What's really disappointing, I guess, is that hardly anyone seems to even note this. I know I'm not the only liberal out there, but this movie is all about how you should stay in your lane, be provincial, lead a boring, staid life, only date people your own age, stay in school, do what your parents say...yet hardly anyone seems to note "wow, that's a pretty Puritan message there".
shareMost of the "conservative messages" in the movie are a direct result of the time period it takes place in. Most all of those "conservative ideals" end up being bashed by the movie and you end up with something that is very much full of crap that should empower women.
I feel that because you feel such a strong desire to label yourself a liberal that you've decided 'liberal' should just mean 'good' and 'conservative' should just mean 'bad.' It's actually fairly typical behavior of such diehards (from either side).
But the simple facts are this:
The goals and ambitions that she had for herself became insignificant when she met a man. Her fellow female teacher-types tried to steer her in a direction away from said man while her family unit and peers pushed her further towards this man.
Any decent feminist or feminist sympathizer should recognize this movie very clearly for the pro-feminist messages.
If you can not then I don't think you should be allowed to call yourself a liberal. Shame on you.
The problem with the ending was that it was such a departure from the rest of the film. Immediately after the fling ends and she tries to get her education back on track it felt like the original director was fired and replaced with the same guy who does Miss Marple or Poirot. Dancy little music, kind of lame montage, and a very nostalgic sentiment that seems reminicent of pre war Britain or something.
To top it off we get this narration of how things worked out just fine for her blah blah. The annoying bouncy music just ruined that whole finish to an otherwise fascinating film.
To me the problem wasn't the message the ending was sending, it was that the way it was put together misleads us into thinking this. Maybe the producers decided to tell the Director to do this, I don't know, but the ending really wasn't about promoting a conservative ideal. It should have been about her finding herself afterall but ultimately I think it just felt like they forgot they had to end the movie and rushed to do it.
I don't think we should look at this ending as if its a message being sent, but instead of the director screwing it up and copping out with a happy go lucky happy ending that makes all of us feel better after watching all that sordid nosense of an older man trying to deflower a young girl.
Exactly, I think so much of this movie was about the frustration of ambitious women of this time, their struggle against conservative values.
When she goes on her rant in front of her school's head mistress she asks what she can do with her education except get a job as a teacher teaching other girls who'll never use their knowledge in any other way in this endless cycle, and all the head mistress can respond is that she could perhaps go into public service.
It just shows how tempting it must have been to be a kept woman with an excentric husband. And still we al know that it was education that finally gave women the freedom of supporting themselves and having their own exciting lives.
People can take it as they wish... to me the message was not that much conservative! Education is not something conservative... it is the key to free your mind!
in fact, in the US, conservatives say that universities are liberal brainwashing facilities, and they tend to associate everything related to non-home-school education as being liberal
Who cares about stairs? The main thing is ice cream.
This movie is based on a memoir. Why does it have to pander to anyone other than to the author?
share1. I realize I'm simplifying here but as I read into it; your interpretation seems to be that the conservative message was to not be dependent on the much older man and get an education while the liberal would have to be to run off and marry a fun guy and not worry about the future. You seem to be confusing liberal with permissive.
2. Many commentators have talked about how the conservatism of the film visa-vi the main characters choice of sexual partners was a reflection of the period. Since, the 1950's in the U.S though it has become less not more permissible for young women especially teenagers to marry much older men in large part due to feminist concerns about how an unequal marriage could affect the growth and maturity of women.
I am not promoting the idea of getting married young but of straying from one's expected, dutiful, good-girl lane. Nice job twisting my argument though!
It really cannot be denied in any event that the memoirist this was based on was conservative in her outlook.
You too seem to be conflating liberalism--with feminism. A perusal of Ayn Rand's (or Susan B. Anthony's) writing should disabuse you of that notion.
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1. But marriage versus a more individualist focus and path was the choice she faced.
2. I don't think all feminists are liberals however I do think most feminist and a good number of traditional conservatives would be surprised by the idea that marrying young and not attending college at least immediately could be construed as being a more liberal path than the alternative.
I thinkk you are putting too much focus on the idea.of marriage, when I took that as being an excuse to get out from under her parents' thumbs. If she could have just gone and "shacked up" with the guy without her parents freaking out, I'm sure she (or at least my putative "liberal" girl) would have done so. The marriagei was a partial concession to her conservative milieu, before she went for the full conservative surrender.
And I can't possibly see how you can say "marriage vs. a more individualist path was the choice she faced". Individualist? Her parents (really, her father mostly) were dictating how and when she studied, telling her what path to take and what courses of study were a deviation from the path they had set for her, etc. i mean, really...come on.
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Individualist in the sense that it was a path of career betterment as opposed to choosing to be dependent on another person. Of course, though the situation was more complicated because on either side she would be dependent on men in her life at least partially.
However, you interpret the raw facts of the movie though the point is I don't think the film had either a simple left or right wing message but people are of course free to look at it how they may.
I see "conservative" as a bit different in this context from "right wing". As in: conform, obey your parents, stay in your lane, don't take chances or rebel against your upbringing.
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1. I guess you could have revised the previous statement to say any political statement.
2. You're right on the face of it, the film is a story about someone who tried something different that didn't work out. Her parents actually liked David though FWIW.
3. Where the story becomes more complicated though is that in some ways the life she would have with David is more conservative and traditional than the one she would have if she goes to university. Think of for example as other posters have noted about the competing models of women-hood through out the film.
4.David actually proposed to her without any prodding and quite frankly these weren't characters who were going to go off and have a full conservative surrender(whatever that means).
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I think it is and that is all the more clear when you read the memoir the film is based on.
What do you see as the message of the film?
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Wow, you really need to watch this movie again. That is not the message at all. You either didn't pay attention, or somehow saw their relationship as much better than it really was. He was married and lying to her, and he only wanted to party with her. And what's wrong with sending the message that teenagers should date their own age, instead of dating sleazy middle aged married men?
Would you rather she dopped out of school, and continued as his mistress or ended up his wife (and probably end up cheated on)? Instead of continuing an academic education, have a successful career, and date other people? I don't think you don't sound as liberal as you think you are.
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First, I'm really not interested in watching this movie again. Thanks anyway. Second, I'm not saying he turned out to be such a great guy in the end; I'm saying that the way he turned out to be put forth a disappointing message in general terms. Third, you've got one more "don't" there than you really want.
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To the OP- why are you looking for a message where none exists? This is from the actual account by Lynn Barber. So if there is a message it comes from her feelings based on the two-timing, lying and cheating "David". What other message can one derive from such an account other than falling for a much much older man (who is vague and lying) leads to sadness and a huge letdown and depression?
This was based in the 60's and in England so naturally the message is going to be more traditional. But what's the big problem with that? We have a man who is lying, and committing adultery with a girl young enough to be his daughter. He even says he wants to marry her though apparently he has used this con game repeatedly (based on what his wife says to her upon meeting her) many times before.
The poor young girl is devastated, let-down, crushed and depressed (b/c she has left Oxford too). She learned her lesson and went back to school, a much smarter girl. If you see that as a "conservative" or "Puritan" message then that's b/c you are seeing what you want to see. The average viewer sees this as a girl learning the hard way not to trust every man w/o asking more questions.
Thankfully she was able to correct her mistakes and go back to school. That isn't Puritan, it's called learning in the ways of life...or hard knocks...
to the original OP
it's not really a liberal vs. conservative issue.
You're in fact just describing being a rebel.
You will grow out of it, when you get older.
I was born in the 1960s. How old do I need to get? LOL
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I was born in the 1960s. How old do I need to get? LOL
People can be liberal politically, or at least align themselves with the more liberal political party, while still possessing many conservative viewpoints. My mother, for instance, is outwardly the model of a secular liberal or progressive. But she subscribes to the Protestant work ethic, even if she would not call it that; she disdains a "counterculture" appearance, especially among her children; and she sees it as inherently wrong for someone to sleep during the day and be awake at night, no matter how productive they may be in the latter period. (As you may suspect, we have clashed often on these and other issues.)
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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc