MovieChat Forums > Breaking Bad (2008) Discussion > Mike's complaint about Walt in "Say My N...

Mike's complaint about Walt in "Say My Name" doesn't make sense


Here's what Mike said to Walt:

We had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch! We had Fring. We had a lab. We had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork. You could've shut your mouth, cooked and made as much money as you ever needed. It was perfect. But, no, you just had to blow it up. You and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man. If you'd done your job, known your place, we'd all be fine right now.


But this is not what "blew it up", and Mike knows that, or should know it. Walt was perfectly happy to stay in his lane, keep cooking, keep rolling in the money, and not make waves. But Jesse was out for revenge against those drug dealers that used Tomas to kill Combo. He tried to enlist Walt's help, but as I say, Walt did not want to rock the boat. Instead, Walt went to Gus to set up a meeting to try to de-escalate the situation.

But then they killed Tomas, and Jesse's desire for vengeance burned even hotter. Walt knew this, and so when Jesse was about to get himself killed trying to take them on, Walt came barrelling in and ran them over, and shot them. This selfless act of saving Jesse is what set in motion all the events that destroyed Gus's operation. (I'm not arguing for Walt being a good guy--he did lots of terrible things--but this was not among them.) Gus decided because of this to kill Walt as soon as Gale mastered the cook, which then meant Walt had to start going into self-preservation mode, and that all led ultimately to Gus's downfall ("I won").

So, okay: maybe at the time this happened, Mike felt Walt should have just let Jesse get what was coming to him and stay out of it. But between that time and the time Mike gave Walt this speech, Mike and Jesse had become very close, almost like father and son. So Mike is saying Walt shouldn't have saved his dear surrogate son Jesse? Or he should have saved him, and then meekly let Mike kill Walt (when he came to get him under the ruse of "a chemical leak" at the lab)?

Whatever the case, what was the scenario in which "we'd all be fine right now"? I've got to assume that "we" included Mike, Walt, and Jesse at least. And I don't see it. If anything, Mike should be delivering this lecture to Jesse, as Jesse backing down from taking on the drug dealers would have been the only way they all could have ended up being "fine".

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[deleted]

Right, everyone always takes Mike's side in this, even though it doesn't add up. Even the Breaking Bad writers seem like they kind of lost track of how everything developed. (I still consider it the greatest show of all time, but it's not perfect.)

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Agreed.

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Wasn't he talking about how Walt killed Gus, though, here? I can see how he could be referring to season 3, but it sounded to me like he meant when Walt killed Gus and how Walt was defiant at the start of season 4. Oh well. Doesn't matter either way. I still like Mike's lines. But remember in Crawl Space, Gus only said he'd kill Walt if he interfered with Gus' pursuit of Hank. Jesse had already warned Gus not to kill Walt. So Gus would've been at a standstill on Walt for some time. He already took out the cartel so there wasn't as much pressure on him. But Walt got aggressive and killed Gus anyway. I know he did this too to save Hank to some degree, but I thought that was what Mike's line meant. Either way, I still love everything about the show and in general it still makes sense in a way to Mike from his point of view.

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You need to backtrack a little bit further - to where this whole scenario started.

Jesse intended to avenge Combo's death. You will recall it was Walt who pushed Jesse into expanding his territory with his boys. Walt to Jesse : "Grow a pair!"

This got combo killed.

Jesse's plan was tight. Using hamburgers to deliver the ricin the 2 street dealers via Wendy - who always took them hamburgers.

It was "Walt's big Mouth" that went running to the big honcho Gus ratting on Jesse about his plan to take out a couple of nothing street dealers which started the whole down-slide.

Hence Mike said to Walt "You could've shut your mouth"

Walt should have kept his nose out of Jesse's business. It was a good plan, as Jesse fully intended to avenge Combo's death. It would have also saved the kid Tomas as well, maybe.


Matrixflower :)

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Mike was the one who stopped Jesse from killing them with the burgers. And you're seriously going to try to claim that in that speech, Mike is arguing that Walt screwed things up by not helping Jesse kill the dealers earlier? Pfffft, that is a stretch and a half.

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What? I didn't say that !



Matrixflower :)

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So tell me how Mike feels that Walt's ego prevented the scenario where they all (Mike, Jesse, and Walt at least) end up "fine".

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Re-read my post where it says to the effect : Walt's big mouth going to Gus ratting on Jesse (re Jesse's plan) started the spiral down....

I have no intention of spoon feeding it to you in any simpler terms.

You choose to see a condensed version starting at the point of Walt running down the dealers - that is one eyed (blindered).


Matrixflower :)

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I did not start it there. But if you think Mike's speech was about how Walt should not have gone to Gus but rather let Jesse kill the dealers, you are the one who is seriously blinkered, or "blindered" as you call it.

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Weell you did sort of did start it there - but I must say a helluva lot of people do ....

It's deliberate story/viewer manipulation. 'Smoke and mirrors'.



Matrixflower :)

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Uh huh. 😒

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what kind of argument is that.. you lose.. you have no clue wtf youre tlaking about.. stfu .. the other guy is the winnner!



DING DING DING DING!!

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I'm pretty sure he correctly meant "blindered".

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Well it was Walt's loyalty to Jesse (surrogate son) and keeping him on staff (who was also a time bomb) that ended up bringing down Gus and Mike's house of cards.

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If Walt would have 'kept his nose out of Jesses business' then Jesse would be dead, many times over.

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many times over.



Can you give us examples?

Excluding running down the street dealers, as has been discussed above (where it is demonstrated Walt's hand in bringing on those events, himself) .... and excluding times when Walt was basically saving himself by so doing?



Matrixflower :)

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then Jesse would be dead, many times over.



Can you give us examples?

Excluding running down the street dealers, as has been discussed above (where it is demonstrated Walt's hand in bringing on those events, himself) .... and excluding times when Walt was basically saving himself by so doing?



Matrixflower :)

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Sorry for the doubled up post - I don't know what happened there😳



Matrixflower :)

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[deleted]

Walt should have minded his own bees-wax.... Jesse's plan to take out the dealers who killed Combo was good.

As for Combo's death - Walt's forcing Jesse to expand territories against Jesse's savy advice, led to Combo's death. Thats pretty much indisputable.



Matrixflower :)

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[deleted]

Walt had no 'distribution' strategy in place when he embarked on the Meth business road. Jesse was his distribution plan. But when it came to it Walt interferred (as usual, control freak he is) and shamed Jesse into expanding into others' territories - with no clue as to possible repercusssions.

Walt was a terrible startup business entrepeneur. The distribution was as major a part of the business as the production. Eventually he was lucky that Saul knew a guy who knew Gus Fring ...... otherwise Walt was screwed..... with all that Meth and nowhere to go.

Walt's interferring ineptitude got Combo killed, and his ratting Jesse out to Gus almost got Jesse killed as well. Walt always thought he knew what was best, the best way to go..... but the whole series is a demonstration of the exact opposite. Walt was an immature screw-up in a mature teachers body. He should have stuck to what he did best - taken the job with Elliott.... and let others make the corporate/business decisions leaving him free to do his amazing Chemistry.

Bottom line - it was basically Walt's lack of forethought/forsight and lousy hubris ridden planning and knee-jerk reactions which basically got everyone throughout killed.


Matrixflower :)

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[deleted]

Remember when Jesse had decided to kill the 2 drug dealers, and Walter saved him, he told Jesse to leave and disappear. Of course Jesse didn't listen.

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Walt saved Jesse from a situation which Walt himself created (by ratting on Jesse to the head honcho Gus). I don't think that constitutes saving Jesse. And btw Walt's knee-jerk behaviour of interfering by tattling to Gus, got the boy Tomas killed, him being the brother of Jesse's girlfriend Andrea. Walt exacerbated the whole situation of which he was entirely uninformed of the core circumstances. He just rushed on in without understanding or caring about Jesse's motives and without forthought. Walt lived in a kind of haze, not bothering to think things through.... and acted hastily and agressively inappropriately for himself and in terms of safety for his family. His dark rabbit hole evolved deeper and more screwed up the further along the criminal underworld he travelled.Gus's first instincts about Walt were right.....Walt was trouble. Turmoil was Walt's middle name.... We saw his screw-ups at the school, at the car wash, in his home, in his meth ventures. And eventually it cost everyone around him, dearly.



Matrixflower :)

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[deleted]

Gus didn't care which one of the two was his ocok, they both produced exceptional levels of purity. But Walt had become a fly in the ointment by 'engaging' Gus in street situations. The last thing Gus wanted was to have to call in a couple of street dealer thugs he had nothing to otherwisse do with, to have to sort out small time grievances between his 2 cooks. Gus could care less who was killing who out there - at the end of one of zillions of street distribution points. Walt created a messy situation for Gus by going to him and basically demanding Gus's involvement at the street level. Especially as Gus wanting to maintain his notable respectable businessman status being a cover for his meth empire - the fewer people who knew his identity was key to his security ...... without having low life dealers brought into the heart of his setup, working things out about Gus Fring and his top position in the drug underworld. Walt didnt think a single thing through - he just ran off and tattled to the headmaster (so to speak) instead of doing as a savvy crim would have done and handled it himself, quietly. So Walt placed himself as a 'wild card' who couldn't be relied on to be predictable and smart. Of course Gus probably started thinking Jesse was the better bet, as his cook, coz Walt is too big a risk.... dragging Gus into dangerous scenario's needlessly.




Matrixflower :)

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If Gus didn't want to involve him self in street level grievenses if could have just told Walt to take a hike when he approached him about Jesse, and not set up that intervention meeting. What bothered Gus, I think, was that even after the effort he made to peasefully resolve the dispute, Jesse and Walt killed the two dealers anyway, stepping out of line and labelling themselves as trouble makers.

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Walt was never going to be content just cooking for Gus -- that's the premise of the entire frickin' show. He's bitter over losing out on his true legacy with the Gray Matter corporation and he used his precarious cancer situation as an excuse to pursue a new type of empire. "I'm in the empire-building business," he says. Things with Gus were never going to work out. A day, a week, a month, Walt eventually would have flown off the handle and made a move on Gus. He was erratic, he was irrational, he was obsessed with being the kingpin, constantly egging people on.

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I don't see any evidence for that in the show itself--that's completely speculative. And in any event, it still renders Mike's complaint moot, because it wasn't about what might have happened in some alternate timeline.

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don't see any evidence for that in the show itself-


He kills Mike when has absolutely no reason to. He blows his car up for fun. He makes a speech about how he doesn't care about money and wants to build his empire. He convinces Hank that Heisenberg is still out there, when Hank thought he was dead. When he finds out he has cancer, he starts cooking frickin' meth. His ego, his inability to be subordinate, and his desire to rise to the top are his driving attributes. He's a loose cannon that will stop at nothing to reign. It's one of the show's central themes. Walt was never going to just twiddle his thumbs and let Gus be the boss. If you don't see it then you must be trying not to.

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Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the antidote to shame.

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And yet he happily and quietly cooked for Declan until retiring upon the insistence of his wife, whereupon he was settling into his life as a carwash owner.
He certainly had his erratic moments but to say that Walt was incapable of being subordinate and will stop at nothing to reign is just to cherry-pick quotations. He was more than capable of just getting on with the job too.
$80 million testifies to that fact.

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he happily and quietly cooked for Declan

Except Walt didn't cook "for" Declan. His first tactic was to intimidate Declan by making him aware he killed Gus Fring and that he's the notorious Heisenberg, the ruthless genius. The central point of the "Say My Name" confrontation was that Walt was not intending to work "for" anyone.

Walt's grandiosity was not a one-off thing, as flashbacks and events over the seasons leading to Skyler's intervention make clear. This is obviously due to the fact that not only did his fatal flaw remain intact, it had only been reinforced. It was an addiction. So it's quite reasonable for DeusExKatrina to say that "His ego, his inability to be subordinate, and his desire to rise to the top are his driving attributes. He's a loose cannon that will stop at nothing to reign."

Given this, Walt's boundless need to feed his ego by acquiring ever more external power would have made for an uneasy retirement. As he said, this was what he was good at. That ego would have continued to bristle at the fact that Gretchen and Elliott's "little empire," to borrow Walt's words, was still worth much more and was publicly celebrated. Out of the limelight even among criminals, still frustrated at not being able to boast of his accomplishments, twiddling his thumbs... sooner than later Walt's insatiable ego would have dominated him again and he'd have been compelled to satisfy it.

The point of a character study/cautionary tale like BB is that as long as the character's fatal flaw isn't dealt with, no other conditions could ever be achieved whereby life could turn out all right. Lacking the courage and strength to confront and mitigate his internal flaw, one way or another Walt would always end up bringing disaster on himself and his family.

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He did cook for Declan, that's exactly what he did in fact. He put in shift after shift cooking meth for Declan to sell and he made a good deal of money for him too as well as making money for himself of course. Mentioning killing Gus Fring made sense as he needed to earn Declan's respect in order to make the deal in the first place and not end up being killed for scuppering Declan's initial plans made with Mike. Of course he did this in a grandiose way but this is what many viewers loved about Walt in the show, just look at the promotional posters stating "remember my name". Walt was a badass, but he was also smart and a great meth cook and, like it or not, a reliable and non-volatile part of Declan's operation.

You speculate that Walt wouldn't have been able to settle into life at the carwash based on his previous behaviour but he flat out rejected Lydia's attempts to bring him back into the business and with the battle back on with cancer I think it's reasonable to believe that he'd put the meth business behind him. In fact look at the relaxed family scene where Walt and Skyler are enjoying a family BBQ looking more comfortable and relaxed than they had done in years. Walt seemed genuinely calm and content here, certainly not like a man who was focussed on "reigning". It was his past catching up with him which dragged him back in to turmoil, not his future desires.

You've clearly made the same mistake as Katrina in taking Walt at his most extreme words and judging him on his most extreme actions. There was more to his character than his self-obsession and need for power. He was more complex than that.

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Walt clearly partnered with Delcan. It's astonishing that you don't even know the difference between partnering and working for someone.

Walt rejected Lydia only shortly after retiring. You didn't read that paragraph with attention. He was bound to enjoy BBQ's at home for a time. But his past continues to be his present in retirement since he'd never dealt with it. It would catch up with him in some form and drag him back into turmoil.

Addiction/compulsion reduces human complexity. No matter what other qualities Walt possessed, his core flaw, his wound, was left untreated. It would therefore continue to exert itself and become dominant, moreso because he had glimpsed "empire" and briefly felt the rush of power and now it was ended. There are no qualifications, no external conditions, which would prevent this from happening.

The central tragedy of the story is that this character's many gifts are overwhelmed by his flaw, which must inevitably lead to pain and suffering.

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Read properly, I said cooked for not worked for. It's astonishing that you wouldn't be able to distinguish between these two verbs. I didn't say Walt was subordinate to Declan but that he got on with his end and made Declan and himself a lot of money, simple as.

Well since the story didn't unfold that way, all we have is your speculation and narrative tropes to fall back on. Which are less than conclusive.

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As I said in my first response, he didn't cook "for" Declan. Cook, work, do anything "for" Declan. But it was more than that. Not only did Walt not perceive himself cooking "for" Declan, he wanted to make it clear he was Declan's superior. And Declan got that message, and agreed to those exact terms:

WALT
if you agree to give up your cook
and sell my product instead, I'll
give you 35 percent of the take.

DECLAN
We're not gonna give up this deal
to be your errand boys, do you
understand?

WALT
you'll earn more from that 35%
than you ever would on your own.

DECLAN
Yeah. So you say. Just wondering
why we're so lucky. Why cut us in?

WALT
Mike is retiring from our crew, so his
share of the partnership is available,
if you can handle his end-- distribution.
And if you give him five million dollars
of the 15 million that you brought
today. Just think of it as a finder's fee
for bringing us together.
For the final browbeating touch, Walt then revealed that he killed the cunning, ruthless, and immensely successful Gus Fring, and ordered - ordered - Declan to say his name. That is not cooking "for" Declan.

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That's a great scene and that Walt is such a badass. It's so over the top and ridiculous but funny as hell. Kinda like a good John Woo or Schwarzenegger movie.
Anyway, semantics aside, the point was that Walter got on with his end and didn't try to cut Declan out or expand his territory or whatever and essentially was reliable and non-confrontational once he'd done his deal. He then walked away when his wife wanted him to. Not the actions of someone in the "empire business", I just think that was another action moviesque badass quotation.
But all this aside, I really don't think this is a TV show once should scrutinise too much. Like Hard Boiled or The Predator, it's really escapist entertainment. Except Cranston elevates it.

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I really don't think this is a TV show once should scrutinise too much. Like Hard Boiled or The Predator

The comparisons are risible. "Too much" is just a convenient rationalization to avoid confronting more trenchant analysis. All TV drama is to an extent escapist entertainment, BB no exception, but that doesn't necessarily mean every show can be appreciated in your reductive terms, and lacks substance worth considerable scrutiny. With an attitude like yours it's no wonder you've missed so much.

In the case of Declan you changed goalposts. The point was that Walt didn't cook "for" Declan but made sure Declan was a minor partner, and that Declan understood his status loud and clear. Walt owned the operation by virtue of 65% of the profits and owned Declan by intimidation.

As for the second point, Walt did not walk away merely because his wife wanted him to. He walked away because Skyler shocked him out of his blind, mechanical routine so he could see the absurdity of continuing. But as mentioned, since that did nothing to treat his core flaw, retirement would be an interlude not an end. The meth business was what he was good at. Walt's ego had finally experienced a taste of dominance. But he could never tell of his accomplishments, never accept credit for anything. He could never live the high life, never flaunt the money, never feel powerful.

Deep down the money wasn't what he was after the most. He was after power. But now he'd just be a car wash co-owner, needing to get approval from his more savvy business partner wife and having to chirpily repeat "Have an A-1 day" endlessly. The cancer would likely return. At some point, in some form, his narcissism would compel him to seek more gratification.

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"The point of a character study/cautionary tale like BB is that as long as the character's fatal flaw isn't dealt with, no other conditions could ever be achieved whereby life could turn out all right. Lacking the courage and strength to confront and mitigate his internal flaw, one way or another Walt would always end up bringing disaster on himself and his family. "

Yeah I get that. I'm less interested in the contrivances here though. I actually wasn't a massive fan of the general writing of Breaking Bad, I was much more impressed with Cranston's interpretation of Walt. There was something delicious in his characterisation which took me along on hisspecific journey while leaving me cold to all of the other characters in comparison. It was such that I wanted Walt to triumph because he was the only character who really mattered to me, so his suffering mattered whereas the suffering of others didn't.
I put that down to poor writing and poor character development of pretty much everyone outside of Walt.
I felt very differently about the fates of other characters when watching the Sopranos for example, which did a much better job of investing in and fleshing out its other characters making me take a very different view of Tony Soprano, despite rooting for him too at times, I was much more conflicted on him than I was Walt.
Walt was screwing up the lives of dull caricatures whereas Tony was screwing with characters I'd genuinely invested in.

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If you're going to dismiss the character's core flaw as a "contrivance," though it dominates him and determines the nature and course of his journey, then you won't be talking about the character - or Breaking Bad, for that matter - but some other invention of your own. You say you value the character's complexity, yet you've created a label that allows you to see him simplistically.

As Walt's obsession with power gradually took hold, he became less dimensional. This is a natural effect. He was able to quarantine his conscience, and therefore experienced fewer contradictions in values. His major obstacles then became external rather than internal. To compensate, the role of Skyler had to do most of the story's heavy lifting in terms of character complexity.

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You know what, as much as I dislike your tone, I'm going to give it to you, you're right, to an extent.
Gilligan provided the raw material and Cranston ran with it and expanded it in a feat of commitment and genius to really bring this character off the page. Cranston also went on to make what should've been an implausible and faintly ridiculous genre piece an utterly compelling thrill-ride. There were many occasions on which I ignored aspects of the show which were poorly rendered, inexplicable behaviour such as Walt's continuing to bail out Jesse to the point of murdering others and severely risking his own life (I didn't buy that plot point for a second) to his far too rapid transformation from scared middle-aged man with cancer to a guy so badass that he walks into a man like Tuco's quarters and blows the place up.
There was so much which was utterly preposterous but seeing how much Cranston was living and investing in the role anyway kept me utterly hooked. It's almost as if he had some internal logic which made it all make sense which I decided to trust, but if I think about the show too much I realise that logic doesn't really extend very far (although clearly it'd extended far enough).
So yeah, maybe I have purposefully avoided looking at the series as a whole, and even Walt's full character, whatever that really is as I think it's exaggerated and juxtaposed to the point of being difficult to get any real handle on, in order to enjoy the set-pieces in which Cranston continually operates as an outstanding credit to his craft.
To break it down for you, I don't really care too much for Breaking Bad in its entirety, I just loved watching Cranston having a ball and not once breaking character as he made the preposterous utterly engrossing and compelling.

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Thats total speculation. No evidence of what could've, would've happened in the future.

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Mike was an ungrateful ass hole. He didn't care if Walt or Jesse got killed so long as he kept making bank he could leave his granddaughter. What he should have said was "I had a good thing." And technically Gus ruined it, but that's why Mike was the muscle.

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Interesting, a non-Mike fan! I don't run into too many of those.

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I like Mike fine, more so now on BCS, but he was an ungrateful ass hole. He was all about making money off of Walt's creation while abusing and disrespecting him. And he would have been perfectly fine with Walt and Jesse being killed, just as he was with Tomas being killed, so long as he got his. His tantrum was ridiculous.

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Agreed. Although later he seemed to become very fond of Jesse.

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I agree, I'm just referring to at that time. However, I do think if Gus had said Jesse absolutely had to go, Mike still would have been willing to kill him. I only see Walt as willing to defy Gus, kill others or even be killed himself to protect Jesse.

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Haha, well put.

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I think he meant if Walt had just sat back and let Gus deal with jesse then everything would have been fine.


Lose the Game!!!!!!!

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Two problems with that:

(1) By this point Mike was very fond of Jesse;

(2) He said "we'd all be fine", which has to include Jesse--not only because of Mike's fondness for him, but because the three of them were partners. And there's no way Jesse would be fine if Walt had let Gus deal with him.

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I don't think Mike's "we" has to include Jesse at all. His priority was clearly his granddaughter and whatever fondness he had for Jesse would not have interfered with that.
I agree that his complaint was that Walter muddied the waters by first bringing Jessie into the operation and then by defying Gus to save him.

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Which ignores my first point, that by this time Gus was very fond of Jesse (and he knows that Walt was always fond of him). So I could turn this around: why does Mike hate Walt but not Jesse? Clearly, it was Jesse who most directly screwed everything up.

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I think you've answered your own question. At this point Mike has grown fond of Jesse and so he has his little rant at Walter instead and conveniently puts all the blame on him.
For me the problem with this scene is not so much Mike's words but Walt's reaction. Walt reacts as if Mike has hit upon a truth and that out of visceral bitterness and an inability to face the said truth, he murders him. Because of what you've pointed out, I don't buy this reaction.
A calm calculated murder based on wanting to whack Mike's guys at a later date would make more sense.

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Mike is never portrayed as irrational at any other point that I can recall.

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Irrational might be a bit harsh, but he did seem to be guided by his dislike for Walt at various points during the show. Not least when rushing toward him with a loaded gun after Gus is killed and not even enquiring into Jesse's role in it all, which you'd think he might with Jesse clearly being aligned with Walt at this stage.

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I was really wondering about that as well. It just didn't sound right, unless maybe he was specifically referring to Gus' operation and Mike's interests, and not really Jesse or Walter at all.

Although, he could be referring to Gus' original deal in which Walter and Gale cook together as a team, with no hostile strings attached. You know... before Walt insisted Gale be replaced with Jesse. To me, that's really the first time he irked Gus, since Gale was his groomed pupil.

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But (I'm a little fuzzy on this part) wasn't the problem there that Jesse was on a tear that was going to kind of burn them anyway if Walt didn't come up with a way to keep him busy? Seems like once again, the only other solution was to ice Jesse, which is again problematic for Mike to say once he's taken such a shine to the kid by this point.

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Walt had to appease Jesse by bringing him in to replace Gale as Jesse was a loose canon bent on revenge against Hank for beating him within an inch of his life. Jesses personal revenge motive would have jeopardized the entire operation. Jesse was the weak link, the irrational thinker of the lot that Walt steadfastly protected like a son even to the detriment of his own well being.

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I just made an account so I could bring up the fact everyone is forgetting about Gale. Remember when Walt first went into the lab and Gale was his assistant? I thought that's what Mike was referring to. After he brought in Jesse things blew up from there. I don't think Mike was implying he should have let Jesse die in S3 I think he was implying he never should have brought Jesse into it to begin with and he should have just accepted Gale was his assistant and left Jesse behind.

The reason Walt couldn't do that is he needed to get Jesse off of Hank and Jesse had become a comparable cook at that point and I think Walt wanted him off the street. But Mike was right, if Walt had accepted Gale as his assistant and just cooked everything would have been fine.

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But no, things would not have been fine, because Jesse going after Hank like that was threatening to blow things up for everyone. Saul was even suggesting Jesse might need to be "sent to Belize" (years before that phrase was actually used).

It still goes back to being Jesse's fault, no matter what level you take it to. Walt would have loved to chill and hang out with Gale, but Jesse's freakout meant that couldn't happen.

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I guess my point is between Mike implying Walt should have let Jesse die or Mike implying he should have just accepted Gale as his assistant (I don't think Mike ever knew about the Jesse vs Hank situation) what he told Walter in this episode did make sense which is the original argument here.

Maybe Mike liked Jesse at that point (We can infer now with BCS that Maybe Mike saw a lot of his dead son in Jesse) but it wouldn't change the fact Mike would have understood that if Walt just let Jesse die everything would have been fine. Mike can still love Jesse and also understand he should have just been killed for the greater good.

I still think Mike was talking about Walt not accepting Gale as his partner because he had no idea that the Jesse vs Hank stuff was going on and from that angle it makes perfect sense Mike said what he said because he never would have been able to understand why Walt brought Jesse into the game to begin with - that quote and situation with Jesse was strictly between Saul and Walt and Mike would have had no idea why Walt just had to replace Gale with Jesse.

I think the better question is why Mike wasn't furious with Jesse for not letting Gus just kill Walter. Had Jesse just accepted that Walt needed to die in S4 then he could have taken over as the main cook with Walt out of the picture.

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Yeah, Walt insisting on having Jesse in the superlab is what sabotaged everything for Mike and Gus.

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Walt ruined the deal when he showed he couldn't be controlled and his loyalty was to Jesse, not Gus. Gale was just learning Walt's recipe but Mike didn't care if Walt was disposed of, or Jesse apparently. Just as he didn't care that children were being used as dealers and slaughtered when they became a nuisance. Mike had a good thing going and he didn't care if it wasn't so good for anyone else. Walt ruined Mike's good thing.

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Mike was a criminal enforcer and killer who's respect to a dead Gus and loyalty to the remaining Gus henchmen was perceived as a barrier for Walt, but to be fair the use of kids as cannon fodder on the streets was down to the criminal gang that Gus subcontracted and out of Mike's direct control, even if he indirectly colluding with the it (it's a different a story to Mike watching Todd kill a child in front of him). Mike at the end had genuine affection for Jesse, but most people often forget that was after the Gale/Vincent fiasco.

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But why was everything all forgiven with Jesse, but not with Walt? There's no way it's logical to aim that speech at Walt but not also at Jesse.

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Logic has almost nothing to do with human relationships. Mike liked Jesse and he didn't like Walt.

Vote Syriza and Podemos!

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IF, as BreakingBad83 says, Mike's speech was indeed inferencing that everything would have been fine if Walt would have just accepted Gale as his new lab assistant (although that's not how I read Mike's speech) then perhaps, from Mike's vantage point, this logic makes sense IF Mike presumably had no knowledge of the on-going feud between Jesse and Hank that threatened to expose them all.
However, if at this point Jesse had already defied Gus by going after Gus's de facto street thugs after promising Gus that their beef was over, or done any number of other mind-numbing actions then Mike's venom was sorely misplaced as Jesse was the clear cause of Mike's consternation.

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It does from Mike's perspective. Walt had Gale killed, which led Hank right to Gus' doorstep. Killing Gus left them all exposed.

Mike had been in the game long enough to know how the dominoes fall. Walt was a relative newbie, rash and impulsive.

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Not to mention Walt directly blowing up Gus and his lab.

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Walt had Gale killed (by Jesse, Mike's best bud at this point) because Mike was about to murder Walt in cold blood! So you're saying that Walt should have just meekly gone to his doom?

More generally, many of you are ignoring the fact that Mike was directing all this venom at Walt when Jesse was at least as responsible for everything you could point to, yet Mike was peachy-keen with Jesse by that point. So I could phrase it a different way: "Mike's being pissed off at Walt but not Jesse doesn't make sense."

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"Mike's being pissed off at Walt but not Jesse doesn't make sense."

It does make sense if you accept what i'm saying. Mike understood that Jesse had his share in screwing everything up but at the point of this speech he had already come to like Jesse so he directed his anger at Walt for bringing Jesse into the operation to begin with. If Walt could have just accepted Gale as his assistant everything would have been fine.

When you consider Mike would have had no idea about the Jesse vs Hank stuff it makes sense he would be thinking about that - he's basically asking Walt why he couldn't just accept the situation as it was. Mike knows Jesse screwed up a lot of things but Walter brought Jesse into it because he needed him as a partner. Ultimately it was all Walt's fault because Walt could have explained to Gus his situation with Jesse and had him killed - Mike never would have gotten to know him and to him it would have just been another dead dealer. Mike hates Walt for a lot of reasons so I think it's reasonable to think he could believe it was all Walt's fault that Jesse got into any of this.

I think the point Mike was trying to make here was that he wasn't Gus and he never could be. What Gus had created took years, decades even, and Walt thought he could just take over everything and run it better than he did. I think in Mike's eyes he felt the operation was flawed from the start but he did it anyway to try and keep everyone quiet and his grand daughter wealthy. When the cops started to press him he knew it was over for him and he unleashed his anger on Walt because of it.

Walt bringing Pinkman in screwed up everything so in Mike's eyes it's Walt's fault, not Jesse's.

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Mike sees the big picture. He's not going to put the whole operation in jeopardy just to save his own butt. That's what Walt did, and I thought it was clear Mike had no respect for how Walt went about things.

that Walt should have just meekly gone to his doom?


Walt is a dying man anyway.

Yes, he and Jesse knew the consequences of their actions, but it was Gale who paid for them. Walt and Jesse would've been killed, but they would no longer be putting their loved ones in danger, and Walt's family would've gotten their money still.

Mike's being pissed off at Walt but not Jesse doesn't make sense.


Jesse saved his life in Mexico.

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