It:s released by Sony.
Oh me
Add to that...one expensive animated bomb after another since Onward in 2020 Disney looks like the gang that couldn't shoot straight.
They've yet to lose money on a film, but keep on living in your dream world.
shareWhat a weird life you must lead, being a Disney apologist. They’ve clearly lost big money, before and since you wrote this.
In 2023 they had multiple, extremely humongous bombs! You do know the stated “budget” usually doesn’t include press and reshoots and “funny money stuff,” so it’s a good rule of thumb to double the budget of a big movie from a big studio.
What do you get out of it? A mega corporation that has been a net negative for the planet, but they slap rainbows on their merch and that’s good enough for you? I’m not putting words in your mouth, I’m genuinely just asking. I don’t get it. It’s like when super conservatives defend the defense industry.
It's been over two years since I posted that, and at the time it was true. The MCU films had all made money. I primarily posted because QueenFan is such a goofball that it seemed worthwhile to point out that he was again talking out of his ass. As for Disney-- I don't care one way or another about their well-being. If anything, I like them less than most other mega-corporations. Most corporations are pretty bad, but they seem a lot worse, and it's been rather nice seeing them falter of late. I suspect they'll soon be acquired, likely by Apple, another failing company, but one that has bucketfuls of money that they'll probably start using to try and buy their way out of failure.
When it comes to budgets, I think you have it backwards. They are typically vastly overstated, partly to build interest in films and mostly to avoid taxes. When we're told a film cost $200 million to make, it quite possibly cost closer to $100 million.
To expand on my previous reply, while we never learn exact figures, based on standard estimates:
Shang Chi has made between $35-95 million more than it cost to make/promote
Black Widow has made between $98-108 million more than it cost to make/promote
Eternals has made about $9 million more than it cost to make/promote
Spider-Man: No Way Home is well on its to making a profit that may come close to a billion dollars.
Cite your sources
shareThe internet?
shareOf course it's the internet, but can you be more specific with these breakdowns and where exactly you sourced them? Usually the marketing budget is hardest to find.
Ex: Eternals is just below 400mil worldwide with a 200mil production budget. Taking the split with exhibitors into consideration, tell me what the marketing cost was that led to about a 9mil profit at this point.
Filmbiff is an obvious clown. He can't cite one source that says Externals has made a dime in profit. It's drowning in red ink.
shareAnd you cant disprove that it didnt , 400 millio ww , thats decent dollar
shareAfter exhibitor's cut Disney is left with less than 200 million which was the production budget alone. That still doesn't count marketing expenses and participation cuts.
Only a dunce would argue a 200 million production budgeted film is profitable after grossing only 400 million worldwide.. I can't believe I am even responding to this kind of ignorance.
All the sources I've read, who also guess using "standard estimates", say that Eternals needs another 200mil-ish to have a break even theatrical run. I'm guessing that FilmBuff is using a standard for marketing costs that isn't a standard for these Marvel tent pole releases. Either that or he's using a split that's extremely dated.
shareUse the accepted math:
Cost to make film = between 150 and 200 million
Cost to promote film = between 25 and 40 million
To break even, it needs to earn between 175 and 240 million, on average about 208 million. Let's tack on 20 million more, just because. So it needs 228 million to break even.
Domestic box office brought in 162 million, of which Marvel keeps approximately 120 million
International box office brought in 234 million, of which Marvel keeps approximately 117 million
Marvel has made made about 237 million from the film so far, only from ticket sales. Factor in streaming revenue, toys, bluray sales, and more, and it will earn well beyond that, but already it's 9 million over what it needs to break even.
If you go with the high estimate of 240 million, then it's 3 million away from break even.
Oh me.
lolololololololololol
Don't let a little thing like the exhibitor's cut get in the way of that "accepted math"!
lolololololololololol
"cost to promote film 25-40 million"
Again filmbiff...
lolololololololololol
That's the accepted figure. Studios never reveal what they spend, but the common assumption is that it's between 10 and 40 million. Eternals was barely promoted, so it's likely on the low end of that, but I erred on the high side just to be safe.
shareQueen makes up his own rules when it comes to box office numbers , very anti disney and pro wb universal , noticed how queen never posted anything about ww84 and the suicide squads abysmal bo?
share"Cost to promote film = between 25 and 40 million"
That's what I thought you were thinking. No. Way. In. Hell.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/200-million-rising-hollywood-struggles-721818/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/iron-man-3-hangover-3-562666/
And that was 7 years ago.
And the Marvel "standard"....
https://3wavesagency.com/blog/avengers-endgame-marketing-campaign-marvels-most-expensive-ever#:~:text=Marvel%20Studios%20has%20spent%20an,usually%20spend%20on%20their%20movies.
https://observer.com/2021/09/marvel-black-widow-hit-flop-disney-plus-box-office/#:~:text=According%20to%20Variety%2C%20Black%20Widow,%24150%20million%20in%20P%26A%20costs.
"According to Variety, Black Widow carried a production budget of $200 million; marketing costs for such tentpoles typically range in the nine-figure area. Throw in multiple release date delays and false start promotion over the last 18 months and we can estimate roughly $150 million in P&A costs."
Shazam (2019) 105mil marketing costs (more than its production budget)
Infinity War (2018) - 150 marketing costs
Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017) - 140 marketing costs
Iron Man 2 (2010) - 125-150 marketing costs
Iron Man (2008) - the very first film, a trial balloon to see if it all could work, when RDJ was a faded almost-star, 13 years ago, still spent above your range, 50-75mil on marketing.
But Eternals (2021) strangely drops to 25-40? During a longer promo window due to Covid? Without a fraction of the star power already pushing it? You don't sink 200mil into a production without coupling it with a big marketing campaign.
Your "accepted math" needs an update. The ave range for marketing for tentpoles is much higher. You're about 80-100mil off what's considered typical.
If you believe studios are spending $100 million or more to market a film one can only assume you own about half a dozen Brooklyn Bridges by now.
shareBut you know it's "25-40mil", right? And you know what must be too much, right? I provide links. You provide "accepted math" that only you accept, with nothing but personal accounting to back it up. You provide profit margin details for all these films, while also saying we don't really know the numbers.
Yet we're still waiting for something more specific than "The internet?" as a source. But in the meantime we should accept your "accepted figure" that neither you, me, nor anyone else can find except from a Quora question from 2003 or something? Nah, FilmBluff, I'm good.
Edit: The Black Widow spot during the SuperBowl cost 5.6 mil alone. Easy to find, no dispute anywhere. And you think they only spent 20-35mil more on the entire campaign, during all that time, across all platforms, across all those markets? Yeah, you're really dialed into this stuff.
Again, I'm relying on numbers that are considered the norm, not outlier "we spent hundreds of millions!" reports that likely exist to justify tax writeoffs.
But to put it in perspective, this is a pandemic year, and Marvel released four films, and they rank 1, 2, 4, and 6 out of all films released in 2021. That is a success.
I said nothing about success or failure. I'm not putting down Marvel, and I don't care about these battles you and others are having here. I just asked a simple question about how you arrived at these numbers, and again, you still won't provide the source from which this "norm" comes from. How did you get around all this supposed BS to access this much more accurate "norm"? You said the internet. Where exactly is this uniquely reliable source? Can you answer? Or will you keep deflecting and pretending like the internet whispered this common and accepted math only to you? It can't be the common and accepted norm, but strangely absent from every source that provides such numbers, at the same time. It seems this "considered the norm" is only held by you and a source you still can't provide. Doesn't seem too common and accepted to me. More like an outlier born of a general and dated blurb, applied in an out of context way, to paint a prettier picture now, by a rabid fan, triggered by the OP.
shareDo they keep 75% of domestic ticket receipts?
shareWeren’t you the one who tried to claim Endgame was a failure?
shareDont be a fool queen, i expected a negative thread incoming, after all you did say ww84 would be the biggest movie of 2021 didnt you? Released by Sony made by Marvel, Disney will get its far share of dollar from this movie, id worry about WB, flop after flop.
shareOnward released in March 2020 right on the brink of a lot of countries going into lockdown due to the pandemic so it's hardly fair to use that as an example of a box office bomb. Don't even know why you said "over two years" because there were no Marvel movies released last year due to the pandemic.
I don't think Disney have anything to worry about. In 2019 seven of the top 10 highest grossing films of the year worldwide were from Disney with Disney also taking the top 3 spots with Avengers: Endgame, The Lion King and Frozen 2.
So yeah by comparison 2021 isn't looking too great for them but Shang-Chi and Eternals are still on the top ten highest grossing films of the year worldwide (albeit at the bottom of the list) and because of the new deal with Sony on the Spider-Man films Disney is taking 25% of the film's profits whilst also retaining the merchandise rights to the character (and we know how popular that character is)
On top of that Disney + now have over 118 million global paid subscribers just two years after launch. So okay they're far from the box office domination they had in 2019 but maybe they'll bounce back next year, nearly every film has taken a hit at the box office due to COVID-19.
It'll be interesting to see if audiences turn out for Doctor Strange, Thor and Black Panther next year but I'm predicting they will and they'll end up being 3 of the highest grossing films of the year.
Great post.
Yes, all studios have taken a hit but here's to a better 2022!