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Mike's complaint about Walt in "Say My Name" doesn't make sense

posted 10 years ago by GuyOnTheLeft
158 replies | jump to latest

Here's what Mike said to Walt:

We had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch! We had Fring. We had a lab. We had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork. You could've shut your mouth, cooked and made as much money as you ever needed. It was perfect. But, no, you just had to blow it up. You and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man. If you'd done your job, known your place, we'd all be fine right now.

But this is not what "blew it up", and Mike knows that, or should know it. Walt was perfectly happy to stay in his lane, keep cooking, keep rolling in the money, and not make waves. But Jesse was out for revenge against those drug dealers that used Tomas to kill Combo. He tried to enlist Walt's help, but as I say, Walt did not want to rock the boat. Instead, Walt went to Gus to set up a meeting to try to de-escalate the situation.

But then they killed Tomas, and Jesse's desire for vengeance burned even hotter. Walt knew this, and so when Jesse was about to get himself killed trying to take them on, Walt came barrelling in and ran them over, and shot them. This selfless act of saving Jesse is what set in motion all the events that destroyed Gus's operation. (I'm not arguing for Walt being a good guy--he did lots of terrible things--but this was not among them.) Gus decided because of this to kill Walt as soon as Gale mastered the cook, which then meant Walt had to start going into self-preservation mode, and that all led ultimately to Gus's downfall ("I won").

So, okay: maybe at the time this happened, Mike felt Walt should have just let Jesse get what was coming to him and stay out of it. But between that time and the time Mike gave Walt this speech, Mike and Jesse had become very close, almost like father and son. So Mike is saying Walt shouldn't have saved his dear surrogate son Jesse? Or he should have saved him, and then meekly let Mike kill Walt (when he came to get him under the ruse of "a chemical leak" at the lab)?

Whatever the case, what was the scenario in which "we'd all be fine right now"? I've got to assume that "we" included Mike, Walt, and Jesse at least. And I don't see it. If anything, Mike should be delivering this lecture to Jesse, as Jesse backing down from taking on the drug dealers would have been the only way they all could have ended up being "fine".

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

Exactly! What Mike is really mad about is that Walt didn't just go down meekly but was resourceful and able to fight back and outfox Gus.

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[–] bambinoson12 9 years ago

There was a brief time, late in season 3, when Jesse was the insubordinate "time bomb" who needed to be rescued. However, after everything that transpired during season 4, and in the heat of an argument with a guy he clearly doesn't like, does anyone expect Mike to remember exactly how things initially went wrong with the operation? Jesse saved Mike's life, and Gus, when he could have easily let them both die. This earned him Mike's full respect and friendship.

It's reasonable to say that Mike was not being fair to Walter but most people are biased against those they dislike. Mike was mostly just upset that Walter "won" and vented his frustration at the man he held responsible for ruining the Fring empire. It was because of Walter that Mike lost Gus, the money for Kaley, his freedom, etc. Jesse being the catalyst for the Gus vs Walter feud was long forgotten by Mike when he made this angry comment. That being said, Mike didn't deserve to die at the hands of Walter for a personal insult. Season 5 Walt was irredeemable. VG should have take WW all the way to hell by having Walt kill Pinkman after slaughtering the Nazis. Final scene could have been Walt cackling like a madman before succumbing to the bullet wound.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

That's a pretty big detail to forget IMO.

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[–] bambinoson12 9 years ago

The writers of Breaking Bad didn't screw up. It's a big detail but one Mike's character would have forgotten (willfully?) based on his good relationship with Pinkman and personal bias against Walter. Mike was not typically an emotional thinker but I believe this case to be a rare exception based on his angry rant.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

I think you said it right in your post: Mike was not typically an emotional thinker. So that's why I do think it was a mistake, either in the writers' logic, memory for how things played out, or consistent characterization of Mike.

Keep in mind I do still think this is the best scripted drama series of all time.

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[–] bambinoson12 9 years ago

I re-watched the scene and have to admit there is something odd about it. I don't think the writers made a "mistake" but I do think they were manufacturing a scenario to make Walter look like a psycho. They needed Mike to get angry with Walt over something that led to Walt getting enraged and then impulsively shoot Mike. I think VG wanted Walt to cross a line from strategic murderer to cold blooded psycho killer. In reality, Walt should have been killing Mike as precautionary strategy but VG also took this out of the equation to make Walt look like more of a villain. It's very likely that Mike would have retaliated if Walt got the names from Lydia and had the Nazis kill Mike's men.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

Good points.

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[–] Shadowkisss 9 years ago

That being said, Mike didn't deserve to die at the hands of Walter for a personal insult.

I liked Mike, and when Walter shot him I was a little mad at Walter, but I don't think he shot him simply because of a personal insult, he was angry because Mike refused to give him the names. Let's be honest, Mike was being an ass and he pretty much brought this upon himself. What was Walter supposed to do considering Mike and his lawyers got caught paying those guys, and they were constantly on the verge of talking? (remember that Walter thinks of Lydia only after shooting Mike).

[–] bambinoson12 9 years ago

I just think the murder had to be due mostly to rage due to the personal insult because Walt would have come up with a better plan than to kill the only man with the information he needed (he forgot about Lydia) to protect his identity. He could have threatened to kill Mike's granddaughter (similar to Gus) to keep him in line and collect the info. Walt killing Mike right then and there without even attempting a threat was a terrible strategic move.

[–] Shadowkisss 9 years ago

Of course it was not a strategic move, he was just angry and not thinking, it was the spur of the moment. And Mike also acted like an ass out of anger, he also wasn't thinking. In other words they both acted like dumbasses.

[–] bambinoson12 9 years ago

What I don't understand is why Walter wasn't planning on killing Mike? His honest line "I just remembered I can get the names from Lydia...I'm sorry Mike" implies he never considered taking out Mike as a necessary strategic move. But wasn't it? Jesse even mentions this later on when he questions Walt about what happened. If Walt had to get the names from Lydia and then took out Mike's guys, wouldn't he have to live in constant fear of retaliation? He needed to get the names from Mike because that was essentially getting the "OK" from Mike. I thought THAT was why he got so angry, and not because he thought Mike was his only option.

So when I first saw the scene I thought for sure that Walt decided to kill Mike as a strategic move, figuring Walt took the gun in anticipation of Mike's uncooperative response. But then the sincere apology/Lydia made it an unquestionable rage killing. That was slightly disappointing for me. Was VG just trying to take away Walt's justification for the murder by making him look like more of an impulsive psycho?

BB is still a near perfect show, with flawless dialogue like 99.1 percent of the time :)

[–] Shadowkisss 9 years ago

BB is still a near perfect show, with flawless dialogue like 99.1 percent of the time :)

Of course. Which doesn't mean that we can't have our ideas and preferences, just like the writers did. For example, I didn't like how it went in season 5b, but I can still understand the reasons for the scenario they chose, and the quality of these episodes, and of the whole show.

In my opinion Walter was not planning on killing Mike, for 3 reasons: he was not a cold blooded killer, he liked Mike (despite knowing that Mike didn't like him), and he knew Mike would never talk (to the police).

He might have taken the gun for 2 reasons: to protect himself (not with the intention of killing Mike, but rather simply by not handing it to him - after all Mike almost killed him in the episode where Jesse killed Gale), but also in case Mike refused to give him the names, to threaten him.

This said, I thought this scene was a bit surprising, for both characters. Considering how smart Walter is, he shouldn't have forgotten that Lydia had the names, and Mike (who of course hadn't forgotten that small detail) should have known better than not give him the names. My guess is that Mike also knew that Walter was not a cold blooded killer, and he didn't expect him to actually use the gun.

Also, eventho what you said makes sense, I really doubt Mike would have retaliated, at this point he knew they were on the verge of talking and that no money would ever be enough. Plus him and his lawyer got caught specifically because they were paying them, so I don't see how he could blame Walter for taking "the next step" to protect himself and his business. I think the reason MIke retaliated the first time was mainly because Lydia had ordered a hit on him too.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] silver_snail14 9 years ago

Mike was full of sh-t. I don't see why people consider him better than Walter. He maimed and killed people without feeling even a shred of guilt and was perfectly prepared to drag an unarmed woman out of her house and blow her brains out. The guy was nice to his granddaughter but he was still a huge prick. His code of honor was sketchy at best, considering how fickle his loyalties were. Walt shooting him was unnecessary but if I had to listen to this self-righteous loudmouth play Monday Morning Quarterback after everything we'd been through together I might have snapped too.

Just get me home, I'll do the rest.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

Good point! LOL

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[–] skllet98 9 years ago

He was venting about how Walter was incapable of keeping his head down and doing his job.

Every single thing that Walter did screwed them over in some way. Mike wasn't talking about any specific event (with the exception of killing Fring), he was angry because Walter was incapable of accepting his position and living with it.

So, okay: maybe at the time this happened, Mike felt Walt should have just let Jesse get what was coming to him and stay out of it. But between that time and the time Mike gave Walt this speech, Mike and Jesse had become very close, almost like father and son. So Mike is saying Walt shouldn't have saved his dear surrogate son Jesse? Or he should have saved him, and then meekly let Mike kill Walt (when he came to get him under the ruse of "a chemical leak" at the lab)?

I honestly don't think Gus and Mike would have dealt with Jesse all that harshly. They knew it was Jesse who wanted the drug dealers dead, and they knew why. Walter had no part to play in that. It was Walter's actions that proved he wouldn't let things go. Everything he did after that point was mostly born of his own paranoia. Which is slightly ironic, because Gus would absolutely have killed Walter BECAUSE of that paranoia. They knew Walter could never get out. His EGO wouldn't allow it. Which meant the only way they could get rid of him was to kill him, and he knew that, which made him even more paranoid.

I absolutely think Mike was saying that Walter should have let Jesse do what Jesse was going to do and it would have ultimately been fine for all of them. But Walter would never let things go.

Walter thinks too much.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

This is wrong in just about every way.

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[–] skllet98 9 years ago

Your debate skills are amazing. ~No One Ever

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

As you can see upthread, if I disagree with someone on a certain point or interpretation, I will engage them in specifics. But the post I was responding to was so wrong in so many facets that it would have required my writing a book to correct it all. Life is too short, sorry.

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[–] skllet98 9 years ago

Yeah, cognitive dissonance does crazy things to people...

[–] matrixflower 9 years ago

as Jesse backing down from taking on the drug dealers would have been the only way they all could have ended up being "fine".

Walt staying out of Jesse's business instead of running to and ratting Jesse out to Gus could have been a way things could have ended up 'fine'.

Matrixflower :)

[–] heisenberg12 9 years ago

They know what he meant. You can categorize it all you want, but Mike was speaking to Walt's ego. No matter how he placed it, the point was "blame". He was blaming Walt for the downfall, and it didn't matter how he did it, even though it made sense. Mike is human, and in his mind, he blamed walt for all the deconstruction, period. In Mike's POV, when Walt got involved, all of his years of hard work with Gus went down the drain, and that is all that needs to be known to understand his POV.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

Really? Jesse would have been fine in that scenario?

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[–] matrixflower 9 years ago

The optimum word here is 'could'.

And yes, Jesse's plan could have been more effective than Walt's inappropriate knee-jerk cockamamey reaction (as we saw from the results).

Matrixflower :)

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 9 years ago

No, Jesse definitely would have been killed.

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] RKOunionII 8 years ago

Bump