Beth was a jerk.

Why don't you actually rebut my points instead of just making lazy, snarky remarks?

I believe he paid close attention to the movie he did watch, instead of deciding that Mavis was BAD so BETH had to be good.

I completely agree.

Okay, you're right that it was Buddy who sent the baby announcement. I guess I missed that.

I'm not sure that Beth didn't know that Mavis was after Buddy though. Mavis was making it pretty obvious, dolling herself up, wanting alone time with Buddy, and whatnot. And let's say that Beth wasn't aware of Mavis's intentions with Buddy. It was certainly clear to Buddy after Mavis drove him home and kissed him. When Beth wanted to invite Mavis to the baby naming ceremony wouldn't Buddy have told Beth that Mavis had been coming on to him? Wouldn't Buddy have told her that to try to get Beth from inviting Mavis? And yet Beth made Buddy invite her anyway. Why? I'm guessing so that she and her friends, (you know, the ones that called Mavis a 'prom-queen psycho bitch'), could ogle Mavis as she pathetically tried to seduce Buddy and makes a drunken fool of herself. Beth wasn't threatened by Mavis because Mavis was such a wreck, and she trusted that Buddy wouldn't go for her. But Beth wanted to see Mavis fail. Beth might have rationalized to herself that what she was feeling for mavis was pity, but in order to pity someone you have to judge them as pitiful first, and I'm pretty sure Beth and her friends were getting quite a kick out of seeing Mavis act so pitifully. Feeling sorry for someone and feeling superior to them go hand in hand. Mavis never should have been invited to the baby naming ceremony. The only reason she was invited was so people could stare and laugh and gossip about her behind her back, and then tell themselves that it's okay because they "feel sorry" for her, when really they're getting sadistic pleasure out of watching her be a wreck. To them Mavis is just the entertainment. They don't really care about her, they just want to watch her fail.

I agree with igoldaracena2, I don't think her intentions were bad. I think she was a genuinely good natured person that felt bad and wanted to include her. Not many adults come into town to specifically break up the marriage of a person who just had a baby, so I don't know why Beth would automatically think that about Mavis. Plus, it was her friends that were talking badly about Mavis at the bar, how would Beth know they would do that, for all Beth knew Mavis was successful and happy in the city.

That's the thing, you say her alcoholism and unhappiness was obvious and Beth was rubbing it in, but we as an audience get to see all that, where as from beth's point of view (and remember Beth was only in a few scenes with Mavis) it seemed that mavis was doing well and was just visiting( that's what Mavis told everybody.) Beth was just trying to be polite, she didn't know Mavis was a narcissistic wreck. And the sending of the picture, I know a lot of people are saying that is mean, but I just don't see it that way. It was a group email, they thought Mavis was still married. They figured she had moved on, as most normal people do after 15 years and marriage. And again she probably thought it was polite to include her, and thought she might feel left out if everyone else got a pic from her and mavis had to hear about it from someone else,

igoldaracena2 writes:
"So I don't think Beth is a jerk, nor she's a hero."

An anti-hero like Mavis needs a foil.

So, yes. Beth is the hero. She behaves like a hero -- she should hate Mavis for what she does (ruining the party) and for wanting to steal Buddy back -- oh yeah, she knows -- it's a small town. Beth knows about the kiss that the baby sitter saw.

But, Beth rises above petty emotions. I think Beth realizes that if Chance had taken a different turn, she would be in Mavis's shoes -- she would have lost her baby.


"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."

It was shown that the other bandmates clearly hated Mavis's guts for being the Queen Bee back in the day. So it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that Beth was trying to stick it to Mavis for 'insisting' on her being at the party.

We already know that the babysitter was talking in hushed tones to the other bandmates. Presumably the babysitter told them (and Beth) about the kiss the previous night. The script leaves things juuuuust ambiguous enough to speculate.

I don't agree with people calling the theory that Beth is manipulative as a 'completely different movie than anyone else saw'. Such a clear lack of imagination, IMHO.

HEY BABY LOOK AT MY EYES. I LOVE YA BUT I HATE YOUR LIES.

If you freeze frame on the announcement it is clearly from Beth Slade to Mavis.

If you're somewhat of a misanthrope(partial misanthrope?) then I'd imagine you would side with someone like Mavis. I am a hardcore misanthrope and I sided with her situation.

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Arlith writes:
"Everyone had an agenda."

There is no indication that Beth has any agenda other than announcing the birth of her baby.

Anything beyond that would be a supposition.


"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."

I had to read this post based on the subject, because I couldn't fathom how Beth could have been perceived as the jerk in this movie.

Mavis set out to destroy Beth's marriage and Beth wasn't threatened because she had a strong bond with her husband and she thought of Mavis as an old friend from the past. She was very cool about things, like when they meet for the first time at the house and Beth tells them that she too had her old boyfriend's t-shirts etc...

Anyway, Mavis was feeling empty and wanted to fill the void by trying to recapture that feeling of being special from her youth. I am intrigued to find that someone felt Mavis was mistreated by these people, especially Beth, when all Mavis felt for them was contempt.

This wasn't an uplifting movie, but I thought Charlize did an amazing job of playing Mavis.

Kuato_and_George writes:
"How the hell are Buddy and Beth supposed to know what a mess Beth [sic] is?"

Small-town grape vine.

"Buddy said yes to meeting up with Mavis from the get-go. If she was a mess and he knew she was a mess, why would he agree to meet up with her?"

Because Beth and Buddy are too nice to "blow her off," or they wish to avoid a scene like the one at the baby naming ceremony. (Plus, if I'm correct about the parallels with Alcestis, hospitality plays an important part in the action of that play much as it does in YA. So, there may be some sort of social commentary on the indulgence of celebrity misbehavior, hence the Kardashian references in the film.)

"Also, did you not see the shock on everyone's faces at the end when Mavis lost it? Clearly they were all unaware of just how bad she was."

Or perhaps it was empathy or commiseration. I thought this seeing the shot of Buddy's mom. Also, notice how no one else loses it, even though Mavis is ruining the party. Not one person shows anger towards Mavis. No one orders her to shut the eff up, no one orders her to leave. Her mother mildly rebukes her. The rest watch. Beth and Buddy are always the proper hostess and host. Beth especially never responds in kind to Mavis's rant. This is the moment when the ugliness of the town that Mavis hates should come through, but only Mavis is the ugly one; and that says a lot.


"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."

Buddy tells Mavis to her face that everyone knew she was having a breakdown. So yes, they knew.

The entire film is ambiguous, and whether Beth or Mavis was a villain/hero is left to speculation.

We don't know Beth's intentions, and while we do know Mavis' the reasoning behind them is cloudy.

As long as he wouldn't do what you just described - he obviously was the better choice.

"and just so we are clear about this, beautiful people usually have no
empathy to others and their lives. they are used to get whatever they want
without having to fight for it.

what happened to mavis is karma. "

That's a pretty narrow view. Imbued with exactly the same bitterness that the town reserves for Mavis in the film. The film makes the point, among others, that even those who seemingly have everything can go through a great deal of suffering too. That suffering and loneliness are things that affect anyone. In this case it deals with the kind of individual who had all the advantages in high school but once she hits the big wide world complexities take over that plunge her into depression. It's the idea that just because you are beautiful and have 'what everyone wants' in no way guarantees happiness. In fact, it can be quite the opposite.

There are many women with extraordinary beauty who are very lonely for the exact reason that they are beautiful. People are so busy assuming they must have so many friends and lovers and relentless fun that they don't bother giving them the time of day - or they are scared to. Lots of these beauties speak of how lonely they are and how difficult it is to make friends - real friends - because women are suspicious of their powers and often jealous, and men are afraid or seek something more than friendship. Mavis is a reflection of this - lonely, alcoholic, detached and unwilling to face the fact that she is unloved. It's more common than one might think. On top of this, anyone who is, like Mavis, beautiful and relatively successful, is almost always rebuked for complaining about anything - it's like a person like herself is not allowed to have issues because she has been given the luck of a pretty face and a talent. So often this creates an impenetrability about her personality, never admitting to anyone that life actually sucks. It can be very destructive.

And thus she has grown disinterested and cynical and to free herself from this cage she finds a calling to revisit the place, man and time when she last meant something to someone. It's an absurd hope but psychologically people do this all the time - desperately trying to recapture a time when they were at their best and when people held them in esteem. What she finds, of course, is a place that rejected her a long time ago and is happy that her beauty and sophistication doesn't have to stare them in the face anymore. It's a small town thing where everyone's roles are set and the lines are very clearly drawn - Mavis was the bitch to most, like Beth's band members and probably beth too; and the dream to others, like Matt and Sandra. But what is certain is that everyone had a clear idea of who she was in their mind. Like the absurd interest so many people have in celebrities, who are almost always Mavis-type characters in beauty and talent, sophistication etc., a small town obsesses over the beauty queen and her jock boyfriend. It's being a mini-celebrity. So everyone knows them, but they don't really know everyone else. It's the nature of popularity.

So although Mavis is a detached individual who pushes people away and is rude a lot of the time, a lot of this can be explained through the bizarre way people like her are treated. There are lots of perks to her life, but the very common downside is never being sure who her real friends are and the potential downward spiral this can take towards genuine loneliness. This is what Beth and her gang cannot understand and why the invite is very insensitive. Don't reckon Beth is a bad person - but she has got to get some satisfaction from the fact that the most popular girl from yesteryear came to take her husband from her and failed. It's the ultimate victory - beating that hottie who once had everything.