblivious to Mavis' intentions (getting back together) and his wife's (spiting Mavis) means he either is a 100% clueless fool no woman would look twice, or that he actually liked the attention (he waited until the last moment to reject Mavis' advances, until then he had no problem getting himself in clearly inappropriate situations with an old flame) and thus is also a jerk ("she pushed it out" tell you everything you need to know about how he feels about his newborn unless English is his second language and was referring to the drumset).
- "She felt sorry for you". Why would she unless for jealousy and spite? They were never friends.
- Sandra's speech: why else would she say such a thing if not true? Just telling Mavis what she thinks Mavis wants to hear to convince her to take her with her? It's absurd (they are not friends). She is clearly stating what she really believes in admiration of Mavis.

To pretend different is absurd and naive. Like pretending poor people are happy being poor and rich people are miserable being rich. I'm sure some are, but they are not the majority (if they were you would see rich people all over giving away their riches to become poor by choice, and poor people merrily going about their poverty without a care in the world), the same holds true of hick townspeople.

This movie was Mavis getting a reality check to get her to realize she DOES have it better, no matter her current problems (nobody is problem free).

[–] NeedysBoy 9 years ago

"This movie was Mavis getting a reality check to get her to realize she DOES have it better..."

Except, of course, that Beth has everything that Mavis ever wanted: A baby, Buddy, a meaningful career, friends in a smalltown that actually care for her...

 "Maybe it's another dimension. Or, you know, just really deep." --Needy

[–] al666940-3 9 years ago

"Beth has everything that Mavis ever wanted: A baby, Buddy, a meaningful career, friends in a smalltown that actually care for her"

Let's take one by one:
- Baby: if Marvis really wanted one today, she would have it (plenty single moms with no hubby attached prove this in real life, they want the baby but not the hubby if they feel he's going to be an abusive/worthless idiot).
- Buddy: same thing. Nobody waits 20 years for something they REALLY want. This was her mid-life crisis: trying to get back her youth. Once she saw it was pointless, she couldn't care less for Buddy.
- Meaningful career: compare Beth's job against Mavis's and tell me again who's got it better, career wise.
- Friends in a small town that care for her: the last thing Marvis wants is that type of people, as either friends or lovers. Otherwise she would have never left.

See? You'll have to do better than that (like I don't know, address my points like I did yours)

[–] NeedysBoy 9 years ago

Your points aren't that strong.

Baby: It's pretty clear that Mavis never got over the loss of her child... (not a child, but Buddy's child.)

Buddy: Buddy has moved on, Mavis has not. Mavis is the one who thinks that after 20 years, Buddy hasn't gotten over her. her delusional pursuit of a happily married man is pathetic.

Career: This one is easy -- Beth teaches handicapped children to live better lives; Mavis writes books about self-absorbed teenagers that nobody reads. Her career is a joke.

Friends: Beth has friends, Mavis has none. Except for her dog, Mavis is alone.
And while Mavis spends the whole movie running down the town, guess what? Everything she cares about is in that town. And it is not the backwater she claims. Beth and Buddy have a gay babysitter -- the town and its people are more "with it" than Mavis claims. And not one person ever says anything negative to Mavis, except Matt. If the town has any faults, it is that the people are too nice.

I believe, in her meltdown, Mavis says to Beth something like, you got my life.

The irony of this film is that Beth is the happy woman with her "all-American" small-town white-picket-fence lifestyle including husband, baby, and career, while Mavis the modern liberated hipster from the big city is a miserable wreck whose only success is in the past and whose only companion is her dog.

 "Maybe it's another dimension. Or, you know, just really deep." --Needy

[–] Hollywoodshack 9 years ago

peterw5, you see motives that aren't in the film. Beth and Mavis were good friends in high school, she thought Mavis would like to visit and help them celebrate their successes. You might have a good handle on Diablo Cody's own revenge fantasies and jealousies. I for one found the film too milked down clean to relate to any of the characters at all.

[–] mikelepost 9 years ago

I think the movie did a poor job of explaining why Buddy or Beth would have Mavis' email address. I could buy the idea that Mavis was a Facebook "friend" of one or the other - I am connected to a lot of people I never spoke with in high school or since, only because they were part of my graduating class. That would have made more sense.

I also had some trouble accepting the idea that Buddy didn't realize that Mavis was after him, and that he thought it would be a good idea to invite her to his wife's show or to the baby naming ceremony. Not to mention the fact that he forgot their kiss. That to me made Buddy out to be completely oblivious.

All that said ... I think those are problems with the screenplay / direction, not any sort of coded message about Beth or Buddy. I never got the sense that either of them were being deliberately passive aggressive or enjoying Mavis' fall. I don't think that was the intention.

[–] Balboasaurus 9 years ago

I got the impression that they invited her because they wanted Mavis to be around old friends and family again. Beth does not seem to be at all apprehensive or spiteful towards Mavis. I don't know, I think they thought it would be good for Mavis. But, Mavis comes with the intention to win back Buddy and mock Beth. She is still back in high school. Buddy and Beth had grown up, put the past behind them, and now want to share their happy news with friends.

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I'm the unsilent majority, bigmouth.