How much time has passed? Also, time? - Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

»How much time has passed since the beginning of the show?«

That’s actually a question that I would have asked within the next few days, too.
So IF it’s a stupid question, we’re both equally dumb. ;-)

»Also, do the folks in the GoT world have the same concept of years as we do?«

They do.
They celebrate their "name days" and when Sansa is asked how old she is in S01E01, she replies: »13«.
But I don’t know how they determine the years.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

>> So IF it’s a stupid question, we’re both equally dumb. <<

It's always great not being the only dummy around lol.

I thought of the name days after I posted the thread. Those should always land on the same day, so they must have some form of calendar. But I guess it's not important enough for the show to spend any time on it...

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[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

That's one thing that was never addressed in the books, how a people who live with long, irregular seasons came up with the concept of "years". Is there something else about that world's astronomy that has a yearly cycle, if the seasons don't? Does their sun move from its northern and southern meridians, even if the seasons don't change with it? You'd think they'd count time by lunar cycles, not solar ones, since their world seems to have the same moon as ours - so Bran would say he's "120 moons old", not "10 years old", since the waning and waxing of the moon is the only regular thing about his planet's natural cycles.

There. I have just proven myself to be an even bigger nerd than GRRM himself.

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

The lazy answer is that The Citadel has instruments to measure these things and a year is however many days they say it is.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

A valid point in my book! Maybe it's as simple as, GRRM went as far as the weird seasons, and didn't come up with a detailed explanation (I mean, weird seasons are cool, after all).

But even on Earth, the seasons aren't the same all over the planet. On the Equator it's summer all the time (right?). And closer to the Poles, it's day half the year and night the other half (and cold all the time). But those are fixed things, not the irregular seasons of that world... That's about as far as my brain can take me right now. It's difficult to figure out how that works in the GoT world (or I'm just dumb).

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[–] beauq81 (1125) 7 years ago

Honestly, I don't think it could have been more than 3. 4 years max.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

That seems like a fair estimate. :)

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

I have always wondered how much time has passed in the series, tv and books. It's never very clear. I assume somewhere between a few months and a few years, but it's hard to tell. The actors have grown up quite a bit, especially the Stark family, but we don't know if the same amount of time has passed in Westeros.

They do have some way to chronicle time, it's just the seasons that are weird. They probably just go by number of days or something; I don't remember any mention of months, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

It really does feel like months sometimes. But I think it's more likely that it's years, just because of all the traveling and how much time that would take.

Good point about them going by number of days. Of all the details Martin has provided, plus maps and family trees and all that, couldn't he have just put in a calendar as well? With the weird seasons, it'd be interesting to see how they measure months and years.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Good point; travel alone could take weeks to months.

I feel like someone has this figured out on Reddit or Tumblr or something, lol.

GRRM probably does have some way to keep track of time, but maybe it's too complicated to share with the general public.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

With the little knowledge I have of Reddit and Tumblr, it wouldn't surprise me if someone has lol.

From what I've heard, Martin relies on the fans to keep track even of the characters and events, so I'm not too sure he has a calendar...

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[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Little Sam helps to measure passage of time. He was born in Season 3 and he now appears to be ca 3 years old, and unless children in Westeros grow unusually fast, that would mean that last 3 seasons covered approximately 3 years.

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[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Good point!

Also, Myrcella was send to Dorne in Season 2 and in Season 5, she said she’d been there »for years«, which suggest two of them at least. ;-)
Generally, I’ve got the feeling (obviously, contrary to others) that each season covers roughly a year. So while not necessarily 6 years have passed in Westeros since the events of S01E01, I’d be surprised if it was less than 5 years.

Of course, that’s just a feeling and I might be totally wrong.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

Oh, nice observation! I completely forgot about baby Sam (and he was in the first ep. this season too). So roughly 4, maybe 5 years have passed.

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

Why does time matter? It seems to me that what matters is the story.

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[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Yes, you’re right of course.

But apart from being somewhat interesting (to me at least), it can help to prevent misunderstandings. For example, many people have complained that Euron build a fleet »overnight«, while I think that they simply underestimate the time that has passed since he ordered his people to build the ships.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

I don't think we're disregarding the story, but it is a point of interest to me how much time has passed. And I think the passing of time is important to a story. It shows if a change in a character is gradual or more abrupt. It can tell you for how long Theon and Sansa were tortured by Ramsay, for example. I think it would make a difference if it was two months or two years. It can also tell you for how long Theon was recovering from said torture, and maybe that contributed to him jumping of the ship. I'm sure there are many more examples.

So, to me, time is important and it is linked to the story. And, also, I'm just curious to know.

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[–] klownz (478) 7 years ago

Extreme right wing view! Trumptard! I am time fluid so take your B/S elsewhere! REPORTED! TROLL! Typical right wing Nazi denying my rights to identify as a time traveler.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

You had me going for a bit there, klownz lol.

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[–] klownz (478) 7 years ago

LOL yea I am just messing around.

(of course i didn't report you)

The episode before when John went North to bring the wildlings down Sam said to little stabby angry kid . that he had worried about John for years. You only really get glimpses of time passing like that but when Tyrion meets mother of dragons he also says he new of her & surprised by her accomplishments... all these time up in season 5 (i think) so the time line is right.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

Careful with that messing around, you'll give some one a mild heart palpation! lol

Thanks! They do mention "years" sometimes, but from the best of my memory, that's pretty much it. But, hey, it's something...

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[–] ADBruno1985 (3551) 7 years ago

I don't really have an answer. But I would say that this is one of the larger "flaws" in the show. In fairness, this problem exists in the books too. Stems from the fact that stories are apparently not all taking place concurrently. Best to just roll with it and not overthink it. If you need to, just remind yourself it's in a fictional world that has magic, so it might just work differently for them.

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[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

ADBruno, that was pretty much the point that I was trying to make. Mina, I absolutely respect your reasons for being curious about the timeline, but I've read and seen a lot of fantasy stories, and an accurate sense of how much time has passed is not the genre's strong suite; so I was encouraging you to enjoy it for what fantasy DOES have to offer.

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[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

»an accurate sense of how much time has passed is not the genre's strong suite«

Which doesn’t surprise me.
If I’d write a fantasy novel, I wouldn’t want to check if every idea that I have in my head fits to the time that it takes to go from point A to point B on horseback or on foot. I mean, if you write a contemporary novel, it’s easy: You want a character to go from A to B by car, you check Google Maps and within two minutes, you know how long it takes. You want him to travel by plane… well, for some routes Google Maps helps, too, or just enter "flight duration pointA pointB" into Google’s web search, and you’ll get an result that’s close enough for you to lay out the timeline of your story.

But if I’d had to calculate the time for every movement of every character in a fantasy world… I’d probably just stop writing at some point because I’m fed up with it. After all, I’m writing a novel, not a travel guide.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

I admit, I'm not that familiar with a lot of fantasy, so that aspect of the genre escapes me. As I said to ADBruno1985, I've accepted the wonky timeline, and though time is important to me (like I said in another comment), I certainly do enjoy the show (and books) without knowing all that, but I still want to know for curiosity's' sake :).

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

I've suspend my disbelief so far, so it's not a deal breaker. And I accept that it's just something inherent to the story, but I couldn't help, but just wonder :).

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[–] ADBruno1985 (3551) 7 years ago

Agreed. And it works. I mean, the basis of this world is that their seasons are severely out of whack with our own, so I guess time isn't a huge jump.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

I have to say, GoT has an odd mix (well odd for me) of the fantastical and also the realistic, which is something I really like both in the show and the books.

But, yes, with the weird seasons, and all the dead walking and dragons and what-not, the timeframe is the least thing to suspend your disbelief over.

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[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

I found a definitive answer.

Season 6 episode 8 Jaime meets with edmure Tully to convince him to surrender riverrun.

Edmure responds by saying "do you imagine yourself a good person? You've massacred my family. Kept me in a cell for YEARS."

He also believes he has a young child conceived on his wedding night. so that means at least nine months.

But he says YEARS, and Jaime does not correct him.

So there is you answer. From the red wedding to the battle of the bastards (end of season 6) is a few years in the show.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

Thanks! I admit, I forget some of the finer details and conversations that happen, so this was very helpful. :)

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[–] Alerra (244) 7 years ago

Another clue -- In Season 2? I think it was, Jaime says, "I've been in captivity for over a year."

Also, in Season 7, Cersei says something to the effect of, "Do you think I spent 40 years listening to Father and learning nothing?" So she and Jaime are probably somewhere in their mid 40's (they're twins, remember). Robert Baratheon was king for about 14 years, and prior to that, Jaime was young, but old enough to be in the King's Guard. So if Jaime was in his early to mid 20's when Robert was crowned, spent 14 years in Robert's Guard, and is now in his mid 40's, that gives a time frame of about 6 years or so.

That last bit is somewhat speculative, but it does help, at least for me anyway.

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[–] dpatel313 (31) 7 years ago

From what ive read each season covers roughly a year. Even though some seasons pick up right after the other, the time of the whole season will be a year

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

To me, a season certainly doesn't feel like a year, but it makes more sense if it is. Thanks for the information. :)

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

On the second part of your question, I assume they are using 12 lunar cycles to measure their year in lieu of the seasons.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

That's a good explanation, since I guess one rotation of the planet around their sun is out of the question (I assume).

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[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

IF they live on a planet that revolves around a sun at all.
I mean… hey, Middle Earth is flat in the beginning, so the world of GoT can be flat, too, can’t it?

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

I suppose anything is possible in a fantasy world. But I really like adam-176's theory below, of them being on a moon.

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[–] adam-176 (32) 7 years ago

It may well be that Westeros and Essos, rather than being on a planet, are on a moon. Day and night, rather than being based on their own lunar cycle, are dictated by the rotation of the moon on which they stand facing them away from the sun (or they could have their own, smaller satellite acting like a moon).

The length of a year would be dictated by their orbit around their planet, with the seasons dependant on when the orbit puts the moon in line with the planet and the sun (lunar eclipse). The variable length and severity of the winters would be accounted for by whether or not it's a total lunar eclipse or only partial.

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[–] MinaVladimir (4086) 7 years ago

Oh, that's really clever adam! The thought of them being on a moon never even crossed my mind. That'll surely explain both the length of the year and the weird seasons. Excellent theory!

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[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

I liked that theory, too…

… but it just came to my mind:
Haven’t we seen the moon on various occasions? I’m almost certain we have, but I couldn’t pick out a specific scene.
They most certainly _have_ a moon, because Drogo called Dany »Moon of My Life«.

So, can a moon have a moon? I don’t know (and for the moment, I’m too lazy to google that).

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[–] Nosduj (145) 7 years ago

Don't you think the "planet" in this case would be quite visible from this "moon"?

A giant planetary body in the sky over Westeros would be deeply ingrained in the histories. It would be linked to all sorts of occurrences.

Try again.

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[–] adam-176 (32) 7 years ago

Our own moon has a dark side which never faces us. The Westeros / Essos moon could be the same thing - all it would need is for its own speed of rotation to keep it facing away from the planet as it orbits. It's orbit would then determine the night / day cycle.

The only question (as Atarimaster pointed out) is if a moon can have its own moon / satellite.

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[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

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[–] Nosduj (145) 7 years ago

So if these Westerosi just kept moving towards the horizon they would eventually see a planet start peaking over the horizon? I don't think so.

There are many people who have traveled far and wide and not a soul has mentioned anything about a planet around which this "moon" orbits.

Do you not think that after 10,000 years of human habitation, the Maesters or the Red Priests or some sailor somewhere would have made mention of it? There is not even a hint of a legend regarding a planet.

BTW, our moon does have a side which never faces us but it is not always dark. Sometimes the far-side is the dark side and sometimes the near-side is the dark side.

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[–] adam-176 (32) 7 years ago

BTW, our moon does have a side which never faces us but it is not always dark. Sometimes the far-side is the dark side and sometimes the near-side is the dark side.

That much is true, I highlighted the wrong feature. The important part is that there is a side that always faces away from us.

As for the Westerosi not knowing of the planet - they're the equivalent of medieval Earth civilisation, before global circumnavigation; they wouldn't necessarily have known of anything too far beyond the western coast of Westeros or the eastern coast of Essos. Alternatively, there could be yet another continent inhabited by people who have killed all outsiders.

Or GRRM could have an entirely different explanation of time ("it's all magic").

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