Beth was a jerk.


I'm kind of surprised that people are acting like Beth is somehow a good person, glossing over all the vindictive stuff she does. First, she sends Mavis, who happens to be Buddy's ex-girlfriend from high school, the notice about Beth and Buddy's new baby. I don't see why Beth would send this to Mavis, who she and Buddy are not friends with, except as a vindictive message to Mavis that Beth won and Mavis lost; Beth got Buddy and Mavis didn't. Beth wanted to get back at Mavis for being the popular girl in high school.

Then Mavis, who is clearly a mess, comes back to town to try to get Buddy back. Mavis's intentions are so clear, and her alcoholism so transparent, that everyone in town can see it. So instead of confronting her or, (gasp), trying to help her, everybody laughs at her behind her back. Beth gets Buddy to invite her to their gig so that she and her friends can laugh at how pathetic Mavis has become. Then Beth invites Mavis to the baby naming ceremony too, knowing full-well that Mavis is an alcoholic trainwreck and is trying to steal her husband. Why would Beth do this? So that she can laugh at Mavis and feel superior. I bet Beth was secretly hoping that Mavis would make a scene and embarass herself the way she did just so everyone could see how pathetic the old prom-queen had become. Beth and her friends wanted to see Mavis fail because they hated that she was the popular girl in high school. Beth, and a lot of other people in the town, were getting sadistic pleasure out of seeing how the once popular and powerful Mavis had fallen from grace. They enjoyed "feeling sorry" for her and feeling superior to her. If they didn't then they might have actually tried to help her with her problems instead of laughing at her behind her back.

Note: Just to be clear. I'm not saying that Mavis isn't a jerk herself. Mavis is clearly a jerk. I'm just saying that Beth (and many of the featured townspeople) are jerks too, and nobody seems to be acknowledging that.

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I agree with you completely. I can't imagine anything more bitchy than sending a baby announcement to your husband's ex-girlfriend (that you don't keep in contact with) who also happened to miscarry your husband's baby years before. If you're so concerned about someone's well-being, a simple "Hi, how are you?" would have made sense. But then, it is a movie, and in movies women invite ex-girlfriends to their baby-naming ceremonies out of the blue because they are kind. Doesn't happen much in real life.

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I watched Young Adult yesterday for the 2nd time. And my thoughts on Beth did not really change that much. She isn't a saint (who is?) but I don't see any actual malice. I think the baby announcement must have been a mass email (I can't remember) so maybe Mavis getting wasn't a direct invitation; she was just part of the mass. Also Mavis was married but no one knew she was divorced; Beth probably thought Mavis was happy and had moved on. After all, it had been like 15 years since Buddy and Mavis broke up. A normal person (not someone clinging to high school) would have gotten over a high school romance.

Beth is nice, un-selfish, and polite. She's the opposite of Mavis. What I love about this movie is that they could have made Beth into some bitchy jealous catty sexist stereotype but instead she was kind and understanding.

"It's hard for me to watch American Idol because I have perfect pitch."
-Jenna, 30 Rock

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[deleted]

Beth and Mavis are the exact opposite

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The beauty of Beth is we don't get to know who she really is. She may have been messing with Mavis or it could just be part of Mavis' delusion, it wasn't clear. If she was a saint then so be it. In any case, it didn't really matter because Mavis never had a chance against her.

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You're correct, of course, but the writers demonstrated no understanding of the tacit irony they created, no suggestion that they intended to portray Beth Incorporated as anything other than an emblem of enviable whitebread respectability.

Oh whisky, leave me alone.

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I definitely love this thread for at least thinking it possible that Beth knew what she was doing. At least a nice attempt at thinking of another possibility.

I personally believe that the movie would be far more likely to show that at the end of the day both Beth and Mavis are two sides of the same coin. They both want to stay/or in Mavis' case return in the small-town bubble because for Mavis it was her glory days where she was the queen bee, the big fish and for Beth it is were she knows that she has a community behind her, friends to relive their glory days as they move on (what else would the band be but that?). The difference is that Mavis cannot move on and Beth is moving on but not in the way that previous generational adults would have: she still wants to rock out, pump and dump etc. They are probably both jerks in their own right but the difference between the two is that Mavis it stems from her inability to grow out of her "glory days", her self-centeredness, selfishness and for Beth it comes from feeling vindictive because she wants to stick it to the "queen bee" not only for herself but those who were screwed over by Mavis.

But then I think for me all I think is that who wouldn't want to stick it back to the person who made your life hell in high school, who made your friends' life hell in high school? I think most people would definitely have had that thought running through their head. I believe in Beth's case she simply knows how to keep it as inward thoughts as opposed to actually lashing out, scheming etc.

However I do believe that the film leaves it ambiguous enough so that a person brings whatever they want to the film and leave with whatever they want. If people want to believe that this is a story of good versus evil, or saint versus sinner then the story is that of a pious, innocent Beth who only did what she did as what was expected her in small town civility to show how down-trodden, horrible, selfish, self-centered Mavis was in high school and her inability to "grow" up hence her writing Young Adult novels. I think that people are shades of gray, everyone has an agenda, everyone has deep down thoughts of selfishness, vindictiveness etc however most people know how to keep it as mere thoughts or move on and some like Mavis clearly have problems.

Basically regarding the baby announcement I personally see Beth typing the emails as a person would because of civility but I can imagine her having inward thoughts maybe a small smirk of victory to know that she got Buddy and Mavis didn't. However because she has a life, has moved on yet still wants to live out her glory days it does not fester much more than that... the way it goes for most people.

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Although I disagree with the OP's premise--that Beth invited Mavis over, hoping she would blow up so she and her friends could secretly laugh at her--it is an interesting hypothesis.

It would explain why Beth sent her the photo, and why she let Mavis drive Buddy home. This seemed to me the most unrealistic scene. Her and her bandmates are hostile (rightly so) towards Mavis during the show, deliberately singing a song to embarass her in front of the bar. I did feel a bit sorry for Mavis at that point.

However, after the show, instead of guarding her husband, she decides to stay and party and let his ex-girlfriend drive him home? WTF? That makes no sense. Unless, it is like the OP said and she was deliberately setting her up. Either that, or Beth is a dunderhead.

It would also explain why Beth insisted that Mavis come to the baby-naming party. It seems clear she knows Mavis kissed Buddy. Why else would she want her there? Again, dunderhead still possible.


In spite of this, however, I think it is too unlikely that Beth would have taken such chances and been able to anticipate such outcomes.

Mavis is prettier and more successful than Beth. How could Beth be sure that Mavis wouldn't steal Buddy away? Also, there is no way of knowing how Mavis would react at the party. Maybe Beth was just hoping to laugh at her behind her back, hoping some kind of incident would occur. But there was no guarantee that would happen. Most likely, nothing would. Did Beth know she would spill wine on Mavis's silk blouse? Or maybe she did it deliberately. Even if you believe that, it would have been tough to set that up. Maybe she was just planning to spill something on her. Who knows?

Anyway, it seems like Beth is either incredibly smart and vindictive, or she's the opposite of that--extraordinarly kind and dull.

I guess I'm going with dunderhead, but I'm starting to like the ambiguity of this film.



Walt: I'm gonna need some assurance.
Mike: Well, I assure you I can kill you from way over here.

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***Spoilers ahead***

There was a lot of ambiguity in this movie which is part of its charm. it's a movie for thinkers like me. I'm guessing that Beth had a lot of people watching her back as though Beth was welcome in the small town while Mavis became an outsider. the people protecting Beth include her bandmates, the babysitter, and Buddy's mother. I'm not so sure it was just bad timing when the babysitter interrupts the kiss between Beth and Buddy or when Beth spills wine on Mavis' dress. The latter incident plus the subsequent blow-up would make Beth look like a victim in Buddy's eyes, ensuring that Mavis would be out of their lives for good.

**Please refrain from responding to my commentary as I am not looking for either disagreement or affirmation of my thoughts. **

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I'm not sure if I would exactly call those people Beth's protectors. I would call them her friends. But, in a sense we are both kind of touching the same point.....Mavis no longer had any real friends in the town due to a) the fact she has been gone for a number of years and, b) she was never a really likable person in the first place.

I would not go so far as to call Beth a victim in the wine stain scene....but I will say that Mavis comes off looking like and ass, and Beth does not. I agree that Mavis would no longer be welcome in Beth and Buddy's circle ever again....she burned that bridge for good with the drunken scene she threw.

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Inviting her to make fun of her seems like a paranoid theory but it explains the biggest open questions:

Why does the wife sends the photo of the baby to the ex? IIRC the email also read sth like "come to see it"...

Why is first concert song (which she dedicates to his husband) "the song" of him and his ex?

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The photo: I'm blaming motherhood, twice.

First, I've gotten photo updates on new babies from women I barely know, because new mothers are proud and eager to share it.

Second, though Mavis isn't in town, her own parents still are, and her mother reveals they've seen the baby. Up close, even. I can easily picture Mavis's (somewhat obtuse) mother suggesting that Mavis would love to see that adorable baby, since she and Buddy were so close.

The concert song: to Mavis, it's 'their' song. Buddy doesn't seem to remember it that way, but he seems to be into it, so it's more likely just a favorite song--something Beth and her friends would know, too. (Though that line about the Pill adds weird nuances...)

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The actress who played in 'Observe and Report' said it- people in small towns are jealous of those in the big city (Minneapple). I can somewhat relate to Mavis. I left a small town and I hardly speak to anyone who's still there. They don't call, email, inquire- nothing. They're so jealous that the only news that would be interesting is if I died. Sometimes the city is glamorous because it's unknown- but everyone in the city wants to leave on the weekend. Checkout downtown Chicago on a Sunday afternoon. All tourists, mostly. Conversely, the folks in the country want to go to the city once in awhile. Humans tend to covet what they don't have or at the very least 'check-in' to make sure the other side isn't living better. It's cruel and pathetic, but that's how people are.

Mavis had to go home, however, to realize how short-sighted she was for being so shallow and esp how she has chosen to deal with the miscarriage by self-destructive behaviors.

I did NOT like that she gave Patton Oswalt's character a 'mercy lay'- that was too predictable and Cody must have been running into a case of writer's block at that point. Maybe it was the studio to make it racy by showing Theron naked, I dunno. It was in the poorest of taste and did nothing to advance the story.

"There's no body to batter when your mind is your might" -Fiona Apple “When the Pawn Hits”

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I left a small town and I hardly speak to anyone who's still there. They don't call, email, inquire- nothing. They're so jealous that the only news that would be interesting is if I died.


They're not ignoring you because they're jealous. They're ignoring you because they couldn't care less about you. Judging from the rest of your rant, I can see exactly why.

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somebody should give you a mercy lay :)

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I didn't see it as a "mercy lay", I am not saying she was physically attracted to him, but I don't think she did it as a favor, that's not in her nature, I think there are many reasons why she might have done so, she was vulnerable,felt lonely and rejected, publicly humiliated, depressed, and needed some warmth, a human touch. He also knew her at what she considered her prime and idolized her, and maybe she did feel somewhat sorry for him about the sexual dysfunction he mentioned.

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I agree with this. And it seemed to me like Matt was the only person in the film Mavis liked or could be friends with. He also wasn't afraid to be blunt and basically tell her that she was being stupid. High school scarred them both, but in different ways.



I got punched in the face. What's your excuse?

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