Make the kids an all white cast...
Then people on this board will "sympathize" with the them more.
shareSo true
shareNot true, white chavs earn just as much hate in the UK as any other chavs.
shareScum is scum regardless of colour. These charatcers were impossible to sympathize with. Only Moses even came close out of all of them.
Yeh, which explains why people sympathize with all the white thieves, rogue anti-heroes, mobsters, serial killers and slave owners that have starred in some of the most popular movies and TV shows in Hollywood history. Spare me that nonsense that color doesn't matter. Too much evidence out there proves otherwise.
shareGive some examples cause I've never sympathized with any mobsters or slave owners and I wouldn't for the rest unless they can be redeemed. I think you are mixing up sympathy and liking. I can sympathize with Wesley Snipe's anti-hero Blade but in Demolition Man I couldn't, even though I liked his character. Same with Denzel in Training Day.
@NoMad
THE SOPRANOS---which was hugely popular,despite all the characters being nasty,hateful psychopathic criminals.
All of Guy Ritchie's gangster films (LOCK,STOCK & SMOKING BARRELS,REVOLVER,SNATCH,ROCK 'N ROLLA)which have some horrible, despicable characters in them.
Yeh, which explains why people sympathize with all the white thieves, rogue anti-heroes, mobsters, serial killers and slave owners that have starred in some of the most popular movies and TV shows in Hollywood history. Spare me that nonsense that color doesn't matter. Too much evidence out there proves otherwise.
@NoMad
THE SOPRANOS---which was hugely popular,despite all the characters being nasty,hateful psychopathic criminals.
All of Guy Ritchie's gangster films (LOCK,STOCK & SMOKING BARRELS,REVOLVER,SNATCH,ROCK 'N ROLLA)which have some horrible, despicable characters in them.
Great point there, man, another example is Resevoir Dogs & Pulp Fiction, nearly every character was unlikable but people LOVED those films.
"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens. share
.. and just like that, he was gone...
sharehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDMff22Btk&feature=related
There are far worse examples of Chavs on the internet than this stupid woman mouthing off on the train. It is however, a perfect demonstration that it doesn't matter what color a persons skin is. That woman is basically doing nothing more than voicing some pretty legitimate concerns (as is her right) BUT in a totally inappropriate manner.
She has nobody siding with her in this video, both colored and white people side against her. Not because what she is trying to say is wrong, or because she has no right to say it, but she is inexcusably wrong to verbally attack that poor lady.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I205JZA9vYY&feature=related
The chav hiding his face in this video is white, whether he is some idiot playing up for the camera, or he actually has been out rioting is irrelevant, he's a perfect example of a chav. I haven no idea about the colored guys behind him, maybe they are his friends, or maybe they were just passing and decided to stop and watch the show? either way they at least are not hiding their face, which implies a level of innocence.
You may be right that some people are more sympathetic towards whites? But in my experience Chavs are typically white anyway, and are almost universally hated by anyone who is not a chav. In the case of this movie it would have made no difference if Moses and his gang were white or not they would get the same hatred thrown at them.
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But Luke was never the bad guy, his actions don't need redeeming. He's the little kid from nowhere who overcomes major obstacles in order to do great things and become a hero. Its easy to empathize with him, everyone wants to step up and prove themselves. Its Vader who needs redemption, and its Luke's acts of bravery, integrity, and love that eventually inspires Vader to commit the ultimate sacrifice and rid the universe of its two biggest threats.
Its only when Luke removes the mask and we see how fragile Vader really is that I really even felt any sympathy for him.
You are right though that empathy with a character is vital for a movie, its just that I was unable to empathize with a bunch of male thugs who rob a female nurse at knife point. Whose biggest defense was that they were as scared as she was and they wouldn't have done it it they knew she was their neighbor.
The movie could have worked it it took the time to show that they were good kids struggling in a rough inner city environment. Given a hard time by the police and neighbors because of social stereotyping, these kids that might talk and act tough but in the end they know the difference between right and wrong. They would choose NOT to victimize an innocent young woman, who actually has earned her place by going to school, and now works an ethical job helping her community.
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I never said Luke was an interesting character, just that he's a clear cut good guy, easy to cheer for, and yes flawed characters are more interesting than straight cut heroes like Luke.
Its fine if you can empathize with Moses, that's down to you. You may even consider it a failure on my part that I was unable to. Its not that I can't understand what the movie was trying to do with these kids, its that I feel it failed to portray them sufficiently well. Moses started the film with an cowardly act of violence against an innocent woman, and ultimately when he saved the city, it was to save himself. He was directly responsible for the violence of the creatures anyway, If he hadn't killed that first one, characters who die throughout the movie would most likely have lived.
This is just my opinion and I don't think you are wrong for disagreeing with me, but to reiterate my initial response, Moses skin color has nothing to do with my dislike of him.
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@DR
Funny how people conveniently forget that Moses (or anybody else) didn't know what the hell that thing was when it crash landed near them, and that he attacked the thing only because it attacked HIM first--THAT'S why he and his boys knocked the hell out of that thing in the first place! Sorry, but if something like that went the hell off on me and tried to bite me, I'd bash that head the hell in,too! (I actually thought how they got rid of the creature and showed it off as a trophy was hilarious,BTW.) Plus he had NO way of knowing how or WHY the creatures were coming after them until nearly the end, and then he only discovers that by accident. You act as if he wanted all that happened to happen,which he clearly didn't. And he made up his mind to save not just himself but his whole building,knowing all the while that there was NO guarantee he would be successful or even make it out of there alive. he realized that it wasn't even about him and his boys anymore, it was all about saving the world (his block/hood included)
You keep harping on how Moses and the kids robbed this woman---yeah,that was wrong as hell,nobody's saying it wasn't, but damn,you act as if he pulled a gun on her or something (which was more likely to happen in an American film,first thing). I simply haven't seen this level of rage at WHITE criminals doing even more despicable s*** in other films. Yet this ONE act seems to obliberate all else that they try to make up in this film for you. Hell, I'll bet if the nurse had been a black woman,NOBODY would have been tripping out about that opening scene like it was the end of the damn world or something. You may not be racist, but let's face it---that's the MAIN reason a lot of people on this board hate this film (because the main characters are black,and they're been asked to emphathize with them) and they're made it pretty damn obvious that that's WHY they hate it in the first place!
I read somewhere that chavs were in part fabricated to draw attention away from race matters in the UK (the rationale being that, since chavs are basically young white lowlifes, there is therefore no racial discrimination in the UK). I can't attest to the truthiness of this, as I'm neither a Brit nor have I ever visited.
Manuscripts don't burn.
LMAOROFLMRIATRIANASIAMIO!!!!!!
LOL, this is not true in the least. That's a conspiracy theory made up by racist British nationalists (aka NAZIS). *beep* the BNP.
shareActually, I heard this from a leftist Frenchman. What's the BNP?*
*EDIT: I looked them up. Ewww. *beep* them.
Anyway, the point of the argument was that people of color in the UK were being actively discriminated against. Creating a caste of white "lowlifes" would "prove" that institutional racism didn't exist.
Manuscripts don't burn.
LMAOROFLMRIATRIANASIAMIO!!!!!!
British nationalists are now Nazis? How about Scottish nationalists or black nationalists? No doubt your racist self wouldn't have a problem with them.
shareActually so called Chavs are highly influenced by black American culture...
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It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!
So "chavs" are what we in the US would call "wiggers"?
Manuscripts don't burn.
LMAOROFLMRIATRIANASIAMIO!!!!!!
"So "chavs" are what we in the US would call "wiggers"? "
Not really... there are such folk, who go round pretending to be black but they're something else again... they've just got a heavy black/US influence on them, without doing it deliberately.
"Chav" comes from an old Gypsy word meaning a street urchin. Used in Newcastle on Tyne and thereabouts.
We call them "neds" in Scotland. And worse...
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It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!
Huh. So US black culture is to blame for UK white juvenile delinquency, indirectly? I think I'm missing something here...
Manuscripts don't burn.
LMAOROFLMRIATRIANASIAMIO!!!!!!
"So US black culture is to blame for UK white juvenile delinquency, indirectly?"
I never said that. White juvenile delinquency was about long before then. There were razor gangs in the 1930s UK for example. Nasty stuff long before then.
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It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!
Okay. I was getting worried there...
What factors would you say were behind chav youth?
Manuscripts don't burn.
LMAOROFLMRIATRIANASIAMIO!!!!!!
"What factors would you say were behind chav youth?"
Personally I reckon both the left *and* the right have it wrong.
The right for allowing inner city areas to be run down in the first place, and the left for trying to excuse brutality and crime against ordinary people by gangs and individuals. Both of them tolerate things which should not be tolerated.
Chav youth?
I'd include the following (along with the above)...
Shallow mass media and popular culture.
Misuse of money.
A culture of selfishness against community breakdown.
Lack of jobs, education, prospects etc. Bad education.
A vicious circle of crime and intolerance.
The care home system for children and youths. Completely ineffective and badly run. (I have friends who have been through it. A lot of them end up in a bad way for one reason and another.)
Single parent families. (And before anyone has a go at me, I was in one for a while.) A lot of youth gone bad come from homes where the domestic set up has broken down.
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It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!
I don't think you know what chav means
shareYeah aside from the white chav that is equally hated.
You are actually defending criminals because of the colour of their skin. You are a racist.