MovieChat Forums > Unthinkable (2010) Discussion > Wow! Unthinkable #3 on IMDB!

Wow! Unthinkable #3 on IMDB!


As producer, I am really pleased that the picture is stirring interest and attention, and mostly positive. Getting 7.3 in User Reviews is a good mark. Hitting #3 in the IMDB title rankings is astonishing, especially since it's a climb from about 3000 two weeks ago.

But I have to ask, how are you seeing the movie? There's no theatrical release because the deal collapsed in the money crisis and the distribution company went belly-up. SONY hasn't released it on DVD in the US yet. That comes in two weeks, on June 15.

Are you seeing it on pirated torrents? Googling "Unthinkable Samuel Jackson movie torrent" gives me many choices from which to download an earlier cut with only temp music (Graham Revell created a terrific score, by the way). It's not the finished movie but it's sorta close. The ending's a little different, for one thing.

Personally I feel strangely conflicted. On the one hand, there's so much positive response -- believe me, I've made movies no-one cared about! -- and on the other, all this seems to be coming from folks who have stolen the work of a lot of people, watched it without paying for it.

That this is a ticking bomb movie that asks a moral question makes a moral question about how you see it appropriate, I guess.

I'm not interested in condemning you if that's how you saw it. I'm interested in asking the question. How do you feel about it?

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[deleted]

Sorry you didn't like it. Fortunately that seems to be a minority opinion!

And maybe you're right that the buzz will create demand for actual sales. It doesn't seem that way from the statistics but every movie is different.

The one thing I might note, though, is that calling the practice of downloading movies "file-sharing" makes it seem kind of generous, maybe even noble. "Hey we're just sharing..." But really, when you look at it honestly, it's theft.

Maybe there will be an upside, as you note, that will spike sales. But it's still stealing, isn't it?

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[deleted]

That's a LEGAL way to do it, at least.

Hope you get prosecuted.

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People put great effort into making the stuff you talk about. It's their job.
If they didn't do that, without the passion they pour into it (even if the results are poor), you wouldn't have the benefit of not having to do your own entertainment or enrichment material yourself -so you can dedicate to other more important things, like WHATEVER YOU ACTUALLY DO.

Art makes you grow.


If you don't support any of that, how do you expect people will keep putting their hearts and effort into doing unapreciated, underexploited and underpayed products?

Think about people whose talent is to make you grow. Gone to waste because you can't support them. Being forced to do something they are not good nor happy to do.



Sure, they might be controlled financially by bullying organizations like the RIAA or whatever but there are better ways. I can only think of forcing prices to go lower to a just price by the offer/demand way, but if you can think of another solution go ahead and do something useful.

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Theft deprives someone the use of their property. If I take your car, you no longer have your car. That's theft. If I download your movie (one that's unavailable through sanctioned channels no less), I am not depriving you of property. You still have both the original film and all the rights to market it. It could be argued that I'm depriving you of a profit, but whether or not that profit would have occurred in the first place, let alone what amount that profit would be, is all very nebulous. At best, it's a probability of profit that decreased to zero.

So that's the downside.

Still, I go to the cinema quite often -- at least once a month, often twice. With a family of four, that's a significant contribution to the motion picture industry IMO -- nearly $1,000/yr, which is a sizable portion of my own salary -- and that money goes not only toward paying for the film I saw, but toward bankrolling other films that I may or may not see. I also pay for satellite TV with tons of channels I never watch, many of which pay to license films for broadcast. One way or another, that money tends to reach film makers. Chances are, some of it reached you.

Further, because I enjoyed your film, and because I enjoyed reading your posts (along with the insightful piece on HuffPo), I'll be more likely to pay money to see something else you produce in the future. So the probability of the present profit may have fallen to zero (though I submit that the lack of theatrical release was probably the biggest nail in that coffin) but the probability of future profit just increased substantially.

At any rate, people (including myself) will still pay for entertainment, even when free alternatives exist for that very same entertainment. As long as people have consciences, that will continue to be true, and I'll continue to view it as sharing.

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I wasn't going to reply to this originally, but as I own and operate a publishing company, and I have to deal with some of these issues to a much smaller degree, I feel the need to nip this one in the butt:

"Theft deprives someone the use of their property."

Actually, sorry, but that's not true. Theft is taking something that isn't yours to take. What form that thing takes is not part of the definition - and I looked it up in a Oxford dictionary to check it. So, yes, you acquired a copy of the movie without the right to do so, and that's theft.

Now, you may have gotten free swag out of it, but rationalize it. Have the courage to be honest with yourself and call it what it is. You took something you shouldn't have, when you could have just waited and rented the DVD. You got away with something - that's all it amounts to. And here's a thought - if you really enjoyed this producer's film and want to support him, lay down the money to buy the DVD.

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Theft in a dictionary and Theft in law are two different things.


Theft in law in different countries vary also.


Generally it's rationalised to Theft of Property. Now we need to define what is property. A DVD Case/Disc is a physical item can be owned, so that is property, hence why taking a DVD off a shelf without paying is obviously theft. The actual video itself with no physical form - can be easily argued for and against.


Now lets get onto Law, specifically English Law, the Theft Act 1968, I quote...

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it".

The copyright holder is not deprived of their video at an point. The money for it? Money was never their property in the first place so you cannot claim you are depriving them of money (also, what about the retailers that would lose out?).

Courage - I think courage is doing something that you think is so obviously illegal, so openly. ;)



You know what really puts off someone buying a DVD/Movie... a bitchy studio whining and whining, taking advantage of all of the perks of the internet, and crying over the negatives.



I note specifically Hurt Locker... it was apparently doing well with awards etc, but after hearing they were going for pirates etc... everyone was saying how much it sucked and it's awards were plainly based on politics etc.

Thus - I will not be buying/watching that movie, whereas before I was considering it based on the awards.

And now I lose confidence in awards.







Now, morality... generally something is illegal because the majority assumes it's wrong and we shouldn't do it. Heck, slave labour used to be perfectly normal and legal, but now it isn't. Today a lot of people think that downloading is perfectly fine (and even rationalise it), if 99% of the population thing it's okay... are the left over 1% "right" ?



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How does Godwin's Law apply in an ACTUAL Nazi/Hitler argument?

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Great post :)
I never could stand when people claim piracy to be theft when it is clearly not. I'm not on the side of those who speak out against piracy, but if they seriously wanted to end piracy, there would have to be a new law and definition regarding piracy (illegal downloading, whatever you want to call it). Prosecuting people for theft when they pirate something simply does not work.

Check out "Don't Download This Song" by Weird Al Yankovich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM8PT1eAvY
It satirizes the issue. He even offered it for free download on his web site.

b]I am free in all the ways that you are not [/b]

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What I do is I watch a movie online and if it is good enough, I will take my partner and/or kids to see it as I only feel like I should pay to watch good movies. If people want to make crap, why should we waste our £ on it?

HELP ME!!! I need to know if I am alone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFzThGyt5vM

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Funny note to your post..

Based on your recommendation, I visited youtube to give the track a listen.

It's blocked in my country due to copyright claims.

So.. the artist shares it for free on his own website, yet the studio is blocking it?

I find that hilarious, and an excellent example of everything that's wrong with the recording/movie-making industry today.

Making records and movies is for the executives, not for the artists or even the writers who do all the real work.

Heck, any real artist would be thrilled with the thought that their art reached as many people as humanly possible. And today, it is.

I, however, will be eagerly awaiting the proper DVD release of this movie.

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You have opened up an entire new line of moral reasoning. I should eat a dinner out, then decide whether to pay for it? I should read a book, and if I like it then pay for it? Should I go to the doctor and only pay if I like the outcome? Part of life is the uncertainty of whether you, the consumer, will be pleased with the product. You pay first, if you don't like the outcome, too bad. The lesson has been learned, don't buy another of the product, but don't skip the obligation to pay for use.

Harry Lime

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When I go out to eat something, I decide to go for Chinese food for example instead of Mexican cause I don't like it too hot and spicy. I have a menu and can make a choice based on previous information about a particular type of food. I'm not blindly taking anything into my mouth (as hilarious and ambiguous as it may sound)and I'm not told beforehand that it's gonna be an example of absolute culinary prowess. Unlike movie trailers, which do EXACTLY that. They show the movie as a completely different product than what it in fact is. Considering that trailers (based on which I'm supposed to decide whether or not I'm gonna watch it) are pretty much the only "preview" of a movie that I have, other than director/writer/cast/genre information, then outright LIES that are so often put into trailers cause a great deal of anger since the final product is far from what it was supposed to be. Example? Daybreakers. I don't hate the movie, I actually quite liked it despite a few issues, but the trailer! Man that trailer showed a whole different movie with tons of action and super duper special effects. That's precisely what I expected out of it so imagine my surprise. I was lied to. I didn't walk out of the cinema, I went through it till the end but I was somewhat disappointed. I've got nothing against more ambitious and thought-provoking movies, but advertise them AS SUCH, instead of the above-mentioned case.

If you go to a doctor, you have a right to expect he will find the source of the problem with your health and apply a proper treatment. If the treatment is not proper, and the outcome is worse than before the treatment began, you can sue the doctor justifing it as medical error. Literally, you have the right to expect certain grade of medical service and nothing less. No such thing with lousy movie. You just get a movie and you can only watch it or not. There's no quality of service here, although obviously people have different taste and some like things that other people don't, just like food.

When you buy a book, you know exactly who the author is since you probably googled the name and read some wikipedia info. You can go to a mall and get the book in your hands, see how many pages there are, how it's written - whether you like the form, the language, the "feel" of it, hell you can even read the ending and put it back on the shelf LEGALLY. That way you get to know exactly what you can expect from a book. No misleading trailers or anything like that. What you see is what you get. With movie you don't have this option available. You're going blind. Of course like I said earlier you know the cast, the director, budget, studio, synopsis, reviews etc. That's a lot but still you can get disappointed, and, in my case - I often am. Not very often but more than I'd like.

The music is another thing. Many times you get to actually listen to a piece or two off an album, legally, on the band/soloist's site. Sometimes a fraction of every song. This is a LOT, and you can right away decide whether you will like it and want to pay for it or not. With movies you get... yes, you got it right. Trailers. Please.

Life is indeed about uncertainties, but it's also about overcoming them and limiting them a much as possible to prevent disappointments or fatal/tragic events. The further we go into 21st century, the more of those uncertainties disappear. Of course many new ones show up but this is exactly the endless circle of facing and overcoming obstacles in our lives.



"It's dangerous to be right, when the government is wrong." Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire

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Well, let's say in your example that you have some Chinese food, and you don't like it. It's edible but it's not up to snuff, but you eat it anyway. Do you argue not to pay?
With movies and books there is surely enough advance information these days that you will have a good idea if you like it or you wont. There have been surprises either way, but you decide to see the movie in the theater. You don't like it. What do you do, ask for your money back?

If you go to a doctor, you expect reasonable care and patient's rights. You would like a positive outcome but it is no guarantee. You must pay for the doctor's time, cost of lab and x-rays. There is no way around this. You cannot sue the doctor for bad outcome unless you can prove malpractice and damages, not an easy thing to do. You must show that you were harmed due to some action on the part of the doctor, to miss the diagnosis, and you must prove damages.

Nowadays with books and music, you can sample them galore, often find them for free, so it should be very rare.

Movie trailers are meant to be deceptive and even when way too long, they confuse. I've tended to disregard them entirely, like the movie critics who I also disregard. So you can winnow somewhat by reading reviews, seeing clips on TV or websites, get bootleg copies, rent the movie for $2-3 after all that, it's your gamble.
Harry Lime

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Regarding the books, you can read almost any book for free at libraries, and yet a lot of those same authors get *beep* of money. And libraries are unequivocally book "sharing" centers, with free information for all. A lot of the time you can even "check out" and/or rent DVDs... and last time I checked the only place that gets money from a rented DVD is the place you rent it from.

My vote history: www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=22981176

My iCM: tinyurl.com/4c9erff

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I saw this on cable. It is a weak examination of the subject at best. It is unrealistic because proper thought and research were not done in preparation to spending the millions of dollars that brought this propaganda film to life.
Now since you want to question how I saw it and what I paid for it, let me say this. Every month I pay fresh new money to my provider for the privilege of watching the same stale overused reruns they have been playing for the last few years. Those associated with those few films are paid residuals and some will be collecting money from these few works decades after they are dead and gone. Yet there are thousands of movies I will never get to see, that I can only read about here on IMDB because they are not available to me at any outlet or by any method I have found. I suppose the producers did not pay the right people for distribution. You ran into that problem with this film. Right?
Now you want to talk about downloaders cheating the Artists out of money, and preach the moral implications of file sharing.
I see people in the movie industry as being egotistical and greedy.
I have supported the entertainment industry with my purchases since I was a child. When my VCR and music tapes went obsolete, I had invested thousands of dollars into something that quickly wore out and often damaged my machines when those tapes malfunctioned. I finally threw the bulk of my tape collection away. I believe that legally I am still entitled to the use of whatever was in that collection even should I reacquire it using file sharing. I also believe that after a film has gone into TV reruns its commercial value has been mostly exhausted. The price of most products go way down after they reach the break even point and then lower after the market is saturated (reruns). Not movies, a hit makes a profit the first weekend and holds a high price longer because of it.
I know that you in the motion picture industry believe that if I rent a movie and watch it with a few of my friends over the weekend that my friends are stealing from you because they got to see it for free. Stars (egotists) want to live like royalty off their fans sweat and blood.
I would love to be able to make my living from sending my picture in to work. I worked in construction and manufacturing. In order for me to make residuals I should be paid for every hour the products I built were used by every person who used them for whatever purpose. Keep in mind that shelter is a life or death necessity, while the best your industry has to offer is some dubious enlightenment. I and many psychologists believe that movie roll models are responsible for much of the criminality our society is suffering from. The female body idea inspired by media wrecks the health of many. I am sure you have heard the allegations.
Since we are talking value judgments here with this film, consider this. When someone buys a home and then sell it later for a profit, do you think that the floor guy should share in that profit because his superior work outlasted the original owner? Did you think of the roofer while your family was sheltered from the storm? How about the framer, the drywall guy, the painter or glazer? You know who I am talking about, those who actually bleed for their art. People who put their health and lives on the line to bring you the World you take for granted. A properly hung door is a life saver, so is that mass produced frozen pizza, the farm grown produce, and the many other products we little people spend our lives creating for little pay. Now tell me about moral implications.
What I am saying Mr Big Shot Mukety Muck, you have the easy life. You should be counting your blessings instead of trying to make people feel guilty because you feel cheated and your greed knows no bounds. Do the proper research for your next film, pay into the right distribution channels and maybe one day you too will be a star. If you succeed, do try to be gracious and don't nit pick about how we acquire our first copy. For now, just be happy that you will be collecting residuals from the reruns of this mediocre hate mongering piece of trash.

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I agree with your post.
Also what many people forget :
I understand downloading is illegal , .. in the USA.
However, in most of the world it is perfectly LEGAL to download.
Also where I live (in Europe).
And movietheaters, netflix, etc. are flourishing like never before, over here

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You are not selling a copy of the movie.
You are selling a license to watch it in the privacy of one's home while following a very strict list of rules and regulations.

Had you been selling copies of the movie there would be nothing for you to complain about. Well... actually there would be, but mostly for you.
You sell a copy to someone, that someone now owns a copy of the movie - along with all possible rights.

You know... like if you were selling a car. Customer can do whatever they please with that car once they fork over the money.
Including disassembling it and copying the parts.
Might get into some patent infringement should they try to do that on a industrial scale, but hey... couple of years down the road that patent will run out anyway.
So customer is free to start copying the latest Mercedes today to have it mass produced 30 years down the road. Or even use it as an initial design for something that is not yet invented and/or patented.

Not so with copyright. That one is being pushed to last forever if in anyway possible.
I'll let you guess once who does the pushing.


And so, we get back to copyright infringement and NOT stealing, piracy, larceny or whatever other augmentative term industry likes to use.
Personally, I find it akin to referring to lying as murder.
And since you and 99.9999% of industry representatives are lying about copyright infringement being stealing, piracy etc. - I hereby pronounce you all MURDERERS!

You sick, sick, sick, horrible, horrible, horrible genocidal maniac! I am disgusted by your very existence!

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"And here's a thought - if you really enjoyed this producer's film and want to support him, lay down the money to buy the DVD. "
and how would he knew whether he would like the movie if not from donwloads in the first place. i am of the opinion that we should be able to know what we are buying instead of going blind. i myself have acess to many dvds that come out, that way i get to watch them for free (friend works at dvd store/rental), however i do buy movies that i like, but only those movies. if i were not be able to acess these movies i would have put my passion somewhere else, which would mean i bought even less movies, which makes your loss of profit negative. illegal downloads are a great place of advertisement. the sooner industry gets their heads out of their asses and realize we are no longer living in 1950 the better.
they clearly cant see the light still as they try to push laws like people paying tax to music artist when buying empty USBs because they "possibly" can put thier music in it. whats up with that?

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"Common sense is not so common."
- Voltaire

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i am of the opinion that we should be able to know what we are buying instead of going blind.
Gee, that's why you have the option of renting movies or downloading them via pay-per-view, etc. I spent all of $1.99 to watch this on my Roku. It's on Amazon as Video on Demand. It's on Netflix. There are a dozen options for a low-cost view.

Since the producers and investors spent upwards of $15 million to make the movie, it's only common courtesy to lay out money to view it. I don't think a couple of bucks for two hours of entertainment for as many people as you can gather around your TV is too much.

People who are downloading without paying are just stealing...plain and simple.

I find it amusing that people are at once complaining that the movie didn't get a theatrical release, yet at the same time happily admitting that they didn't pay anything to watch it. Cause and effect. People downloading illegally and not paying means theater owners and people who invest their money in movies don't want to spend as much, distributors are cagey and not willing to take as many chances, and high-quality projects like this one get overlooked while Jackass 3D is hitting your local cinema...

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Barely Bathing Road Trip 2010 Aficionado

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thing is statistic shows that people who download movies actually buy mroe of them than others who dont. you donwload, you like, you buy. you dont donwload, you dont know, you dont buy.

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"Common sense is not so common."
- Voltaire

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I think you're misinterpreting that statistic. If someone is downloading films then it means that are more likely to be a film fan and have a more than average interest in films than the general public, therefore, they are more likely to go pay for a film at a later date, as they watch more films in general. Also, if I download something and like it, why would I buy it? I've already seen it and I know where I can see it again, so why would I pay for something I could get for free?

Anyone who thinks piracy is not stealing is just lying to themselves, but just because it is stealing doesn't mean people won't do it. Most people in the world would take something, that normally costs money, for free if there was a 99.99% chance of not getting caught. The only way to stop it is to punish the majority of people who do it, then people will be too scared of the punishment to do it. If you just rely on human's moral obligation to not steal then you're not going to solve anything.

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youd pay for something you like becasue you would want more stuff like this, and to reach that goal is to give money to the author (sure buying gives small percentage, but do you know a better way?) to support his work along, whereas buying blind supports movies that you may hate and want to never be done again. uwe boll comes to mind, there is phenomena to hate him yet everyone still go to his movies. so if youk eep on giving him money he wont stop making money.

most people in the world would pay for something given to them easily than get it for free the hard way. you cant blame bad marketing on piracy. piracy exist becasue of bad marketing. if you give people the ability to afford (some prices nowadays are ridiculous, whne did you heard somone to have to drive for an hour then walk another hour to be able to buy a movie for 100 dollars?). had they gave you opportunity to donwload this movie for 10 dollars im pretty sure they would have made more profit. biggest issue is not stealing. biggest issue is we have no choice really. there are many classic shows that are simply unavaiable for sell or you have to fly across half the globe to get it. if you want people to stop pirating at least give them a second option.

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"Common sense is not so common."
- Voltaire

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Yeah...I don't see what the big fuss is about previewing movies to see if you'll like them or not, using torrents or file-sharing programs, whatever it is.

In my lifetime, I've kept most of my movie tickets as part of a movie ticket collection, and I've spent over $17,000 on seeing movies in theaters (yes, I calculated it once), and I'm only 21. I saw around 1000 movies in theaters between 2002-2009, and was disappointed by about 90% of them. It's frustrating when you see what appears to be clips from a really cool movie in a trailer put out before the feature presentation or a commercial on television, and then go spend $10 to see it in theaters, only to fall asleep an hour into the movie and not be able to refund your ticket. Seriously, all the local theaters in my area only allow you to refund your ticket during the first 30 minutes of the film. How are you supposed to tell if it's going to be good or not based on those first 30 minutes? That's only Act 1, introducing the characters and the scenes.

With ticket prices these days for silver-screen movies over $10, I rarely go out to the movies any more, and there really haven't been any good movies worth paying to see since 2000. I usually just wait until an interesting movie gets paid to be released on Hulu so I watch with commercials. I don't actually sit down and watch television anymore, most of the shows suck. The Bourne series and Avatar are a few I made exceptions for in terms of movies beyond 2000, and went to go pay and see them...but really, in my opinion, a lot of them are rehashed ideas.

The movies that are worth watching multiple times (and there's very few of them), I've probably spent about $50 each renting and re-renting them at the local movie-rental place, per movie.

TV shows are easier to watch over and over again, and I always buy those.

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Perfect argument;
perfect reply to the "poor" producer who sniffled that he/she was offended that people were finding ways to see this movie even though it's theatrical release collapsed and never offered theater-goers a chance to pay to see the movie.

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If you balance not buying it and downloading it - they are the same. Nothing physical is lost in downloading it, although there are minor arguments here and there that it's free advertising...

If we consider why I am looking at this movie right here and right now... because it's on a download list. I never heard about it until now. Neither do I go to cinemas (although that wouldn't have mattered here) neither would I just buy a DVD without knowing what is it about and I do worry sometimes when a movie goes straight to DVD, but I don't let this assumption

Some movies people download - they couldn't even buy if they tried - this is specially the case for people in other countries or foreign films.


This means, you shouldn't assume that everyone that downloads a movie would (or could) have bought it in the first place.



Release your movies online, for a small fee... get around all the DVD production, distribution, retailing that takes more of a cut from the movie than a few downloaders ever will.




-------------------------
How does Godwin's Law apply in an ACTUAL Nazi/Hitler argument?

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Maybe by US laws, it's stealing, but not by Canadian. Personally, I wouldn't call it theft, because they're not stamping their name on it to make money, and in Canada, it's ok to download virtually anything (excluding child porn, thank god that's still illegal) as long as you use the virtual item for personal use (so, for you to watch it, and not distribute it on the market or sell it to anyone out of your home or trunk). If you want to make ammends to anyone, blame the Chinese, they have shops setup all over one mall where they sell pirated DVD's for 2 bucks, and it's cam quality. So, not only are they ripping you, the hard working film crew, but also the people who them.

And whoever said that downloading may get you more sales, is half true and half wrong, the more people like it, the more word of mouth will get around, the more people hate it, the more no one will say a thing.

And to answer you question, I LOVED it. I did download it via direct download, no watermarks or anything, dvd quality. The scene at the end where Carrie Ann Moss walks out with the kids is where it started to get a little wierd. It would slightly repeat itself till the end credits by like a milisecond. It played the whole ending, but it had repeats. Now, I'm thinking that was done on purpose in the editing room to make it look like a clock was ticking (yeah, the ticking effect editing, I just made that up, full credit for me!) and it would do that especially when the camera panned to the hidden bomb. If that's your editing team, then that's pretty brilliant, if it's not, then that explains that the release was an error.


What I think of the movie you ask? It was great, the acting was SUPERB on all the three main actors. The plot was very well written and I honestly think you wouldn't get away with half the stuff in the movie if you were to put it in theaters. I bet you any money the studio would want to cut that out after the test audience is disgusted by the gore and tone because they are sensitive degenerates. I for one agree with H and his torture methods. I was thinking the exact same thing he was when he brought the wife and kids to the torture room. It's realistic, and if the terrorist is a family man, then that's his weakness. I honestly spoke out loud at the scene with the kids "now, will you still sacrifice your kids for your great god, Allah?". I kept wondering how far he was willing to go to see that those bombs blow up, but his true weakness was his kids. Innocence truly can break a man. I will spread the word about this film to my friends and my college professor who actually was debating whether the CIA and their torture methods are right for situations like these, and I truly believe they are. Being soft on a terrorist with intentions of blowing up cities is not the answer. You just can't have sensitive people in tight situations like of this movies plot. Man up and finish the job. Would you rather sacrifice two kids or a few hundred, thousand, million? That's one of the questions people should consider.


Why the score is a 7.2 just boggles my mind, this should be at least a 9.0/10 and in the top 10 on the top 250 list. But people are sensitive degenerates who would rather let terrorists over-run their world because of the moral issue in the movie. Anyways, looking forward to your reply. Great movie, I hope there are many more like this. This is very original and I mean that from the heart. Who would think a Caucasian, AMERICAN born and bred could suddenly defect to being an extreme Muslim terrorist?

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I'm not going to join in on whether or not downloading is theft. However, I do have a question:

Leaving Las Vegas was based on a book written by an Indian author about 100 years ago. There's even a Bollywood film of it.

Yet, there's no mention of the original anywhere in the Hollywood version.

Would you consider that theft?

I mean, at least mention that it's based on the original.

If that's not theft, then I guess I would have to join in the discussion and say I don't think piracy is theft.

Other wise...

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[deleted]

If I steal your phone, you will have lost your phone.
I watched your movie, what have you lost? I go to movies, I buy some DVDs. But if I had to pay for all the movies I've seen, I would barely have seen any. And I wouldn't have seen this one either.

So to sum up:
Stealing is taking away an item belonging to you, so as you will have lost it.
Torrenting a movie is.. Yeah it's file-sharing. I agree it makes it sound "milder" than it is, but it is a hell of a lot more accurate than stealing.


As a side note, a lot of the war on torrenting is *beep* There have been funded plenty of movies through crowdfunding, people only paying what they feel it's worth (largest yet might be Veronica Mars set to be released in 2014). There are games being developped, released free of charge, surviving by people's donations. I get it, it may not be the optimal solution in all circumstances, and it would create a series of problems if all movies were to be funded this way, but it's all about supply and demand. If a grocery store has to shut down because of a large department store's cheaper prices, no one's going to force them to increase it to help their competitors. What's special about you?

Imagine if you had to pay for going on wikipedia before searching for anything. Would you use it then? Probably not. Most people wouldn't. It's not a viable business model. It might have been 10, 15 years ago, but not today. So they find other ways to raise capital. Sometimes, through donations, which seems to work.

Technology is changing through time, it forces all industries to adapt, not just Hollywood. So quit your pseudo-victimisation already. Yeah, the movie and music business is being hit hard by this particular evolution of technology. But you know what? Other developments hit other industries harder than the movie industry, and you know what happens? NOTHING, they're forced to adapt or get the hell off the market. Why is it different here? Because the movie biz has money to prosecute?
Well, good *beep* job.

Regards.

P.S. I enjoyed the movie. Reading through some comments here on iMDB it seems I find it odd that some people question how realistic it is. If I naturally scrutinized all movies I watch, I don't think I'd enjoy most of them. Sure, if this happened in real life, it might turn out differently. But that's a conditition for most movies, isn't it? That a particular set of events happen, maybe not the most likely to happen, but they do, and that is what's interesting. One person said the main character's behavior aren't 'normal'. But what is normal, and how do you know what normal is, when it comes to a life or death situation of millions of people?

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"I'm glad that I downloaded it because your movie sucked. Sorry man."

LOL!

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I have seen that there is a warez-bb thread about this movie where you can find some links to rapidshare.

Anyway, I enjoyed this movie very much. I like that it is not very subjective. I would have enjoyed to see this in the cinema and especially how the US people would have reacted on it.

Also, not everybody in here come from the US.

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First, I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the investment of time.

No, for sure, not everyone here is from the US. Which makes me more curious too. I don't have good data on the non-US releases but I don't think it's been officially on the market anywhere.

How did you see it? (I'm not asking you to provide any essentially personal details or even where you got it, just how you saw it and what you saw). Was it a watermarked preview version or something else? What was the quality like?

As a producer this is a new world and I need to know as much as I can learn.

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Well, I might have got it from the rapidshare links on warez-bb. - sorry :)

Pretty good quality, sometimes though (like 5-10 times) the colors dissapeared and it had some sort of text in the corner like "dx-141241242"

And yes, I personally believe that this is theft but not the "every download is a loss".

And Im still pretty sceptic about you being an actual producer, since my view of them are "Rich business guy who party and stuff in big houses"

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That last line made me laugh. I used to "party and stuff" but those days are long gone! Just another working stiff now in a business that's fascinating and involving and challenging and rewarding (when I get paid).

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I'm late on this thread, but I wanted to say I saw your film, and I enjoyed it. I pirated it.

It's great that you take time to interact with people. I don't like to congratulate people on the obvious or status quo, but I'm happy that you are not arrogant or pretensious about communing with people in a forum like this or trying to understand people who you might not share interests (except film, your profession) or principles with. You might not be in agreement about profit margins and copyright, but we all love film.

Also, you mentioned that the scr on the net had a temp score. I wonder if I would be inclined to think upon comparing this to a theatrical release that the final scored version had a lot of unnecessary phrases. Music always the first thing I notice and the last thing I miss, and I didn't feel anything was missing from the version circulating on the net, musically. I'm not producing the film and don't know what you have in mind, but I thought it was fine. Would it be more dramatic?

My first reaction at the end of the film was that it was a well honed production with regard to balance of substance and all the things people feel they need to add to make things stimulating, esp. visually. There wasn't anything extraneous.

What I thought it lacked, was consistent intensity in certain places, but this is an intense film, and I'm hard to please. So, I recognize the challenge for you and the cast, crew.

I still have the question regarding the alternate ending. Can anyone answer? What influenced the choice of a certain ending in the U.S. release?


You had me at 'Heil.'

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There are so many versions on the net now that I don't know what version you saw or whether the score was Graham Revell's final version.

There were a lot of reasons that we went with a more ambiguous ending. The "countdown" ending seemed to suggest to some that since the fourth bomb clearly existed, Brody was a pussy for not having agreed to go get the kids, and therefore the film was an advocate for torture, which no-one was comfortable with. Sam, Gregor and I simply preferred a less obvious close.

The ending I wanted, which we never shot, had H on the steps watching Brody walk off with the two kids, talking to Charlie, saying whether there's a fourth bomb or not this time, the time will come again when there's a bomb, and he'll do again what he's trained to do, evil as it is, but he might come up against the limits of his own humanity.

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"The ending I wanted, which we never shot, had H on the steps watching Brody walk off with the two kids, talking to Charlie, saying whether there's a fourth bomb or not this time, the time will come again when there's a bomb, and he'll do again what he's trained to do, evil as it is, but he might come up against the limits of his own humanity."


I really like that, how much control do you have over such things?


VOTE 10/10 FOR THIS MASTERPIECE
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0490668/

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Depends on the movie and the people I'm working with. There's no rule to it.

This particular picture was pretty messed up by the end of its process, with a company going bust and a lot of tension around that. Not pretty.

Too bad, too, because the movie and the people who worked so hard on it deserve better than a straight-to-DVD release.

Thanks for your support. Much appreciated, really, after everything that's happened.

Cotty

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IO has an on demand aspect on their cable telivision, me and my friends ordered it for 5 dollars last night, and enjoyed it! We kept guessing about whether he had the bombs and what not, very entertaining

the truth is we can't all be stars, but I'll be god damned if I'll settle for bronze....

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It's probably safe to say the majority of people saw the bootleg copy. That's how internet forums based on digital media such as games and movies usually operate - people download movies and games and then log on to their favorite soap box immediately after it's done to either rave about it or complain about it. I enjoyed it immensely, I thought it was 2010's best film of the year. It was recommended to me by my friends and I recommended my other friends to see it to tell me what they though.

That's the real brilliance behind films like yours. It challenges people to really rethink their thought patterns. I've read some statements here like "well I'm a liberal I would never harm children but if it came down to it I would allow myself to let someone else harm the children." Those kinds of paradigm shifts help you process your own morals and objectives and find out things about yourself you never knew before.

However, I would tell you that I don't believe your movie will be able to make it's money back, at least not at first. I don't know how much Samuel L Jackson and Catherine Anne Moss were paid, but I can imagine it wasn't low. Unfortunately it might end up as Taxi to the Dark Side, a great movie that nobody knows about because of weak promoting. The "straight to DVD" label is a basically a death sentence for films.

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Thanks for the support. We would have had a strong theatrical release but for the collapse of Senator Entertainment, which was supposed to pay for the distribution costs (they stiffed me on a good portion of my fee as well). Sometimes movies just get screwed.

I think if we'd been able to secure a strong release, the picture would have done well. (Partly because we had a better, more satisfying ending ready to shoot but didn't have the money when the company went down.)

Without that theatrical release, though, and with the decimation of the DVD market at least in part through "free" downloads, everyone is going to lose money on the picture, which is depressing because it only makes it harder getting entertaining but complex movies made today.

If you want to read my analysis of the state of things, go search on Huffington Post for the phrase "Make It Tasty".

Again, I'm glad you liked the picture. One of the goals we had was to put a picture out that made the right scream "it's left wing" and the left say "it's pro torture." It's neither.

The real question isn't whether there's another bomb -- there's always going to be another bomb -- it's what's the price we'll pay as a people, and as individuals, to keep them from going off.

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Oh now you know I have to ask "what was the original ending?"

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In fact, as often happens, the best ending emerged after the first preview, when there was a chance to see what the movie felt like when it played. What's out on the torrents is that first cut, so far as I can tell.

But after the preview there was a lot of fussing and feuding about the right way to end the movie, and then the money ran out before the best ending could be shot.

There's what I personally think is a half-baked ending tagged onto the version that will come out in non-US markets, but how that got there is a story too long and ugly to tell in a public forum.

It's kinda too bad that people are watching the first preview cut, without Graeme Revell's great score and without the trims and cuts that improved the pacing and without the slightly better ending (if not the hoped-for best ending) that the US DVD will have, but wishing that weren't so is like wishing the tide wouldn't come in, I guess.

In the meantime I'll take some pride in the spectacular attention and the generally good ratings that the picture is getting. I like reading the comment board and the passionate attacks and defenses. Far better that than being ignored!

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"It's kinda too bad that people are watching the first preview cut, without Graeme Revell's great score and without the trims and cuts that improved the pacing and without the slightly better ending (if not the hoped-for best ending) that the US DVD will have, but wishing that weren't so is like wishing the tide wouldn't come in, I guess."


Well I watched an HD copy, so I guess it's the one that has everything you said in this quote.

I'll definitely buy the BluRay and even watch it on the theater if it ever gets released in my country.

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Can you tell me what the ending was on your copy?

I'll be vague about the choice for people who haven't seen it: did it end outside on the steps of the school or was there another sequence after that?

There are two versions that got made, part of the very screwed-up situation that the movie found itself in. I'm curious to know what people are seeing.

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[deleted]

I just saw this on my DVR. Its on pay cable stations now. I remember her walking out with kids, and screen goes black.

What other endings are there? Ill be honest, I was kind of pissed at the ending. I think its lazy to end a movie that way, but thats me. I dont know whether or not I enjoyed it, and I definitely of the mind that I will do whatever it takes to save millions of lives. Im not a fan of torture, but Im not a fan of someone putting a bomb where it might blow me up when I havent done anything.

That was a bit of a tangent, I was just hoping you could tell me the different endings that were shot.

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Can any one tell me how to put the RED "spoiler" lines on top of something I've posted , like the post previous to this one ??

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It's done using the spoiler tags. Place a "(spoiler)" at the beginning of the part of the text and a "(/spoiler)" at the end*. The part between will automatically be converted to the spoiler warning and only be visible once the mouse is hovering above.

Example:
"I liked the part where (spoiler)Mr. X killed everyone(/spoiler). That was fun."
(if used with the correct brackets*) turns into:
"I liked the part where Mr. X killed everyone. That was fun."

---
*) Use "[" and "]" in place of "(" and ")". I can't write them this way here, because then the text would automatically be converted and no longer visible ;)
Also the " are not part of the tag, use just the brackets and the text inside.

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Thanks a lot thebigone0305 !

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I'd love to see this movie. Like some others, I screen movies from torrent sites if I'm unsure about them or sometimes haven't heard about them. I typically watch the first 15 mins or so and they are usually kids movies.

I have 4 kids and that's a damn boatload of cash to go see something and if it sucks, I get pretty pissed off.

My ISP slapped me down for downloading and watching 15 minutes of this even while using a peer blocker so I don't know now.

I WANT TO SEE THIS MOVIE NOW!!

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"-- believe me, I've made movies no-one cared about! --"

Don't worry, I believe you.

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Hey Im glad to see someone that worked on the production of the movie.
Ive just finished your movie and I liked it very very much. That was entirely suspenseful, exciting and thrilling. I cant find any other words to describe. Direction, writing, score were wonderful. And especially the acting by Carrie-Anne Moss, Samuel L. Jackson and Michael Sheen were amazing.
Congratulations on the work! Ill definitely buy the blu-ray when it comes out.
And I would be really happy If you gave me some unknown information about Ms. Moss' work on set.
I can describe myself as 'the biggest fan of hers' but I dont want you to get my feelings about the movie wrong. If Carrie-Anne Moss didnt star in the movie I would also like it. But this movie was a real opportunity for Carrie-Anne Moss again to show the world how perfect she acts -after her work on Love Hurts, Normal, Fido, Snow Cake, Pretty/Handsome, Fireflies in the Garden, Memento, The Matrix Series, Mini's First Time and surprisingly New Blood (cause that wasnt a popular one). I believe she chose the role because Agent Helen Brody's character was too close to hers. I cant tell how much I love her and her work. You can just see my past posts on Imdb.
Please tell me everything that you know about her, I beg of you. You can post me on imdb or you can mail me. I would really like to chat If I wont disturb. Please I really need this. I love her very much. She's very precious for me. I cant say much cause I am so excited right now.

Sorry about my english

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did you find out who leaked the movie to the torrents?

==
Nobody gets deported today.

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Are you gonna go all Hurt Locker on us? That would be unthinkable... get it? hehe

I wasn't going to post anything but if you are really a producer. I throw my hat off to you good sir. I loved the movie on a deeper level which may not be realized by many but it was very thought provoking. It's rare to see movies that push the envelope. I welcome movies that try to challenge my core beliefs and they are certainly more entertaining to me than your typical big budget blockbuster with no substance and polished happy endings. While I appreciate that some people like to see unrealistic endings because we like to escape from the real world when we're engrossed in a movie, we can't always get what we want and that is a lesson that we need to learn sometimes.

To be more specific. This movie is good because it puts the viewer in somewhat of a lose lose situation. You are bad guy if you approve of the methods used[the at all cost mentality] and you're ignorant if you don't[willingness to sacrifice the lives of others to make yourself feel better about yourself]. Unfortunately, movies like these are double edged swords since they can serve to offend those who take themselves too seriously. Luckily for me, I am one of those who can appreciate the movie because I can be objective about it and thus I am able to put myself in the middle of the dilemma rather than on one of the polarizing sides trying to tell the otherside they're wrong. Gray areas rarely have absolute right or wrongs, you just gotta navigate through it... try to understand all the angles. Because at my core, I couldn't do the things portrayed in this movie nor could I condone such actions but at the same time, I understand it and it would not be my place to get in the way if I were placed in the scenario. Ignorance is bliss as they say it.

Anyway, I have no idea nor have I read about the production problems or whatever behind it but if ever I see the blu-ray on sale, I would definitely buy it. Sometimes I just have to screen it first because more often than not, movies do turn out to be crap these days. It isn't about theft... just as you would pay after the taxi driver takes you to your destination or you pay after you eat your meal at a restaurant, if in the end you are not where you need to be or got served what you ordered, then certainly you should not paying for it. So I'll leave it at that.

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Answers:
Yes, I did torrent it.
The version that I got said it was a Blu-Ray rip. No way to truly determine if it was; however, it looked flawless and was as clean as a master Blu-Ray DVD.
Sound is 5.1
No watermark.
Score seems intact (in fact, it was excellent).

As an aside, I buy my films, without exception. The exception being, in this case, that I've been out of work for over a year and might even be homeless in a few weeks. And I'm a film fanatic, so, yes, right now I'm downloading movies. Not proud of it, it's just the way it is right now. When I have money again, I will absolutely purchase the film. Granted, I'm probably in the torrenting community minority.

Question:
It was IMPOSSIBLE for you to find another distributor? With this cast, plot and production values? That seems... strange... to me.

Morals question:
I'm so old, I go back to reel-to-reel tape decks (then cassette, Beta, VHS, etc, etc). For as long as there has been a home recording device, people have shared media. I've taped stuff for people from my masters and I've borrowed masters from others to tape, for several decades. And, no doubt, those copies got copied, and copied and...
My question to you is this: you've NEVER gotten a copied cassette/CD and listened to the music (or burned one of your own from a borrowed CD)? Never gotten a "mix-tape" of music? You've NEVER borrowed a DVD from someone and watched it (particularly something that, upon viewing, you'd never buy yourself)? Or loaned a DVD or CD to someone? Never purchased a bootleg live album of a favorite band? And if you did any of these things, did you make sure and pop a check in the mail to the original creator to compensate them?

Now, if your answer is, "I've never done any of these things," or, "Yes, I always sent the original creator some money to compensate them for what I viewed/listened to," then I'd say you have the absolute moral high ground. Otherwise... wouldn't you say that you've been a pirate as well? The scale is immensely different in the digital world, I freely admit, but piracy is piracy... yes?

"I'm making my lunch!" - Cousin Dell

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@Chuckles-3, thanks for your thoughtful and supportive post. Sure, I've listened to mixtapes, and made them. Borrowed CDs and DVDs, of course, and lent them too. But those activities are protected and legal under first-use laws, because I bought the CD or DVD originally or my friend did.

I have a few songs that I took off LimeWire but only because I couldn't find them where they could be bought (this was maybe four or five years ago before pretty much even obscure New Orleans one-hit wonders can be found commercially on line).

And I listen to live recordings all the time, and torrent them, but only from dimeadozen or other music sites that forbid copyrighted performances and uploads of bands who don't want fan trading.

But you're right, I've probably snagged a couple of things in my life that I should have paid for and piracy is piracy.

In the present instance people are "sharing" work that's never been bought. That's clearly not right.

And yet, and yet, there's no way that a film about to be released straight to video gets to #3 on IMDB with all the attention that's being paid, so the pirates giveth as well as taketh away.

I just hope SONY sells the hell out of the title when it drops on the 15th, despite the downloads. The picture wouldn't have been made without their investment. I'd hate to see them lose it.

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Mate, why dont you put it on a site with a paypal donations button if you cant find a distributor, I watched a DVD quality version, liked the film, id send you some cash for the experience right now if I could.

oh and about the ending, the one I saw they all go find and disable the bombs, then the camera pans away too, ooh, another bomb, then credits roll.

I suspect that might be the bad ending, not that it mattered all that much, I think all the movies points had been made before that so anything at the end would be fine.

Overall original and interesting movie.

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Yeah that's's the ending that's going out internationally and on US television (I think) and will be a DVD extra, but isn't the ending that will be on the cut that's presented as the finished movie on the DVD. Long ugly story there, as you might imagine, which I'm disinclined to tell publicly.

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Just watched a DVD quality vers, with the 4th bomb ending, which was kinda meh. But great movie though, and I didn't have to download the movie, I watched it streaming.

Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid.

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I never said file-sharing is right. I agree with you that it isn't. But the genie is out of that particular bottle. Before my currents woes, I also only used torrenting for acquiring the impossible-to-get-otherwise.

I'm curious: why isn't there an "official" website? I can't believe the cost is that extreme and if you have a great team working on it, we both know it would generate quite a buzz (although it's a bit late at this point).

Trailers in theaters? I have no idea of the legality/issues of having trailers for direct-to-disc releases, but again, isn't that a cost-effective method of generating strong word-of-mouth buzz?

Ah well, these are pretty much cart-before-the-horse suggestions at this point. And I assume that it's been up to Sony to do the pre-release promoting. I have no idea: do the producers have any input on promotion?

BTW: I tried searching for your article at Huffington Post, no luck (unless it was about growing organic roses). I would like to read it. (update: I stand corrected, I did locate it. Well written article; if I make comments, I'll do it there))

Final BTW: the BR edition is ranked #280 overall in the "Movies & TV" section of the Amazon Bestsellers list (#36 in Thrillers sub-category (#49 for standard DVD)) Not terribly bad for a film nobody's heard about. :)

Best of luck on getting some $$$ back on the film, you guys deserve it. As I said previously, you'll get mine as soon as I can afford it. Best wishes.

"I'm making my lunch!" - Cousin Dell

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Sony should have released this movie.It could have gotten a lot of awards: The actors really carried this movie. It was a moral movie which left the choice to the viewer. Its not a hollywood(no crazy special effects, over dramatic and such...) movie which is great. Everybody who I recommended it to said it was a great movie too. I plan on buying DVD when it comes out.

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But those activities are protected and legal under first-use laws, because I bought the CD or DVD originally or my friend did.

Here's some food for thought on the concept of 'theft.'

Over the years - at least twice now in my lifetime - hollywood lobbyists have convinced the US congress to retroactively extend the term of copyright. In other words, works of art that were created and published under very explicit terms regarding the point in time which the works would become public domain were 'stolen' from the public. If those creators or copyright owners didn't want their work to become public domain, they should not have agreed to the terms of the copyright social contract by publishing in the first place.

In essence, those retroactive copyright extensions have stolen millions of works of art from each and every citizen of the USA. Including you.

Sony, like just about all major publishers in the USA, is therefore a thief on a scale that dwarfs anything internet piracy could ever amount to - even if every single person in the country were to pirate every single movie they watch and song they listen to, it still wouldn't come close.

Therefore, except in the rare cases of a handful of indie publishers, there is no moral high-ground with respect to piracy, terms like 'theft' and even 'piracy' itself are loaded words that people frequently use to claim that non-existent high-ground.

As someone who has earned every cent since college by selling my creative output in one form or another - but never relying on copyright to do so - I think the internet and piracy highlight just how broken the idea of copyright is.

Business models need to change - capitalism is fundamentally about managing scarce resources, but the internet makes copies of creative works infinitely plentiful. Copyright has become an attempt to create artificial scarcity so that the tenets of capitalism can still be applied. But copyright is merely a law of man and, unlike the inherent scarcity of labor and physical items, is easily ignored by other men. I would even go so far as to say copyright is inherently in contradiction with basic human nature. You don't like the term 'file sharing' but sharing of information is what has elevated modern society from the hunter-gatherer level. Unlike real crimes like theft and murder, just about everybody likes to share cool stuff and laws that oppose basic human nature have uniformly been expensive failures (prohibition, illegal immigration, the war on some drugs, prostitution, miscegenation, etc).

Production of creative works needs to move to a business model that sells naturally scarce resources like labor and physical products. One example is the 'ransom model' (google it) in recent months there have been some pretty amazing successes with the ransom model in the video game world. But there are plenty of other options - like the subscription model (which is practically the same as current cabletv/magazine/netflix business models). Or the donation model (which I am not a big fan of because it goes against human nature of being selfish) which seems to have worked well in a few big-name cases like radiohead and nine-inch-nails and looks to be doing OK for the producer of the movie "Sita Sings the Blues" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1172203/ who is combining it with a merchandising business model.

PS - I know Dekom well, he's one of the few members of the hollywood 'old-guard' who understands in both his gut as well as his brain that the world has changed and that the business needs to change with it or die. It's unfortunate that he wasn't successful with his own start-up attempting to have a go at bringing those changes about.

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Thanks for being honest and asking the public how we feel.

Firstly, I thought your Movie was fantastic. It looked at first it was going to be a run of the Mill (is that also a US saying, I am from the UK)lets chase all over the Country and find the bombs before it is too late. But no, it challenged my thinking, made me squirm, had so many twists and turns and a mind blowing ending. Michael Sheen was as usual, devastating. Sam jackson, as cool as they get.It is in my top 2 films of the year, along with Shutter Island. Thankyou, and a shame it never made it to the Theatres. Thought that might have been for Political reasons, rather than some screw up etc.

The not so good news, no I have no qualm with the film being available on Torrentz.
1. Your end stuffed up and it never made it on Cinema Release. Maybe that is a price that is paid.
2. The prices of Cinema tickets in UK are near £10!! To me, that is the Cinema industry, stealing from us!
3. Whilst we are all going thru a terrible Recession and suffering badly (I personally have lost my employment in IT, with a young family,it is impossible to feel sorry for actors, producers, etc who earn vast fortunes and charge ridiculous Ticket prices. Fatcatting and taking the Michael, me thinks???
4. I am sure the Movie Industry is quite happy to enjoy all the promo stuff and increased finance, that using the Internet brings to a film, but cannot handle the negative side to the Net. Sorry, but the Industry needs to wake up to the reality of the Net and try and embrace and work with it rather than grab what it can and hate it when people grab back.

Apologies if I have gone one, but I feel, as alot of people seem to, that The Movie and Music industry have more to answer to than some people who download from what was originally intended to be a FREE media for people to use, until big business got on board.

Regards

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@istrover1, since you started by praising the picture, you almost had me, until the last sentence.

"what was originally intended to be a FREE media for people to use, until big business got on board."

It's not free to use if you're paying for bandwidth. The only thing free about it is the content, and in the case of professionally made films, they're only free if they're stolen.

You can make the argument that tickets cost too much for what you get (I agree, for the most part), or that actors get paid a lot (again, I agree, though they're being paid a lot less now than was common even two years ago).

And let me tell you, I did not make "a vast fortune" on this movie. Or anything like it (even without counting the money that I got stiffed from my fee when the company went broke).

You can even make the argument that there's a benefit to the financiers from the attention that's generated (almost certainly true in this case). That's why some companies are releasing their material openly first.

But you don't convince me when you assert a right to steal because you're aggrieved or out of work. These times are increasingly Dickensian, true, but that doesn't justify.

It's not convincing that in some mysterious fashion, everything is supposed to be free on the internet, when ain't no place in the world anything's free except maybe the air you breathe.

If companies can't get a return on their investment, not surprisingly they stop making that particular investment.

When the economic basis for making movies breaks down, as it's doing, the people who really suffer are the people who work on them, like the seventy people on the crew of Unthinkable who made decent wages for eight or twelve weeks of prep and shoot and got their health care costs covered (not a problem in the UK, but here very much one).

I'm proud that I could create that opportunity to work for those folks and the many more in editing and sound mixing and tape transfer and the like. If I can't produce movies, they lose their livelihood.

But regardless of how you saw the picture, I'm really glad you did see it and really pleased you liked it.

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Really appreciated your swift reply. May be I was on too much of a rant. Apologies if it came accross as personal, it certainly wasn't intended to be.Just have a bee in my bonnet, that the Movie Industry (not this film)try and twist every penny out of the paying public, thru ticket prices, merchandise etc but are very indignant when something is twisted out of it.

Your openness in this forum, and the impact your Film has had on me, have certainly given me food for thought and I will go away and look again at things.

Regards

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I really enjoyed this film and must congratulate all the writers and production team. Samuel L Jackson was superb as always. Its just such a shame that this wasnt released in cinema as its definently one of my favourite movies of the year so far. It touched on some very sensitive issues and really pulled in the audience into questioning their morals.

Fantasic film and im now very interested in waiting to see the other alternative ending now. Thanks

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