MovieChat Forums > Unthinkable (2010) Discussion > Wow! Unthinkable #3 on IMDB!

Wow! Unthinkable #3 on IMDB!

posted 15 years ago by Caldecot
255 replies | jump to latest

As producer, I am really pleased that the picture is stirring interest and attention, and mostly positive. Getting 7.3 in User Reviews is a good mark. Hitting #3 in the IMDB title rankings is astonishing, especially since it's a climb from about 3000 two weeks ago.

But I have to ask, how are you seeing the movie? There's no theatrical release because the deal collapsed in the money crisis and the distribution company went belly-up. SONY hasn't released it on DVD in the US yet. That comes in two weeks, on June 15.

Are you seeing it on pirated torrents? Googling "Unthinkable Samuel Jackson movie torrent" gives me many choices from which to download an earlier cut with only temp music (Graham Revell created a terrific score, by the way). It's not the finished movie but it's sorta close. The ending's a little different, for one thing.

Personally I feel strangely conflicted. On the one hand, there's so much positive response -- believe me, I've made movies no-one cared about! -- and on the other, all this seems to be coming from folks who have stolen the work of a lot of people, watched it without paying for it.

That this is a ticking bomb movie that asks a moral question makes a moral question about how you see it appropriate, I guess.

I'm not interested in condemning you if that's how you saw it. I'm interested in asking the question. How do you feel about it?

[–] cstu11 15 years ago

"Personally I feel strangely conflicted. On the one hand, there's so much positive response -- believe me, I've made movies no-one cared about! -- and on the other, all this seems to be coming from folks who have stolen the work of a lot of people, watched it without paying for it. "

I downloaded it and thought it was great, maybe the best movie I've seen this year. I can see why you'd be torn but the way I'd look at it is as a huge - and free - pre-screening (you don't call those people thieves do you?) that is going to get the movie noticed and build word of mouth.

I personally don't think you have anything to be upset about since most people don't have the time nor the inclination to mess with torrents. Everyone but a small percentage of people are still going to rent the DVD or pay to watch it on PPV.

[–] bugiam 15 years ago

Thank you producing and helping this movie come to life. I enjoyed it from start to finish. I watched a 720p download and the dvd has been pre-ordered! I sincerly believe that while piracy might not be stealing by definition, it's a awful thing to do if you're not prepared to pay for it. Just because you can get something for free doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. When i download something and i haven't paid for it with a subscription or pre-order it afterwards(if it's not a complete piece of crap that is) i feel i'm doing something illegal and imoral. People are lazy and cheap. But i agree that cinema tickets are way to pricey, at least in my country - i get pissed when i pay for something and i still have to watch 15-20 minutes of commercials before the movie starts.

Internet distribution is the way of the future, with global release dates!

Thanks again, great movie!

[–] glasgowpete1 15 years ago

Watched this last night. Michael Sheen turns in another great performance.

Quite enjoyable and left you guessing until the end.

7/10

[–] packro 15 years ago

For some reason, you make me think you are Samuel Jackson. Which happens to be one of my favorite actors. It's just the way you word your posts. But even if you aren't and even if you are some sort of imposter producer, I'm going to watch this movie when I get a chance.

[–] Caldecot 15 years ago

I love Sam's voice. Thanks for thinking mine sounds like his. But I've done two movies with him and there's no way I'd try to impersonate him (or pretend he was me). He can be quite intimidating, you know.

[–] packro 15 years ago

I just wanted to let you know I saw the movie. A friend of mine downloaded it from the net. It's a VERY good movie! Almost jerked tears from my eyes. Acting was superb! I'm definitely going to be buying this on DVD. It kinda started out slow but that doesn't matter because it makes up for it BIG TIME! Thanks for being a part of such a great movie. I'll be telling everyone I know that this movie is worth buying (or renting if that's their thing).

[–] Battlejayroyale 15 years ago

Well, I saw it in theatre over here in Belgium. It's been playing here for two weeks already. It's going out tomorrow though. But then again, you ain't getting any money of of it because I saw it for free as I am a projectionist.
But it was a nice movie !

I just didn't want to be a loser anymore.

[–] the_incredible_july_st 15 years ago

Well I have to say I did enjoy the movie very much!!! Strong plot + Good acting + Nice theme music also => A friend of mine sent me this movie so I don't know where the heck did he get it! And yet I don't think the ending that I saw was the best you guys can make from such a strong plot, I think it's not so bad. I am so looking for the "long ugly" ending that has been told. Sorry to hear that the movie did not have a chance to be released in theater. It could have been a smash to all American citizens.

[–] Milkyway123 15 years ago

Caldecot, VERY interesting that a producer on a relatively high-profile film (I say this because you got Jackson, Sheen and Moss) found his way here and is educating himself on..., you name it!

I just got an email from SONY (I subscribe) telling me specifically about this film 'Uthinkable'. Truthfully, I thought it was a crap film, Sam Jackson is known for doing a few of those (even though he is very talented). And to be even more frank, I HATE the title of this film (you DO judge a thing by its cover), sounds like a typical B- Hollywood film. So I was quite chocked to find it had a good rating and good word of mouth (still haven't seen it). And the film's subject seems to be of an important nature (something the tvshow '24' thrives on and manipulates so disgustingly!= the main character torturing people and always being right and always get correct information from it, and audiences cheer on and think this is how things would go down).

I have only skimmed this thread and I read some interesting posts I must say.
Over the years, when the subject of piracy has been brought up, it is almost hysterically funny how people justify it. They are TRULY jumping on the bandwagon. I have an intelligent friend who is very well versed in to all technological stuff, piracy etc etc. But when I asked him questions about ethical, legal and whatnot with piracy, he just regurgitated what others were saying! He was jumping on the bandwagon as so many people do.
It's really a naive, stupid, uneducated and narrow minded view of piracy. Now, am I so much better? No. I used to do it (I don't watch movies anymore, it has left a bad taste in my mouth, there is too much trash nowadays to filter through + I've lost all respect for film) as well. But the difference is I never fooled myself or others BSing that it wasn't stealing. At least if you are gonna download illegally, admit to implications of that activity, don't go around and boast it is not illegal, stealing or whatever.
Anyway... I buy movies when I find that they are good after I've viewed them. As I want them in a physical form with original packaging etc. Before, I downloaded and burned it on to cds, but that really bore me after a while. I wanted to have a real cool film collection with all original. And I think THOSE kind of people are really film lovers who would pay for their movies even when illegally downloading. I have found that those who settle for "just download it/burn it on cd" to be those who would never pay a dime either way for watching a film. That means, yeah, there is not so much money lost as you might think, but definitely still a lot, but just not as much.

Mr. Caldecot, it is unfortunate that this movie won't get any push because of the company going bankrupt, but have you thought about alternative methods? Doesn't Apple/itunes offer to put up films in their store in exchange for a fee? Also, why hasn't the stars of this film gotten on talkshows and promoted this film?

[–] Caldecot 15 years ago

@Milkyway123, thanks for taking the time to explore these issues here. Believe me when I say nobody knows how to handle digital access. They can beef up their security and probably should, but as Peter Dekom said, people who try to fight piracy "are building a bridge in the middle of the ocean."

There's got to be a better way, and I don't doubt that some of the ideas expressed here will turn out to be incorporated in distribution strategies in the future.

But there's a real problem in that theater owners, exhibitors, will fight tooth and nail to keep the theatrical run exclusive for as long as possible. Look how they fought Disney over a short theatrical run for "Alice In Wonderland," and they only relaxed because it was 3-D, with a shortage of 3-D screens and another 3-D picture they wanted to play coming right after. They want to keep their exclusive "window" (as it's called) as long as possible.

For me, as a producer (but not a financier or distributor or exhibitor), it makes sense to offer the product the the audience at the same time at different levels of quality: one price for 720p immediate downloads of the movie only, another higher price for 1080p or BluRay DVDs with extras, and a third (or fourth) price for the movie on a big screen with an audience (and possibly 3-D). But I don't have a vested interest in the way things are. Others do.

As to why no promotional support, I can't say. Maybe the stigma that's attached to "straight to DVD" isn't something that the actors or their publicists want. Makes sense to me. Seems like Sam or Michael or Carrie Anne would immediately have to sound defensive if interviewed, and who wants that?

I'm hoping the phenomenal success of the picture will continue, with its high approval ratings, when SONY and the other distributors roll it out on DVD and BluRay starting Tuesday (iTunes etc will follow shortly, I believe. The whole DVD market is depressed, but maybe we'll benefit from the positive word of mouth we're getting through the torrent and streaming sites and from here. Stay tuned.

[–] lars-398 15 years ago

Just wanted to drop my 2 cents. I'm guessing that you are Caldecot Chubb, have only skimmed previous posts, but I'm also glad to see some of the "big boys" trying to communicate directly with the audience. I haven't yet seen the movie myself, but I must say that it sounds very interesting, and I'm really looking forward to it. I think the questions about piracy is a dead end, people will NEVER agree on what is right or wrong in this debate, but I think (as many others) that piracy is both good and bad for the industry, good in the sense that it gives ALOT of publicity. And bad in the financial sense. I heard of a research in costumer satisfaction once. The research was about how negativ and positive experience in a store would spread from one person to another. And they found out (roughly) that if 1 person has a bad experience in a store, then up to 5 other people would not visit that store, but if 1 person had a good experience then at least 3 other people would visit the store. Makes me think about the old expression "There's no such thing as bad publicity" - which in this case was proven untrue. So you could say, that if 1 person watches a pirated movie and tells his friends about it (let's say 5 people) and 3-4 of those people buys the movie it was "worth it" in the end. But what i don't understand is why the movie industry doesn't learn from the videogame industry, and e.g. use "beta" testers, like they do with videogames, and give X amount of people in various countries the opportunity to see the film and let nature take its course. I do believe that there will be more hype about good movies, and bad movies will get what they deserve. As for the piracy discussion, I am neither pro or con, I don't think it will ever change. I,myself, however own a large 500+ dvd collection that i love, and they are ALL retail - paid with my own hardearned money.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english - it's not my first language.

[–] Milkyway123 15 years ago

Caldecot:
"As to why no promotional support, I can't say. Maybe the stigma that's attached to straight to DVD isn't something that the actors or their publicists want. Makes sense to me. Seems like Sam or Michael or Carrie Anne would immediately have to sound defensive if interviewed, and who wants that?"
That actually did come to my mind, BUT there is no shame in that the company behind the film went bankrupt (especially during these difficult times). To come out there and tell the truth, and just say: "this is a film I/we are very proud of and I wanted to spread the word it is out there". I recall Guy Pearce and Joe Pantoliano did that for "Memento" (which really didn't have a promotional budget, or otherwise, at all) - they went on Jay Leno and promoted the film and said/admitted that the film had a really low budget and they had to even cut salaries etc.
If the film went straight to DVD because it was poor, THEN your argument would totally be valid (although I haven't seen the film YET, but I trust the word of mouth here).
Sam Jackson has been on the Leno show a lot and he is very honest and laid back when he is on (and this is also his attitude to his fans and the public), and he is good friends (at least on the Hollywood level) to Leno and the Tonight Show. Sheen is very goofy - he made jokes about being overlooked in both "Frost/Nixon" and "The Queen", and he is starring in the "Underworld" franchise and now "Twilight", so the guy doesn't take himself THAT seriously (plus, he is a Brit ;D). Carrie, from every interview I have seen of her, she is very sharp and proud of whatever work she agrees on doing. I couldn't imagine she would feel embarrassed to promote a film that she was proud of, just because of budget problems to its advertising and distribution.
So I just can't see why not. I mean, I would understand if they would say no, but I am not sure they would say no. Was it even considered, asked at least?
I don't know why there would be reason to be defensive. Kate Beckinsale had a film last year that was "buried" because the company went bankrupt. She proudly said it was her best work, and people talked about award nominations for her if the company hadn't went bankrupt. You see this all the time in Hollywood. So I really don't understand why anyone would be defensive.
So, I really think it comes down to what reason it went straight to DVD or whatever - bad film or bad circumstances? I have never seen, heard or met anyone to be ashamed of the latter as an excuse.

"I'm hoping the phenomenal success of the picture will continue, with its high approval ratings, when SONY and the other distributors roll it out on DVD and BluRay starting Tuesday (iTunes etc will follow shortly, I believe. The whole DVD market is depressed, but maybe we'll benefit from the positive word of mouth we're getting through the torrent and streaming sites and from here. Stay tuned."
It would really be nice if you updated us on its progress when some results are in. It would be interesting to hear.
Good luck sir!

[–] sydney-64 15 years ago

This is a great discussion. I am very sorry to hear of the piracy and I hope that Sony does not use that as a stopper in releasing the film (does the contract say the agreement is null and void if the film is pirated first?). I wonder if all this word of mouth will help sales...will you monitor that? Let me know if you want to to say anything special on my blog. Thanks!!

[–] swsscott 15 years ago

hmmmm Maybe piracy is the consumers way too limiting the movie industry? If movie companies can no longer afford to make *beep* movies like a all the crappy parady movies and movies based on *beep* would it be that bad?

I think its a dog eat dog world and if i dont want to pay that much for a product and there's no other product. i will find a cheaper way until that product comes down in price.

I am in no way saying your movie is crappy but the fact that it is going straight to dvd means i will not immediately buy it but i will try it out these are just my thought thats why netflix is great

and piracy can hurt the industry but this hurt may be what we need..........

[–] lekzz 15 years ago

Or as it's often said: "Pirates deliver a better product"

In this case by delivering bluray rips of a movie that wasn't released theatrical or on dvd/bluray yet.

Another nice recent example: http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/10/04/30/1917203/emAvatarem-Blu-Ray-DRM-Issues?from=rss
(DRM just hurts paying customers... Smart move to piss of the paying customers, guess where they will look next.)

Isn't it obvious something is wrong here, to me it is... Why isn't it to the movie distributors?

Have you guys even seen how big the online music industry has become? (And do you really think that industry would have gotten that big without mp3?)

I understand it will take some time to adopt to a new business model, but it's been going on for some 10 years now. There's been plenty of time and the music industry has already done it.

Sorry, but i have lost all respect for an industry that ignores customers for a decade, but come crying when there ancient extortion models do not work anymore while enough people who are willing to pay just don't get the chance or inferior products.

[–] sportsfan99 15 years ago

Or as it's often said: "Pirates deliver a better product"

In this case by delivering bluray rips of a movie that wasn't released theatrical or on dvd/bluray yet.

I wouldn't say they deliver a better product...but they deliver it faster and "cheaper".

Of course they delivered the blu ray before there is no dvd/bluray in stores yet...that's how it's been for years. But that's because the distributors already delivered to the stores weeks in advanced...it just hasn't been made public yet. But that goes for virtually EVERY single movie released on DVD.

As an example...you know anyone who worked at Blockbuster? They start renting out a movie on Tues...and yet it's been in their possession for 3-4 weeks now. How easy is it for an employee to take one of the rentals as soon as they get it, go home and rip it? And there you have it...a digital copy of a movie has been made, several weeks before the dvd is made available to the public.

Same with this movie. The DVD goes on sale June 15, so I'm guessing the first dvdrip (not dvd screener) hit the internet some time towards the end of May.

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[–] Caldecot 15 years ago

Not sure, darrellj88, why you deleted your previous post but since I'd composed a reply, I'll post it here...

Well, it's true that when you buy a movie ticket, or rent a video from iTunes, or drop a buck at Redbox, or have a Netflix subscription, you can't decide who gets what part of your dollar (or whatever your currency is).

And when you buy a car you can't decide the guy who made the windshield should get more than the guy who ... you see the point.

There's almost as many ways of getting movies financed as there are movies these days. "Unthinkable" got the money that it needed to get made from several sources, not just Sony. And each of those sources (detailed in other posts in this thread or in "The right price?") hopes to get paid back, or maybe even profit a bit.

If they don't make money from "Unthinkable", they are less likely to invest in similar movies. And if they don't invest, the movies don't get made and the people whom you might want to get paid don't get another job. It's simple like that.

Whether Sony is a big corporation or not doesn't really enter into it. I hope that clarifies some of the issues you're grappling with.

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[–] francus_caetus 15 years ago

Caldecot, It's a pleasure to meet the producer of this great movie. I rely rely rely love your movie. And yes I've download it from torrents, the pirate bay to be more specific.

The reason I download it, aside from being a 720p release and the high rate on imdb was because I live in Mozambique. Here its a very difficult country for movie lovers. We only have like 2 movie theaters... Movies here get to the theater 3 months or so after the official releases. The only 2 movies that were released on time were "The day after tomorrow" (not sure why) and Ali (witch was filmed here).

There are no BlueRay shops. The only time I see a BlueRay cover or disc is when playing Playstation 3 (bought in Europe) or when I leave my country.

The Piracy here is so deep that if I go right now to the streets, I can see pirated DVD copies on a hands of a kid selling for 2$ or less of movies like The Karate Kid, The A-team and Shrek Forever After, the police only apprehend porn movies. The even buy that crap themselves.

Many people here don't care about the poor quality of the movie they just want to see the movie.

That's why movies like Avatar never got released in our theaters, and I only saw it last month when finished downloading the 46Gb pirated version.

I have even try to buy online but my bank doesn't allow this kind of transactions, we have only one bank where those type of VISA transactions can me made... :(

And left me with 3 reasonable choices
1. Wait till things get better in my country,
2. Pirate Bay
3. Change country

I chose pirate bay while I wait till things get better...

Sorry mate but as far as I know... this is the only way I have to keep up with this "globalization" thing you guys created.

Big Hug from Mozambique

PS: Sorry for my poor English

Look Beyond What you can see
www.MyMoviesDataBase.blogspot.com

[–] Caldecot 15 years ago

I'd choose Pirate Bay too, were I in your shoes, I suppose. But if you have the chance to rent the picture, please do. The people that paid for it need to get paid back or they won't make any more of my movies!

[–] kwon234ioud1 15 years ago

Sorry this movie went straight to DVD. It was one of the best movies I have seen in a while. I hope your investors make their money back at least. I never buy movies after downloading from bittorrent because I chalk it up to standard tragedy of the commons that occurs in situations like these. Historically, laws are usually effective in preventing them, but copyright laws lag so much behind technological advances that it is futile to use them at this junction.

I recall reading from Mark Twain's biography how much money he lost to British publishers who ripped off his works and sold it for pennies because of arcane international copyright laws.

This "problem" with bittorrents will keep going on because no one controls distribution so no one single entity can monetize any form of content. In fact, each user is a de facto self-publisher of the content when we upload the seeds while downloading it. You have to go after so many people that's cost/benefit ratio isn't worth it even after accounting for fines.

Internet service providers could prevent torrenting, but its not in their best interest to do so. Internet service providers welcome bittorrent because the proliferation of the "free" content is driving the demand for broadband and high speed internet among other things. You can't download without having high speed internet. On the other hand, you won't get high speed internet if there isn't anything to download.

The internet model is currently flawed. The internet carriers treat each GB of data as a commodity with a flat price. There is no system for differentiating between a loaf of bread and caviar. It'll change once they have an incentive to differentiate packets of data.

In the future, you'll be able to monetize content again profitably over the internet. But only when the major carriers like Verizon, AT&T, and Comcast have consolidated the physical distribution of data and move into content. Right now Apple is king because of their closed systems by selling content that only operate on their popular devices. But once content producers bleed money like crazy, these carriers will buy you guys out because they are the only ones with the fence.

A good example is ESPN 360.

I'll try to buy your DVD because I feel sorry you guys lost money and I really enjoyed it. Though to be honest, I would prefer if you released a limited edition of the DVD like Criteron as a collector's item for people who already watched it.