Been thinking it for a while sometime in the last 10 years what with the conditioning of the players and the cautious chess like tactics employed now theres no room for mavericks anymore, no true stars
The best players have to be pace freaks and just relentless machines grinding away, wheres the artistry gone, it's not the beautiful game anymore for me
I think Football peaked around 15 years ago
Tournament football is not the same as regular league football
If you think it peaked 15 eyars ago you don't watch enough
No i have only watched Premier League every sat and Sun along with Serie A, La Liga and the Championship, and Champions League, Europa League and Ligue 1 for about 25 years so i could probably do with watching a bit more as i'm clearly missing something
I only watch now out of habit and because i love gambling on Sport
How often do we see true spontaneity, mazy dribbles or long range efforts, the general standard of play is much better now but it's come at the price of outstanding individual brilliance
And the best players today aren't in the same league as the 90's stars
How often do we see true spontaneity, mazy dribbles or long range efforts
the general standard of play is much better now but it's come at the price of outstanding individual brilliance
And the best players today aren't in the same league as the 90's stars
Bar Messi whom at most i will say is neck and neck with Diego
Kane is not as good as Shearer
Mbappe is not as good as Henry
Neymar is not as Good as Ronaldinho
Depay-Bergkamp
The German guy-Anyone
Moratta-Raul
Petkovic/Suker
Martinez/Batistuta
Who else you got
Everything you wrote is your opinion and based on nothing but I will indulge.
Kane will beat Shearer's premier league record as long as he doesn't have some horrible injury and will beat Rooneys England record which is also more than Shearer. So yes he is better.
Mbappe is 23 and Henry is retired. Mbappe hasn't played in the Premier League so league goals mean nothing. Henry has 51 goals in 123 games with 1 world cup win. Mbappe will beat his record with games to spare and also has 1 world cup win and has at least 3 left in him so yes he is better.
Same can be said for Neymar
Bergkamp i'll give you. Man was a genius
Martinez/Batistuta. Odd one. Why not Messi? Me thinks because you know he is better and so negates your arguement.
And I can't be bothered carrying on as it's pointless. All you did was randomly pick names and put them up against more randomly picked names. You could change it to anyone still doesn't prove anything.
The game today is faster, technically more impressive and overall the players are just better. They are. They run nearly a half marathon every game. Teams today would annihilate teams of the 90's. In the 90's they used to say they were better in the 60's which was also false. in 30 years they will say the players of today are better than then and so on.
Your entire arguement is opinion based. Fine, you are free to have it but don't make factual statements based off your opinion.
Who else you got
'The game today is faster, technically more impressive and overall the players are just better. They are. They run nearly a half marathon every game. Teams today would annihilate teams of the 90's'
That is also just an opinion but i am not judging as i am not here stating what i have of absolute fact as you are accusing me of, i am only just giving an opinion which was the point of the thread.
I have acknowledged that the game is faster and all round more technical today i am not arguing that, my point is that i think we have less 'magical moments' from players as we did back then because the game is so chess like and overly coached today
Players were given basic instructions before and it was up to them to conjure something up so thats why the best players changed the games and decided Cup Finals
Now days the super stars flatter to deceive in the clutch moments
The Batistuta reference was because Lautoro is the No9 and class Messi a 10 hence the Diego comparison
That is also just an opinion
my point is that i think we have less 'magical moments
Players were given basic instructions before and it was up to them to conjure something up
Now days the super stars flatter to deceive in the clutch moments
No it isn't you can statistically track speed of players, how far they have run, how many runs, the distance they run and so on. YOu think thsoe black bras under there shirts are for support? hmmm
Well having data for km run may well be fact but whether or not it makes them better players is just your opinion
Magical Moments ok let me give you a few off the top of my head because i can see you're struggling to comprehend exactly what i mean when i say this
Ryan Giggs Goal vs Arsenal
Zidane vs Leverkusen
Bergkamp vs Newcastle, Bergkamp vs Argentina
Gazza vs Scotland
Maradona vs England
Cantona vs Sunderland
To stick on Cantona for a moment, he's someone who arguably would not survive in todays game and others also
But my point at the start ws never about whats better, it was about fantasy moments by players and it can't happen today
A lot will argue it is way better this way but in my personal humble opinion i prefered the more primitive yesteryear boys where genuis moments were more common
it was about fantasy moments by players and it can't happen today
To stick on Cantona for a moment, he's someone who arguably would not survive in todays game and others also
A lot will argue it is way better this way but in my personal humble opinion i prefered the more primitive yesteryear boys where genuis moments were more common
They wouldn't survive today because the universal soldiers of today all compressed together would run them out out of the game and not allow them to play
The game is chess played by Super athletes but the Skill creative genuis is not the same as it was
You like sidewards passing to feet, no tackles and no imagination from the players who have zero personality and i don't
Good for you must be great to be right all the time
They wouldn't survive today because the universal soldiers of today all compressed together would run them out out of the game and not allow them to play
The game is chess played by Super athletes but the Skill creative genuis is not the same as it was
You like sidewards passing to feet, no tackles and no imagination from the players who have zero personality and i don't
Good for you must be great to be right all the time
They wouldn't survive today because the universal soldiers of today all compressed together would run them out out of the game and not allow them to play
So then they are not better then. Disproves your entire argument does it not
No it doesn't disprove it it's just highlighting my point even more, even today if the team gang up on Messi you see he finds it very hard to do much- (Today not counting i mean generally)
Most of his success was at Barca when they had 80 percent possesion and he had the best team around him, but as a mortal for Argentina he has never been the same player consistantly because of the very reasons i mention- And he's the GOAT apparently so what chance would the 90's maverick have?
Are you seriously telling me that Totti, Del Piero, Baggio, Zidane, Bergkamp, Ronaldinho are not as good as Neymar, Pogba,Mbappe, Hazard, Salah and Bernardo Silva?
No it doesn't disprove it it's just highlighting my point even more
They were better and my point stands that nauturally talented players are now overpowered by overly fit well structured teams
James Milner and Jordan Henderson are prime example of a very effective modern player who have more value than an Ozil or Hazard who are seen as lazy
But for purists they want to see a game where those latter players are allowed to shine rather than be killed of in the modern unatural factory processed enviroment
Just because something is more efficient doenn't mean its better on the eye for the one watching it
You explicitly said they were better and then say in the same breath they wouldn't survive today. So they are not better then based on your own predefined definition. If they were then they would be able to play in the modern game which you admit they can't. So yes it negates your entire agurment.
Thank you for playing
I'm just gonna keep copying and pasting this reply to make things easier.
Once again you have completely missed the point
the game has changed and it now more physically based rather than skill based, also modern coaching and team play has lessened the importance of the individual
The talented players of before had free licence and luxuries they wouldnt have today
you prefer the modern game and i prefer it when it was more off the cuff
my view is that the superstars before were better to watch and you dissagree which is fine no need to be uptight
the game has changed and it now more physically based rather than skill based
you prefer the modern game and i prefer it when it was more off the cuff
Bro, are you aware that sarcasm doesn't always translate very well online?
shareI get what you mean.
Most goals seem to be cut backs across the box, counter attacks or teams trying to pass the ball into the net.
yes this is my point, its low risk repetitive structured play
When everyone started to use 433 with the Defensive sitting mid it has basically taken the openness out of the game and there much less space now
Before you had a magic man roaming around making things happen but they are almost extinct now
It's getting more and more like NFL every year little by little
yes this is my point, its low risk repetitive structured play
When everyone started to use 433 with the Defensive sitting mid
Before you had a magic man roaming around making things happen but they are almost extinct now
It's getting more and more like NFL every year little by little
You are either completely missing the point or are deliberately being argumentative
I know 433 is not a new thing but if you haven't recognized that post 2003 Mourinho's Chelsea all the crap teams adopted it as a way to spoil games
Then Fergie was forced into it as late as 07 to compete with Barca and since then basically everyone uses it now, so the 10 Doesn' exist in the same way anymore, that's fact.
And have you been in a coma for 10 years and not noticed most Prem teams are now owned by yanks and they have influenced many of the changes we have seen live VAR and the diabolical refereeing laws we have in place now
You are either completely missing the point or are deliberately being argumentative
I know 433 is not a new thing but if you haven't recognized that post 2003 Mourinho's Chelsea all the crap teams adopted it as a way to spoil games
When everyone started to use 433 with the Defensive sitting mid it has basically taken the openness out of the game and there much less space now
Then Fergie was forced into it as late as 07 to compete with Barca and since then basically everyone uses it now, so the 10 Doesn' exist in the same way anymore, that's fact.
And have you been in a coma for 10 years and not noticed most Prem teams are now owned by yanks and they have influenced many of the changes we have seen live VAR and the diabolical refereeing laws we have in place now
Your not really embarassing me tbh you are just coming off as a bit of a Cock
And you are actually showing yourself up a little because you are clearly not reading what i wrote, or twisting things to 'Win an argument' what geek
you wrote this
What absolute and complete nonsense. Where do you get your info from. There is a great interview with Gary Neville in his time at Man Utd. You know under Fergie. They played 442 for a long time, a very long time and then changed to 4231 which utilises a number 10 when they bought Nistleroy to accomodate him.
In response to this
Then Fergie was forced into it as late as 07 to compete with Barca and since then basically everyone uses it now, so the 10 Doesn' exist in the same way anymore, that's fact.
Do you need me to point it out for you?
'Fergie was forced into it in 07'
has penny dropped yet?
Van Nistlerooy was 02/05 both of which are years before what year?
You know when you try to embarrass someone it needs to be in relation to things they have said not what your mind has percieved
So you ignore everything Gary Neville says. The player under fergie but you an American has all the knowledge. Oh ok then.
Your not really embarassing me tbh you are just coming off as a bit of a Cock
And you are actually showing yourself up a little because you are clearly not reading what i wrote, or twisting things to 'Win an argument' what geek
Been thinking it for a while sometime in the last 10 years what with the conditioning of the players and the cautious chess like tactics employed now theres no room for mavericks anymore, no true stars
The best players have to be pace freaks and just relentless machines grinding away, wheres the artistry gone, it's not the beautiful game anymore for me
I think Football peaked around 15 years ago
Then Fergie was forced into it as late as 07 to compete with Barca and since then basically everyone uses it now, so the 10 Doesn' exist in the same way anymore, that's fact.
Its so funny you keep quoting Gary Neville because he is the the one who has spoken about this dozens of times, the irony. Look it up
Man Utd played 442/4231/4411 throughout most of Fergy era but they were being overpowered in Europe and By Chelsea who had a team of beasts playing 433
So Man Utd Switched to 433 with Carrick Sholes and Fletcher or someone else and it worked
Moral of the story is no matter how good you are a great 442 up against a great 433 loses the midfield and is at a disadvantage so it became adapt or die and now were are in the era of nearly everyone playing it and the games being congested and making it much harder for Pirlo esc floated through balls or being able to dribble past more than one player
I don't give a fuck how much they run nowadays or weather they wear bras or not this isn't a discussion about athletic ability it's about the overall watchability of the Sport and its far more predictable now with similar patterns of play
The players are more like robots now managers even bench players for going off script and trying something rogue
If you like this product then thats up to you but don't try to ridicule me because i preferred it when it was more natural
The Fifa generation have well and truly taken over they have no clue about anything
And i'm not American you pleb but if i was how arrogant to think that gives you automatic higher authority on a subject, as if i need to be Italian to know if a pizza taste like shit or not
Peak was 1998. 2002 was the beginning of the end.
shareAre you talking World Cup or Football in general?
I agree WC 98 was the peak WC football in general though the 05 Liv Milan Final that era was great and you still had teams like Villareal threatening to win it
I think the Messi/Pep Guardiola era whilst they were awesome did some damage because everyone has aped their style since so now we have ariived at today where everyone is doing a version of it
I was talking WC. Football in general lasted a bit longer. I think I already started to lose interest around 2005, but I admit I'm way more critical than others (I generally feel the same way about other sports).
There are hardly any dark horse teams anymore or a variety in playing styles. The last has been a big problem in the WC as well.
What in particular do you think caused the change?
There is a similar debate going on in Golf right now, the new gen are just bulked up and smashing it off the tee and raping the course but the purists hate it because the artistry and shot making has hugely diminished.
Also Darts in the UK, The professionalism and standard has shot up but it's very sterile now and charmless
I admit that back then I wasn't exactly aware of all the behind-the-scenes stuff, but my guess is foreign investors who are less interested in the beauty of the game and more in winning prizes and individual power players they can make money off.
Well funny that 98 was the date you threw out before because Eric Cantona retired in the summer of 98 at the age of 30 stating he didn't like the direction football was heading towards
Man was a prophet
Yeah, I agree, kung fu kicking fans is not the way we want to go.
shareHe had it coming
shareI don't think a supporter deserves to be physically assaulted right next to the pitch by a player who makes millions, and was just sent off for a violent kick, just because he called him a French motherfucker. But that's just me.🤷♀️
shareIf a stranger walked up to me in the street and called me a French motherfucker then i am not going to smile and walk away, i don't see why they should be unnacountable because they earn a lot less money than the person they insult, but that's just me.
And he might have been sent off for a violent kick but what about the five equivalents he received in the build up, if they can't take it don't dish it out
If YOU kung fu kick that stranger, you're going to jail. Period.
The supporters pay his salary, if he misbehaves they can criticize him. If he has a problem with the guy calling him a motherfucker, then he can use his mouth in response not his foot.
No offence but that's the philosophy of a pussy
The supporters don't pay his salary the club does, no one forces them to show up they pay to support their team but they don't have ownership over players just for handing over £20 to take a seat
If you are brave enough to verbally abuse someone then you can't cry when they give you some back, he was the instigator lets not forget
And yes if you assault someone you should also expect some punishment of your own but sometimes it's justified and worth a slap on the wrist to wipe the smirk off there faces
Lol, the players are there to entertain the public. If they don't come, the players won't get paid.
Cantona is a pussy for not being able to take what a lot of other players have to deal with as well.
Verbal abuse does not excuse physical abuse in any way. That's the philosophy of a jerk off. It's not okay and that's why Cantona was punished. And the guy hasn't even learned a thing since, he only regrets not kicking him harder. Can I kick that smirk of Cantona's face, please???
It's why Cantona is a legend my friend, i don't know who you have been speaking with but the vast majority praised him
No they aren't there to entertain the public, they are there to compete and would no doubt still be footballers if there was no money
Yes it's been packaged into an entertainment product which you said your self was the begining of the end of football as we knew it but that doesn't mean the players hand over their instinct, pride and values because they may upset the customers lol
They are not actors or performers they are competitors doing a job and if someone turns up at your job to tell you they think you are a cunt they are within their rights to give you a slap
If you walk in to your wife with another man and he is laughing at you is your response to sit down and have a good talk?
No Cantona had no remorse and fair play to him, he stood up for himself and makes no apologies about that, the one who hopefully learned his lesson was the fan, bet he thought twice the next time
Yeah, I bet those who praise him are ManU fans. Even his own team mates thought he should've received a more severe punishment from the club.
Sport is entertainment, it has no other function. They would be amateurs like any of us without the public.
I'm a woman, but even so, cheating is not the same as some little game. Cantona could've controlled himself like every other player, maybe call him a few names in return.
I think it's in pretty good shape..I've really enjoyed this world cup after avoiding the last 3. Hopefully Messi wins it all. I love the fans going crazy in the stands, the next WC is going to have more teams, more games, more fans.
share