Of course Hollywood cares about what women want! To say they don't would be ignoring half of the ticket going audience.
Except most women don't care about action films. They never really did.
Undermining male audiences to placate a shadow audience in potential female audiences never made sense and still doesn't make sense today. Also, ticket sales (even before the pandemic) didn't really pan out even before the pandemic.
Hollywood has reems of data of what women and want in a movie. It is a business so they will cater to what women and men want. In action films the females of the newer generations prefer strong willful women.
Stuff like Annihilation died at the box office, Men In Black International also bombed bad as well, along with Terminator: Dark Fate, and a bunch of other female-led movies or SJW-themed action flicks. In fact, there's a reason why the Get Woke, Go Broke list exist with a bunch of feminist-themed movies failing big time.
These movies don't make money; the whole point is to push a message.
They have lots of data sure, but the actual results are showing that women don't care about spending money on these SJW-laden propaganda pieces.
They responded that it was good but they didn't like Shelly Duval's character much, too wimpy they said. I retorted that she had inner strength, they looked at me weird.
This is what you should be concerned about. Your nieces are already brainwashed in a bad way.
Nearly 40% of all marriages end in divorce these days. A lot of it fueled on by the antipodes gender wars put forward by Lefty media. It's basically everywhere: men are weak, women are strong, etc., etc., etc.
You do make a fine point in romance films however, the knight in shining armor isn't quite dead in that genre yet.
Romance films, romance books, romance mangas... agitprop can't change the biological nature of women.
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Redsfan001 (6151)
4 years ago
If you put a weak willed, crying "save me" female as a main character in a action film, there will be blowback. You have to KNOW that women just don't want to see that these days, and I know PLENTY of women who love action films. Did these movie go broke because of a strong willed female character, or from poor writing? Because of Alien, T2, both of which has strong willed females, I'm going with poor writing.
I have had this argument before on a different thread... people think that there is a "agenda" in Hollywood that is pushing forth strong women. But Hollywood IS a business FIRST, they give the audience what they want.
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cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
KNOW that women just don't want to see that these days, and I know PLENTY of women who love action films. Did these movie go broke because of a strong willed female character, or from poor writing? Because of Alien, T2, both of which has strong willed females, I'm going with poor writing.
There's a difference between strong-willed females and females who act like hyper-masculine lesbians. No one has a problem with REALISTIC women depicted as strong willed characters, obviously. But that is certainly not the case with films like Army of the Dead, Terminator 4, or any other movie on the Get Woke, Go Broke list aimed at the feminist crowd.
I have had this argument before on a different thread... people think that there is a "agenda" in Hollywood that is pushing forth strong women. But Hollywood IS a business FIRST, they give the audience what they want.
Except they're not giving the audience what they want. Giving the audience what they want would be more movies like Rocky IV, which is the highest grossing sports movie of all time. Giving the audience what they want would be more movies like Terminator 2, or John Wick, or the first two Expendables films, all of which did better at the boxoffice than feminist woke trash.
Here's the thing: there is no such thing as profiting from a phantom audience. Women prefer specific types of movies, and orienting your film (that's supposed to be aimed at males) toward the 3rd/4th wave feminist crowd means instant financial disaster.
Compare the top-grossing films in China, India, and Nigeria to the ones in America and you can clearly see that hyper-masculine men with pretty women still sell by far above anything else.
http://www.china.org.cn/arts/2020-01/02/content_75572170.htm
And for India:
https://www.scoopwhoop.com/entertainment/top-10-grossing-hindi-films-in-2019/
None of Hollywood's woke trash make either top list.
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Redsfan001 (6151)
4 years ago
Your are happening to forget the biggest moneymaker in movie history! Avengers Endgame(2019)....it was chock full of very powerful, strong willed female characters.
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cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
No one knew that scene was in there until they watched the film, and it's the most derided scene in the entire movie for obvious reasons. You'll find no shortage of average moviegoers criticizing it as the worst scene in the movie, and duly so.
It's nonsensical and stupid, and rightfully criticized for being jarring and obvious pandering.
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Redsfan001 (6151)
4 years ago
I watched that film in front of a live audience. One if the few times I remember when people actually CHEERED in numerous scenes...the "female power pose" was one of those scenes.
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cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
That doesn't detract from the fact that it's still the most criticized scene in the entire film because of how nonsensical it is.
The people in your audience were obviously Lefty/Liberals. Okay. But the rest of the world isn't that way.
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Mephariel (58)
4 years ago
Criticized by who? A bunch of dudes online. Most audience in America are blue. New York and California alone contributed to 16% of all box office returns.
And you know who cheered for the female avengers unite scene? Indian audience. You can find this on YouTube. I think you need to stop speaking for the rest of the world.
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cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
And you know who cheered for the female avengers unite scene? Indian audience.
Link or it didn't happen.
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Mephariel (58)
4 years ago
Wrong on so many levels. According to a recent survey by Fandango, the top genres for women were action, science fiction, drama and comedy. The least popular genres were romance, family and animated films, and fantasy. In 2018, there was another survey that showed women like action movies over romantic comedies as well. 45% of males and 38% of females said they saw at least one marvel film. So women may not like action films as much as guys, but plenty of women watch action films.
Disney and all the other movie companies cares about money. Do you think they don't? They push multi-culturalism and feminism because action movies are by far the most popular movies in the world and getting everyone to watch is the key to success. The message they are sending is that "Our movies are for you too."
And you need to stop acting like "woke" movies haven't found success. Star Wars, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Crazy Rich Asians, Fast and Furious...the entire series, etc.
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cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
the top genres for women were action, science fiction, drama and comedy. The least popular genres were romance, family and animated films, and fantasy.
And how do you know those were actual women and not trannies taking part in the survey?
Disney and all the other movie companies cares about money. Do you think they don't? They push multi-culturalism and feminism because action movies are by far the most popular movies in the world and getting everyone to watch is the key to success. The message they are sending is that "Our movies are for you too."
WRONG on every level. Multiculturalism is NOT popular in world media, it's why every single hyper-focused "multicultural" film from Disney or any big company tanks in China. Because guess what? China hates blacks, and they don't like hyper-masculine women. It's why movies like Star Wars and every other feminist film tanked in China.
Go to any board on Weibo and let the average Chinese person tell that to you flat out. Same thing goes for India and Nigeria, too (except, obviously Indians prefer Indians in their films and Nigerians prefer Nigerians in their films).
And you need to stop acting like "woke" movies haven't found success. Star Wars, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Crazy Rich Asians, Fast and Furious...the entire series, etc.
Star Wars sequel trilogy wasn't actually profitable, though. They barely broke even and lost money on several entries, including the Rise of Skywalker after marketing + production were added up:
https://deadline.com/2020/04/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-movie-profit-2019-lowest-for-lucasfilm-1202915179/
Also, Captain Marvel was positioned between Infinity War and End Game, so of course a lot of people went to see it. Wonder Woman 1984 also tanked, especially in China, further proving my point:
https://archive.is/wip/80mid
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Mephariel (58)
4 years ago
[deleted]
cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
Because there is no reason to think they are actual trannies? Again you have been proven wrong on every level. Women watches action films, in many ways, just as much as men.
No, other way around. Most female-led action films since 2014 are not very profitable, hence why:
1. Annihilation tanked at the box office
2. Ghostbusters 2016 tanked at the box office
3. Charlies Angels tanked at the box office
4. Men In Black International tanked at the box office
5. Terminator: Dark Fate tanked at the box office.
The list keeps going.
The survey is not representative of the box office.
Multiculturalism: Fast and Furious are among the highest grossing American films in China.
Because of Vin Diesel and lots of big explosions.
XXX did well in China. Again, it features a multi-cultural cast with strong female characters.
Vin Diesel + Donnie Yen + Tony Jaa. No one in China cared about the female cast.
Indian movies are popular in China? So yes, they accept movies from other cultures
Indian movies feature males in hyper-masculine roles with lots of females as damsels in distress. Thus proving my point.
Star Wars tanked because there is zero nostalgia for those stories. The original SW was never released and never caught on.
All of that is a lie:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/original-star-wars-trilogy-screens-in-china-for-121694191287.html
None of the Star Wars movie lost money. That is just a conservative fantasy.
WRONG:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/solo-will-post-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927/
Captain Marvel: Made over 1 billion dollars no matter how you want to twist the narrative.
Infinity War made Captain Marvel money, not Captain Marvel, which is precisely why the sequel has been staved off from production for as long as it has.
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Mephariel (58)
4 years ago
Was Annihilation supposed to be a box office hit? It an extremely cerebral sci-fi film. What evidence do you have that it has anything to do with wokeness? Nothing. Annihilation was never going to set the box-office on fire.
Ghostbusters, Charlies Angels, Men In Black, and Terminator: Dark Fate are all badly received movies. Again, can you proved wokeness has anything to do with that? Nope. Those are just not good films.
The survey shows that people regardless of gender wants to watch action films. Nobody wants to watch BAD action films.
Fast and Furious: So as long as Vin Diesel is there, wokeness is ok? Then I guess China doesn't mind wokeness right? It can't bother them that much if they flock to see it because of one star. Same with XXX. There are many Chinese films with female lead stars. Have you heard of Michelle Yeoh? She was a huge star in the 80s. The Grandmaster, a movie where Zhang Ziyi was kicking other male martial artists' ass became a massive hit in Hong Kong and was successful in China. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon also became a hit in the US. Seems like there a clear market for strong female stars everywhere.
Star Wars: Your article basically proved my point. They tried to screen that to gain fans. The problem is, Chinese audiences grew up watching Marvel films, not Star Wars. Star Wars is just not that special to them. And your link to Solo is hilarious. First of all, I was talking about the sequel trilogy. Second of all, the least woke Star Wars movie was the first one to lose money? You know, the one with a white male about Han Solo?
And yes, CM made over 1 billion. Sorry that bothers you and you tried to twist a narrative with zero evidence or support.
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cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
The survey shows that people regardless of gender wants to watch action films. Nobody wants to watch BAD action films.
Except they do. In the 1980s the bad-action film genre made Hollywood big bucks and launched the careers of Jean-Claude Van Damme, Steven Seagal and Michael Dudikoff to name a few.
Before that era, the bad-action genre gave us top-billed stars such as Charles Bronson, Richard Roundtree, and Chuck Norris.
What the survey shows is that a bunch of trannies pretended to be women to SAY they licked action films but they really don't, as evident with all the flops Hollywood has been producing.
Have you heard of Michelle Yeoh? She was a huge star in the 80s.
She was a decent star in the 80s/90s but mostly gained fame due to teaming up with big stars like Jet Li, Chow Yun Fat and Jackie Chan. Few of her solo flicks were highly successful.
The Grandmaster, a movie where Zhang Ziyi was kicking other male martial artists' ass became a massive hit in Hong Kong and was successful in China.
It starred Tony Leung; Zhang Ziyi was a costar. It sold on the Ip Man fame made mainstream by... dun, dun, dun.... Donnie Yen.
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon also became a hit in the US. Seems like there a clear market for strong female stars everywhere.
Chow Yun Fat still had top billing coming off a string of huge hits in Hong Kong.
The problem is, Chinese audiences grew up watching Marvel films, not Star Wars. Star Wars is just not that special to them.
Nah they saw them growing up as the article points out, either through bootlegs or syndication. The prequels were also showed in China and they loved those. They just hated the feminist woke sequel trilogy.
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kukuxu (5409)
4 years ago
One detail about Chinese movies.
The other commenter is right when he says that female action leads are quite common in Chinese sword & martial arts movies, AKA wuxia movies. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is probably the most known example, but not the only one.
However, there's a trick here: wuxia movies have their own particular set of rules. They're usually cartoonish, and there's a clear separation between heros and normal folk. In wuxia movies, heros acquire some kind of 'mystical' physical superpowers: they can take down dozens of adversaries and jump up to the roof of a building or from tree to tree. In that context, having female action leads doesn't break the immersion as it does when you're trying to be gritty and realistic. It's the same that happens with Buffy beating vampires: it doesn't break immersion because there's some 'mystical' chosen one reason that gives her superpowers (it's widely known that Whedon was heavily influenced by Anime, which in some cases shares elements of wuxia).
That's not a blank check, though. Narrative universe and rules of the movie need to be cohesive. In a movie like Mulan (2020) you can see how modern Hollywood can't even understand what that means: you CAN'T copy the female actions leads from Chinese wuxia without taking at the same time the cartoonish tone and setting. Modern Hollywood loves to cherry-pick what serves their wokeness gospel best, and that's no serious worldbuilding, that's just making excuses to push their message down the throat.
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cyguration (3951)
4 years ago
It's the same that happens with Buffy beating vampires: it doesn't break immersion because there's some 'mystical' chosen one reason that gives her superpowers (it's widely known that Whedon was heavily influenced by Anime, which in some cases shares elements of wuxia).
This is such an excellent point and I'm glad you brought this up.
Yes, it is true that female action heroes have been around for ages, and I suppose it bears some repeating that before the current era of wokeness, most people didn't have a problem with it when we understood the context and situations of those characters.
In Wuxia, yes, they were fantasy martial arts flicks. It wasn't about the gender, it was about the
style (or how many styles you knew). That applied equally to men and women in Wuxia, where it was common for characters to get stronger based on the style they acquired/trained in.
It was also fine in action films starring Cynthia Rothrock or Michelle Yeoh because they were portrayed in almost super hero fashion, but it wasn't always with the intention of purposely undermining men.
Modern Hollywood loves to cherry-pick what serves their wokeness gospel best, and that's no serious worldbuilding, that's just making excuses to push their message down the throat.
Exactly this. It becomes ever more present whenever I watch a Hollywood flick versus certain foreign films, especially Bollywood movies, where none of that wokeness is present.
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kukuxu (5409)
4 years ago
In Wuxia, yes, they were fantasy martial arts flicks. It wasn't about the gender, it was about the style (or how many styles you knew). That applied equally to men and women in Wuxia, where it was common for characters to get stronger based on the style they acquired/trained in.
Exactly.
And there you can see something that separates a coherent worldbuilding from propaganda movies. If you establish a narrative rule,
that rule applies no matter it fits your agenda or not. In wuxia movies, the rule is that '
style beats physical strength'. And that applies to females... and to everybody else. It applies to the typical 'old master' character too, that can beat easily other fighters even though he's in his 70s-80s and uses a cane to walk¹.
In woke movies, on the contrary, you don't see the usual 'evil old white dude' villain beating people easily in a fight, even though that should be the case if the '
physical strength doesn't matter' rule was applied in a coherent way. But woke movies don't care about coherent worldbuilding, they just want to serve their propaganda.
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¹ By the way, I think you've mentioned before the 'Cobra Kai' first season in a positive way (which I'd agree). It's interesting how 'Karate Kid' has been one of the very few western movies that could stay coherent when copying the '
style beats physical strength' rule from Asian movies, with Miyagi taking down opponents easily. You could like it or not. It's actually bullshit, real martial arts doesn't work that way at all, but... it's coherent well-done worldbuilding.
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