MovieChat Forums > Up (2009) Discussion > My thoughts on Carl, and the generalized...

My thoughts on Carl, and the generalized, artificial movie


There are a few points that I would like to make or simply point towards.

It is shown that Carl was very much in love with his wife, but it is contradictory that he is so unhappy (with strong anger and bitterness) after she is gone. One does not truly lose something they love, as long as one has faith and keeps it alive in one's heart.

His character towards the corporate people is unjust, as they were only doing business and they offered him double the price for his house, and they did not use any unjust tactics to get him out of there. At least not that any are shown. He is is not happy to meet or see people, except his childhood hero. His attitude towards younger children is pretty clear and if I were permitted to speculate, it would not be too arrogant to say that it was because he could not have children himself that he behaves this way, since one cannot simply be bitter and angry towards others because one's beloved has passed away.

A loving person does not behave this way. It is selfish only to love one thing or person, and be bitter to others if is gone. Carl cannot be held in the sight of children as a noble man.

Ty.

[And Edit after nearly 2 years]

Thank you for your replies and opinions. Unfortunately I am was not a recurring visitor of the site as a forum member and have only just recently seen your replies. Looking back at what I wrote I would like to reiterate and clarify my standpoint and own opinion which I presented to you. Hopefully this will be enough to let everyone know my mind.

Carl, first of all, who has loved a person sincerely his entire life is shown to have no loving friends or family (and to argue that they have died at this point is a bad argument imo, for friends and family can be of all ages, and if one is loving towards them and caring, they will look after you or remember you in your later years). But I let this go because it is possible that he, in his depression locked himself up and isolated himself ( but even then such a person will be found by his caring others), but altogether his entire personality towards society (as he often laughs at other's pain in the movie), shows to me that he became rather a sadist.

It was just very surprising for me to see this Carl who is still a child nearing the end of his life, who cannot handle seeing love go, not so much as to see it go, and go into a depression or feel pain, but to become such a negative person which becomes a harm to entire society. I totally understand that he is going UP in his life, but this DOWN was quite artificial and shallow.

In summary point is this: It is COMPLETELY justified, and quite HUMAN to fall into depression on the loss of a beloved, but, did you see how Carl behaved with children, with Russell? I'm not saying he not be slightly bitter, sad or depressed. I say he not sadistically laugh at the misery of others or diss children.

On another category,

I would like to quote a philosopher who says something about the selfishness of a couple loving each other (and please do not view me as a Carl or sadist, a person who is whining because he has lost love, for I am an optimist and a great fan of love)

"The intoxication of self-feeling is the most intense, and the height of this intoxication is most admired. Love and friendship are the very height of self-feeling, the I intoxicated in the other-I. The more securely the two I's come together to become one I, the more this united I selfishly cuts itself off from all others."
- Soren Kierkegaard

and another:

"Love of one is a piece of barbarism: for it is practiced at the expense of all others."
- Friedrich Nietzsche


I thank you again for your opinions.

N.B.: Along with all of this, another fundamental problem I have with the movie is the commercial element and the generalization:

I understand this is a Disney movie for children, but the way they make Carl into a bad person after his wife passes away creates an awful black and white contrast and gives a very artificial look to it, as if it were deliberately done by writers to win audiences and their sympathies, which I believe demeans actual depression and behavior which might occur after a loved passes away, and one's whole subjective experience.

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[deleted]

I guess you don't like Gran Torino either

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momin-malik, I will hazard a guess that you have not lost a loved one to death. I have. Not just grandparents, dad-in-law, mom, dad and various aunts and uncles. I miss them but they had long lives and experienced life. But I have lost a child and that has changed me so very much. I am a Grieving Mother. It is a 'club' I hate! My son is forever 9 years old. I am sad. I am MAD! I am NOT the same person that I was before Sept. 2011. My other kids have had to learn to deal with a mom that is not like their 'old mom'. My hubby and I have had to learn to deal with our 'new' selves and grieve together and separately.

I cry more. I have even screamed in anger asking why my son had to die! WHY? Did I do something wrong? Am I a 'bad' mom? WHY?!?!?

I do sometimes smile or laugh, but right away I feel like I'm being bad that I am laughing or smiling because my son is not here to do the same. I cling to pictures of him. I am hoping to find someone that can get my recordings and pictures off of an old cell phone that quit working because I am desperate to hear his laugh! I always blow kisses to his bedroom whenever I go by it. I sleep with a pillow he made for 4-H and I also sleep with two of his teddy bears. I wear a pin with his picture on it everyday. I talk to him every day. I also try to do things like make treats and give Valentine's Cards to his classmates. I've tried to be there for his classmates, third graders having to deal with death of a classmate and friend is hard. I talk about him. He is still my son! I MISS MY SON SO VERY MUCH!! I would trade places with him in a heartbeat! I'm 47 and, yes, at times very bitter. Although I try to hide it from my other sons.

I am so VERY ANGRY that my son will never get to graduate from high school! Never have a girlfriend! Never have a wife! Never have children of his own! Never become a farmer like his dad and oldest brother!! Yes, I have faith that someday I will see him again in Heaven, but I am still so very ANGRY that he is gone! I have a mask that I put on when I'm in public, people tell me that I am 'So strong!', guess what....I am most assuredly not strong. I am missing a piece of my heart! I am, pardon my language, PI$$ED that my son died!

I sometimes sit in his bedroom and hug his clothes and toys. I don't want to leave this house because of all the memories of him here. If some corporate developer came and offered me money for it, I would tell them "NO!" I know that someday I will have to leave this house, but I hope and pray that I will be dead and won't care.

So far I have been lucky to have good friends, family and a good support group. Although I have had some say that two years of grieving is plenty and I need to 'get on with life'. My teen even told me that, "He was my brother, too, but you need to stop getting so emotional, mom" I could only tell him that I hope he never has to experience losing a child.

So, in closing, I guess that I am just not a good person, at least according to you momin-malik. Sorry that I am not all sunshine and happiness for you and your version of the world. I wonder what you would be like if you had to live my life for awhile?

Peace and 'nuff said.
Mom to two on Earth and one in Heaven

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Just came across your post and had to say how much it moved me. I want to say how sorry I am, but I think you've heard that too many times.

So I'll say that I'll say a prayer for you that you somehow --- not make peace with your loss, but find a way to still experience the love you have in your life and the happiness that love can bring while knowing that it's not a betrayal of your son.

And that includes the love from and for your lost child.

“The risk of love is loss, and the price of loss is grief -
But the pain of grief
Is only a shadow
When compared with the pain
Of never risking love.”
Hilary Stanton Zunin

Your son was a precious gift to you. I know the gift was taken away far too soon, but I hope that one day the memories of that precious gift will be able to bring you happiness along with the pain.

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I'm so sorry to hear about your loss, RODEONan.

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I'm sorry for you loss RODEONan.

Allow me to make a personal explanation to say what I meant.

I have not said that it is unjust or wrong to be unhappy or angry after losing a loved one. That is totally justifiable, and in itself lovable. Infact loving a dead person is the most unselfish love their is, since there can be no repayment made of it. You are a hero in loving this way.

You are loving a dead person precisely in a way Carl didn't. Your love lives on, and yet Carl forgot the love and let only bad feelings surround him and became rather a sadist.

You see you have mentioned good friends, which Carl doesn't have.
You have mentioned loving relatives, which Card doesn't have.
You do not seem to diss children without any precedent.
You do not strike to me to be a person who would sadistically laugh at the misery of others, but be kind and just.
You have only mentioned that you suffer yourself with grievance but do not harm others.

You see Disney has robbed loving people and their experience to create a generalization which works for all and makes us weep. They artificially created a black and white environment to make a contrast. There is a big commercial element to it, which demeans actual suffering of people like you.

Regards!

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I love you. I have no other words that can express. I love you, my human friend.

Men love in haste but detest at leisure. Hatred is by far the longest pleasure.

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I wouldn't even go as far to say that most people are sunshine and lollipops after losing a loved one, let alone all people. Everyone deals with it differently and since Carl didn't have a lot else going for him (he retired from selling balloons!) of course he became bitter and reclusive after losing his only love.

So he was rude to the corporates. That doesn't make someone a bad person. Yes, it was absolutely wrong to hit that guy but again, that shouldn't define his character.

Not everyone enjoys being around people. It can be a very unpleasant experience for some. That's their choice.

What the hell, dude. He risked his life to save a bird. A BIRD! Explain how that's not noble. I reiterate, people are better than their worst actions.

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"What the hell, dude. He risked his life to save a bird. A BIRD! Explain how that's not noble."

Well, the bird is shown to both be sentient and a mother trying to save her children, and yet he has to be dragged into it. His whole "This isn't any of my concern" "I didn't ask for this" utterance was shockingly mean spirited, to me.

Heck, even the dogs were shown to be sentient, but his only concern and interest was to get that house where he wanted it to wind up.

His being depressed was understandable, but his being an *beep* at more than a few times, wasn't (or at least it left him fairly tarnished until his reformation towards the end).

"I reiterate, people are better than their worst actions."

If they repent of those actions......otherwise, no, they are defined by their worst unrepentant actions.

And, it's in part just a kids' movie that can be also be enjoyed by the older-but-young-at-heart.

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Oh my...!
I strongly disagree with you. I see a lot of judgmental thinking in your comment.
I love Carl Frederickson.
"UP" is one of my favorite movies because of Carl.

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What exactly do you know about spending 60+ years of your life with someone and then losing them? You're generalizing the crap out of the grieving process and everybody who goes through it. *beep* off.

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It is shown that Carl was very much in love with his wife, but it is contradictory that he is so unhappy (with strong anger and bitterness) after she is gone. One does not truly lose something they love, as long as one has faith and keeps it alive in one's heart.


If you believe that everyone who loses the love of their life is going to remain happy, and that they're not going to fall into depression or even bitterness, you are naive.

His character towards the corporate people is unjust, as they were only doing business and they offered him double the price for his house, and they did not use any unjust tactics to get him out of there. At least not that any are shown.


We're talking about the house that he lived in with his wife; the house that they built a life in. And you're surprised that he would not want to sell the house to anyone; that he would put up a fight when corporate bullies put pressure on him to sell the house? Really?!

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I'm not saying he not be bitter, sad or depressed. I say he not sadistically laugh at the misery of others or diss children.

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I'm not saying he not be bitter, sad or depressed. I say he not sadistically laugh at the misery of others or diss children.

I see that it wasn't your intention, momin-malik, but perhaps you should have conveyed it better in your post? I'm not attacking you or trying to be condescending, but you didn't conveyed your point clearly.

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A large part of his life's experience- with his sense of comfort- was in his wife. When he lost her, he lost his comfort.



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