What a waste of an idea (SPOILERS)


I really liked the idea behind this movie. A dial of destiny - a relic that can give the power of time travel. A Nazi scientist wants it to time travel to the past and fix the mistakes of hitler to win the war for Germany. Bravo.

But unfortunately, the time travel was limited to just the last 15 minutes of the film and with Indy in a weakened state.

How much better would this be if the Dial was completed much earlier, like the half way point and we saw Indy adventuring in the past. The French Revolution, The American Civil War, Ancient Egypt, the possibilities endless. He could have met himself with a CGI of River Phoenix if this was allowed by whatever legal issue or perhaps they could have worked out a deal to meet a young Sean Connery. He could also travel to modern day and see all the computers and technology and hang out in the modern day for a time.

Instead we get a movie that's 2 and a half hours of car chases and shootings which we saw so much of in the past 4 films. It's really not original at all. There's no thought involved. Just a rehashing of the old films modernized with political correctness to see a female leading action hero.

It's not terrible but it could have been so much better.

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I get what you are saying, but at the same time, what really makes this film click is the sense of wonder about the dial. I was literally on the edge of my seat, like actually leaning forward on the seat's actual edge, as the tension built, and filled with curiosity about what, if anything, the device would do once reassembled. And, despite the intensity of the build-up, the payoff was there.

When they emerged from the time fissure, and slowly flew through the clouds, allowing the audience to catch glimpses of some sort of battle, the intensity was off the charts. Where/when were they? Were they in 1939 Germany? Or somewhere else? And suddenly-- the Siege of Syracuse! The best of all possible outcomes!

A movie with Indiana Jones hopping throughout time sounds fun on paper, but I can easily see it becoming tiresome.

Also, I have to wonder what political correctness you saw at work in the film. I *hate* PC/woke aspects being shoe-horned into films more than anyone, but this film lacked all of that. If anything, I can imagine the PC/woke mob up in arms at what a throwback this is to the era of "toxic masculinity" in film. The only black character is casually shot almost as if an afterthought, and your "female leading action hero" is nowhere to be seen. Instead we have Jones' niece starting out as a selfish, terrible person who thinks she's better than Jones, slowly finding herself relegated to sidekick status, and ending the film being firmly put into her place, and emerging a better person for the experience.

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As opposed to a 2 and a half hour movie that is mostly just moving from one CGI fested backdrop into another with gunfights and car chases not being tiresome?

There's plenty of political correctness. Starting with an African American woman in her 20's being the head of a CIA team in 1969. Unfortunately, they ruin the character by not understanding like the audience can in 2 seconds, that she's working alongside Nazis.

And the Mary sue partner of Indy has some sort of Daddy issues, rather that, Godfather issues. She's capable of memorizing complex historical documents, jumping from building to building, insulting Indy and then punching him in the face because he basically wants to give up and die in the past. Political correctness gone crazy.

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nah I disagree

the running theme in Indiana Jones flicks, consistent with Indy's job as an archaeologist / grave-robber, is that the McGuffin is itself the goal

It gets to "work" just once at the climax of the film

Your suggestion, while very interesting, seems inconsistent with that theme

Imagine a fourth act in "Raiders" where Indy starts using the Ark against random bad guys

Or makes it to out of the cave with the Grail and proceeds to heal soldiers and other characters

Or turns the refrigerator into an invulnerable vehicle and travels the world in it

Doesn't quite fit the franchise -- more like something Joss Whedon might've dreamed up

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And yet, what is James Mangold's most famous sci fi/fantasy movie before Indy?

Logan.

An X-men film that received so much praise from fans and critics and did nice box office and yet broke completely away from the original X-men movies.

Perhaps if the pursuit of the artifact had been better handled like in the original Indiana Jones movies, then it would have better to stick with the formula.

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Nah,your version would've been Indiana Jones Endgame/Indiana Jones to the Future. Fun for a comic book but not a legit IJ film. as has been said in this thread the Mcguffin only works in Indiana Jones right at the end and only briefly, and often Indy doesn't see it or only fleetingly and can't stay around long before it all crumbles away or he has to leave, if anything this time he got to fully experience it, although in a weakened state

I remember some speculation it would be more like you suggest e.g. In one of the trailers it appeared to show Indy and Helena rolling a big boulder and some thought that was the boulder from Raiders they were shoving to make sure it happened right. There were also rumours about deaged Connery/Henry (possible flashback scene or Indy somehow meeting '007 era' Connery) Also early rumours were that Die Glocke/Nazi Bell would be the McGuffin and was assumed to be the way timetravel would happen, which mightve led to multiple timetravel

In the movie there were a couple of hints there may be other time periods (Indy saving his son from Vietnam, and obviously we were expecting to go back to 1939 where Indy would have to somehow stop Voller from killing Hitler. Even right at the end Indy waking up it felt like they might not be in the same time period/surprise end with Shia, maybe they got back earlier or even later.. but no they were back in 69)

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this review talks about how it shouldve revisited previous Indy films

But after two hours of teasing the idea of Indiana Jones traveling back in time, the payoff is letdown. Instead of revisiting, for instance, a moment from Indy’s storied past — it’s so easy to imagine Voller wanting to use the Dial to get the Ark of the Covenant during Indy’s Raiders adventure, or the Holy Grail during Last Crusade, to accomplish his goal of helping the Nazis win World War II — we instead are transported to an ancient Roman battle the audience doesn’t care about. Even Voller’s plan of traveling to 1939 to kill Hitler was a more exciting idea, and for the big climax Voller and Indy are separated and left with nothing to do – except perish in plane crash and get punched out, respectively. (“Continental drift!” should be adopted as a term for whenever a movie or TV show takes an abrupt, disappointing turn). Ultimately, Indy is left in a fine place, yet one wishes the filmmakers could use a Dial of Destiny to go back and rework the film’s third act.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/indiana-jones-movies-ranked-dial-of-destiny-1235528041/


so Indy wouldve gone full BTTF 2/Avengers Endgame revisting Raiders or Crusade ..Indy preventing Voller getting the Ark or Grail.. without changing stuff and running into himself (but we'd already had CGI deaged Indy in the opening..)

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The real problem of waste here is Indy didn't do anything when arriving in the past. Here is a professor who has studied this battle his entire life, perhaps the most knowledgeable man on Earth about the topic, and he contributes absolutely nothing. Instead, the turning point seems to have been flying a busted ass plane around while taking pot shots out the window? I didn't know they were even accomplishing a damn thing till I read about it here on these message boards. In general the entire sequence was confusing. I didn't know who was fighting or why, who the bad guys were and which side were supposed to be rooting for. The romans were bad? I thought the romans were the greatest civilization in history. And what's so great about Arcimedes? He was just some old hermit clockmaker. You can't root the climax of your film in history like this and not explain anything along the way. And in a movie that beats us over the head about Nazis the whole time, there's no commentary about them finally clashing with their divine inspiration? This movie was an outline with no story whatsoever. We should have gotten to the past a lot sooner and the last act should have been Army of Darkness with Indy saving the day with all his future knowledge. And damnit, I would have had him fight a giant snake like Conan. One of the greatest naval combats in history is given pretty short shrift, the legendary mirrors were just a dimestore backdrop, and despite specific dialog about huge metal claws eating ships, we don't even see it. Then I would have had Indy bang a princess with a great viagra joke and it turns out he's his own ancestor. I mean SOMETHING should have happened. The space between spaces!

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