The relationship between Prudie and her student was all wrong on so many levels. It is completely against the law the things they did while he was still a student. This movie is a complete insult to high school teachers!!!
shareWhat the *beep*?
God forgive you, but I never will.
They barely did anything and honestly I think he was the one who knew more what he was doing. I think he was trying to use how emotionally fragile she was to his advantage and I think when he realized she had a crush on him he wanted to see how far he could take her. Anyway he was 18 years old which is a legal age for whatever they may have done. It's not like he was one of her middle school students or something. And it also was not like she was manipulating him into anything.
shareI thought that is was realistic, he was HOT, who wouldn't be tempted ?? wrong as in teacher/student? maybe, wrong as in man/woman, no way!
shareI thought this was totally hypocritical, what if a male teacher almost had an affair, with a female student? The media and women would be outraged. There is a huge moral double standard that when women teachers have affairs with their students it is not looked down upon as when men do. That whole affair thing was total garbage.
shareExcept that older women with men is already taboo and there is a constant outrage whenever female teachers have relationships with their students...
shareIn real life, there have been several female teachers in recent years who have had affairs with underage students and have been portrayed as sympathetic characters by many people - so there is a double standard quite often.
As far as the movie goes, yes, it was obviously inappropriate for the teacher to entertain having an affair with a student, and she said so. But it doesn't make any sense to say the movie insults all high school teachers by showing one fictional character doing what she did. The movie says nothing about high school teachers in general.
My real name is Jeff
Except that it was enough to get her fired. and in many states now, sexual contact between a teacher and student, regardless of the student's age, is considered sexual predation. If she'd been caught and found guilty, she probably wold have ended up doing jail time, then a regisetered sex offendeer for the rest of her life. not kidding.
shareI just watched this and first, it was nice to see Emily Blunt back after her role in The Devil Wears Prada. I agree with you about the student-it did seem like he wanted to take advantage of the fact that she was vulnerable. The nice thing was, she regained her common sense and worked things out with her husband.
shareI agree, she was not manipulating him, he was totally trying to see how far he could get with this shy, quiet teacher.
I think it was supposed to be an analogy to Fanny Price and Henry Crawford in Mansfield Park. Henry is captivated by Fanny because she's so unapproachable ("prudish"), and Fanny, while aware that Henry comes on to all the girls, eventually starts to fall for Henry because of his persistence and his Jane Austen version of hotness and the fact that he is Fanny's comforter when Sir Bertram and Edmund seem to have abandoned her. And she almost gives in, but sticks to her principles in the end.
"What would Jane do?" Mansfield Park is all about Fanny being constantly tempted to betray her principles, and Henry Crawford is her biggest temptation of all. And if she had married him, it would have meant the destruction of "Mansfield Park," Henry with Fanny and Mary with Edmund and "London values" overcoming Sir Bertram's patrician patriarchy: disaster.
So for the movie's modern analogy they had to make Trey a super-hot temptation with the stakes enormous if Prudie gives in: her marriage, her job, everything on the line.
I found your post extremely interesting.
And if she had married him, it would have meant the destruction of "Mansfield Park," Henry with Fanny and Mary with Edmund and "London values" overcoming Sir Bertram's patrician patriarchy: disaster.
IMO, it's not that Mary and Henry's "London values" would have destroyed the "higher values" Sir Thomas established at Mansfield Park. The book illustrates that the values have already sunk: Tom over-spends so much that his brother's preferment has to be sold to Dr. Grant; all of the Bertram children, including Edmund, choose to act in a racy play despite knowing how strongly their father will object; Maria marries for money, without love; and Julia elopes with Mr. Yates. IMO, it's not so much that Fanny's marriage to Edmund prevents the ruin of Mansfield by keeping the Crawfords out-- it's that Fanny herself saves Mansfield because she embodies the moral principles that Sir Thomas always thought he'd established in his family (but he eventually learns they never took root). It's not London values that would have ruined Mansfield, the Bertram offspring seemed hell-bent on doing it themselves. Fanny's goodness saves Mansfield from itself, not from London values. Mansfield subsists on slave-labor (Sir Thomas' investments in Antigua). This moral corruption doesn't come from the Crawfords, but from the Bertram family antecedents. Bringing Fanny into the family changes their moral make-up.
So for the movie's modern analogy they had to make Trey a super-hot temptation with the stakes enormous if Prudie gives in: her marriage, her job, everything on the line.
Although I find this assertion fascinating (I never thought of it that way, and you make several excellent points), I find this part of the story so difficult to accept because I don't see fanny's tests in MP as temptations, rather I see them as pressures applied by other characters to try and get her to do what they want her to do, instead of what she wants to do (which is what she knows to be right).
Great post!
shareClearly. You are one of the few people I have seen here who has actually read at least one of the Jane Austen books and who understands how the relationships in The Jane Austen Book Club, to a certain extent, parallel the ones in Austen's books.
shareAgree. If anything, the guy was the one doing all the predation. He was hot and he knew it, as shown by how many girls he's groping up every time Prudie saw him earlier. Prudie would have been nothing but a notch on his belt the moment he graduates. Something to brag about to his buddies, but nothing more. Even when Prudie discloses how she felt about her mother, all he could care about was getting a room. Not exactly "innocent".
shareI second that... "What the *beep*?"
Made You Look
It is not against the law, actually. As Trey is eighteen-years old, there's no legal reason they could not enter into a relationship. Of course, it is probably unethical, but how many college professors has that stopped? If anything, it's just sad that Prudie feels so neglected by her own husband that she'd think of a teenage boy, who are universally bad in bed, as an alternative. Still, Prudie is very young, in the book even younger than Allegra, barely into her 20s herself. And, given her mother's treatment of her, Prudie has probably had someone pay so much attention to her.
It wasn't the lycans. It was you.
I have to agree with terraphim86 on this one. Trey was 18. He's an adult so there is nothing that can be done to her legally, however since he was her student, it was frowned upon, and it is against school regulations so she would have been fired. But from a legal stand point, she did nothing wrong. And besides, He's hot and Trey is sooooo sexy it is hard to resist him!
shareA high school teacher who is capable of seeing a high school student in that way, and allows those lines to be crossed, should not be teaching high school. Period.
shareIt's not like she planned for what happened. I don't think she ever expected to get to that point of unhappiness.
It wasn't the lycans. It was you.
Ever hear of Mary Kay LeTourneau? Not to mention at least two more recent cases of female teachers and male students. It happens in real life all the time. As George Carlin said, "some people call these guys victims. I call them lucky bastards!".
Also, Prudie had a French outlook on life.
The Wookie has no pants.
Well if you thought this was bad, then definitely don't watch Notes on a Scandal. That student-teacher relationship is was more twisted and nasty.
it should take you exactly 4 seconds to cross to that door, I'll give you 2
Yeah, but totally hot!
The Wookie has no pants.
I liked them. Her husband was just a jerk. And i thought it was totally unrealtistic how all of a sudden he changed at the end. Prudie was my favorite!!
Tim/Lyla.Logan/Veronica.Chuck/Blair.Alex/Izzie.Pacey/Joey.Ross/Rachel.
I liked them. Her husband was just a jerk. And i thought it was totally unrealtistic how all of a sudden he changed at the end. Prudie was my favorite!!
well i didnt think it was wrong, i mean from the start you could tell that she wasnt that much older then he was and she obviously just needed attention from some one i thought he was hot!! lol i kind of wanted her to cross that street and be with him even though i knew it would just be lustful but still lol
Team Edward
R&R
[deleted]
I agree with you to an extent, utterblissikins. While I wouldn't call Dean a "jerk", I wouldn't say that he didn't change by the end of film/book either. (I wouldn't know what happened in the book, because I didn't read it :/). The most "jerkish" details of Dean's character, I would say, is the fact that he wasn't a "good" husband. He wasn't bad or awful or emotionally/physically degrading towards Prudie in the slightest, but he didn't have the slightest clue of how to be a companion with his own wife and while he admitted this fault, he hardly tried to make an effort to change or improve upon this fault.
To me, by having him start to read Persuasion at the end of the film was signifying that Dean was finally starting to allow himself to change and actually get to know his own wife. He wasn't so totally absorbed in his own interests. And yes, Prudie DID start accepting the fact that her own husband wasn't as culturally well-rounded as she expected him to be. I saw the ending as the two coming to a compromise.
As for the teacher/student relationship and it's obvious inappropriateness, I'm with the majority of those on this thread. I don't believe anything about it was illegal about it (he was 18, after all), but as far as a high school teacher consorting with a student IS inappropriate. BUT, Prudie IS young and probably close to Trey in age. If she hadn't been married and there was actually something substantial brewing between the two, I say...wait until after graduation. Who cares about the age gap. If Demi Moore can marry Ashton Kutcher and make things grand, then Prudie and Trey could have too.
I admit I didn't see the movie, I only read the book
But from what I am reading here, the movie has taken a very different road from the book...!
In the book, Prudie's husband is depicted as someone quite close to perfection. It is never said that he dislikes literature, or similar. And Prudie is not so young as it seems reading the posts: in the book, she is supposed to be closer to the 25/30, rather than to the 20s.
But this one left me astonished:
The only *beep* thing I thought he did was cancelling the Paris trip
Her husband DID change at the end of the movie. He agreed to have her read one page of an Austen novel, then that led to him being interested and reading more on his own. At the end, he says he wants to participate in the book club.
He changed in that he extended himself to her emotionally in agreeing to get involved in something she loved and wanted him to appreciate. They had a closer bond at the end of the movie - which was evdident in their body language as well as what they were both saying and doing.
My real name is Jeff
People give poor Dean such a hard time. Give the guy a break!
As for Trey and Prudie, it happens ALL THE TIME. It happened constantly at both the high schools I attended. At least Prudie was young, unlike some of my teachers who were in their late 30s and getting it on with the teenage students.
Why settle with words what you can settle with a flamethrower?
FYI, we don't like our teachers to sleep with their students in France either :p
shareI agree. One reason it's unethical is because of the risk that the teacher will show favoritism to the student as far as grades or will threaten to give bad grades to the student if the relationship begins to sour.
share
first off he was 18 and hot!!! yea she was the teacher and all but i think the only thing that bothered me was she was married. and they just needed a chance together..wow that guy was hot.. i would have ran to that motel.. ignore the cars ingore the cars lmaooooo
Whats your damage heather?-veronica sawyer
And after having sex with him, what next?
There was nowhere for the relationship to go. The kid never showed any interest in her other than sex. He didn't care about what she thought or what her dreams were. If Prudie thought things were poor with her husband, she would have felt even worse in a relatinoship with the kid.... Assuming that there WOULD have been a relationship. I highly doubt it would have turned into a relationship at all. It would have been sex, and then nothing....
Just because something is not illegal does not mean it is morally correct.
A relationship between the 2 of them would have been in poor taste. Honestly, as a female, I do not understand why a woman would be attracted to a male that much younger when there is geat guys on more of her maturity level. Granted, people do things for different reasons.
[deleted]
Trey was 18. He's an adult so there is nothing that can be done to her legally, however since he was her student, it was frowned upon, and it is against school regulations so she would have been fired. But from a legal stand point, she did nothing wrong.
Just FYI, in most states a teacher at the high school level would lose his/her teaching license if a relationship with a current student regardless if whether that student is 18 or not. This doesn't always happen, of course, and doesn't mean jail time (as 18 is of legal age) but would have serious consequences for a teacher's career and is considered a conflict of interest.
shareI already posted this somewhere else, but I agree...the whole student/teacher thing was completely inappropriate. I will be honest here, I taught high school English fresh out of college/grad school, and was only five years older than my students at the time. I'm not being conceited, just matter-of-fact, to admit that I think there were several male students who had a crush on me (at least, they were cavalier enough to make inappropriate suggestions of that in class). And several of them were really cute. And those who were cute KNEW they were cute.
BUT, and this is key, BUT, I knew that they were idiot teenage boys, and I also knew that every boy's fantasy is to bag the cute teacher (have a younger brother and probably heard too much on THAT particular subject). So it is TOTALLY and completely up to the teacher to NIP that in the bud (no pun intended). Prudie was totally out of line to do what she did, and worse, she knew just as much as he did what they were doing. She's "falling in love with her student???!!!" Please--come on. He was hot, and she was just allowing herself to act stupid.
On a separate but slightly related note, it pains me to no end that women teachers are the ones that seem to get COMPLETELY shafted by the media (I mean ripped to shreds for years and years...aka Mary Kay LeTourneau...not condoning it, but it's over, she did jail time), and in my teaching experience at EVERY high school I taught at, there was always at least one overt instance of a male teacher who married a female student previously (and somewhat suspiciously in the senior year) in his class. I'm sure there were some non-overt as well. Do we rip THEM to shreds? I have had female high school students complain about male teachers insulting their intelligence (don't worry your pretty little blonde head about doing this math problem), and complain that their boobs are stared at. We're not dragging them through the mud. What gives?
"On a separate but slightly related note, it pains me to no end that women teachers are the ones that seem to get COMPLETELY shafted by the media (I mean ripped to shreds for years and years...aka Mary Kay LeTourneau...not condoning it, but it's over, she did jail time),"
She only did jail time because she violated her parole by having sex with the student again with ONE WEEK!!!! She was BEGGGING to be sent to jail. And how about Debra La Fave who has done NO jail time and is under "house arrest" in the large new house (with pool) that some fool who married her provided AFTER her arrest and divorce? And what about Carrie McCandless who served ZERO jail time. Got probation. I could go on and on. Yet, there are guys in prison for LOOKING AT kiddie porn on the net. Not that I condone THAT, but THEY never laid a finger on a minor. And lets not forget all those Predators set up by Brian Williams. Fortunately they were "stung" before they could get to the fake minor. BUT they almost all did time. And the worst thing is that the teachers should get a heavier sentence than a regular citizen because they are given a position of responsibility for the child's welfare. "In loco parentas" . Meaning in place of parents. So forgive me if I don't cry for Mary Kay, who molested her promising, 12 year old art student Vili. She ruined his life. Don't hear about any art from him any more. He's just trying to cash in on tabloid and movie sales of their story. This is how MKL is being "ripped to shreds". By allowing these exclusive stories for serious money. And a young life derailed by sex with an adult IS the tragedy here. NOT these poor "hot teachers".
I agree - and think that's why it's so important that the story makes Trey 18. It's not illegal.
As for ethics, there are ethical problems on both Prudie's and Trey's side - he's actively pursuing a married woman, etc., etc. He is legally an adult.
Amazing, though, that in the society we're in - as in Austen's - people's minds are heavily caught up in legalities, even ones they have to make up.
I agree. 18 year old boys are bad in bed. If Prudie decided to walk over to him, she would've been severely disappointed.
sharePlus, she did the right thing and resisted him. She went back to her husband and never had sexual relations with him. Of course, I have not read the book...just going by the movie.
shareThis relationship was wrong and I agree insulting to high school teachers. But of course the student was "hot" so that somehow makes it okay. WTF? How is it this guy's making out with chicks in the middle of the library and no one notices but her. He was an awful actor (I couldn't do better I'm sure, but it's not how I make my living). Good thing he's handsome.
She deserved to be fired for her lack of sense. Of course her husband is made out to be such an ogre in the beginning to make you feel sorry for her and forgive her for being a pretentious little girl who pouts throughout her book club sessions, interspersing French in her I-know-more-than-you-about-Austen rants. Is it any wonder her husband prefered basketball?
Prudie and her husband simply were not believable together. They had nothing in common and were totally different kinds of people. Outside of Emily Blunt being totally hot, I couldn't see them ever being attracted to each other. She was much more natural with the student, who was eighteen by the way.
The Wookie has no pants.
Of course, he prefers basketball, after all, he did play at Wake Forest with Tim Duncan! :)
shareI found it very odd that she would be that stupid and unprofessional. When he started hitting on her, I would think she would be offended and very proper about it. Instead she seemed like a clueless young twit who didn't know what was happening. Come on. I didn't believe it.
Sure, there are dozens of female teacher scandals in the news the past few years, with the teachers having sex with even multiple students, but true to life as it unfortunately may be, I don't think this character would have even got in the car with the kid or "helped" him with his lines, putting herself in those positions.
I suppose it was supposed to be funny that she played the sophisticated quasi-European and was a "prude" based on her name, and yet she started to give in to some ridiculous temptation. It would have been better done as a fantasy in her mind. That I could believe, that she noticed his attention and entertained a thought, but did not act on it. I think that would have been a better way to do it in the movie.
I find the thinking here a little difficult to follow.
If you feel that this kind of student-teacher relationship should not be shown on screen, why stop there?
I've heard that some films depict violence - even murder.
We'd better have those banned right away.
I'm sure that there are lots of depictions of bad driving, reckless behaviour, drug taking, smoking, staying up late & answering back to parents.
Away with that lot.
I'm not sure what would be left though.
Perhaps I'm missing the point, perhaps it only counts if teachers are shown behaving badly.
P.S. How about driving instructors? Can they get a little naughty?
I also think that a lot of viewers are missing things about the characters.
This was a MESSED UP girl.
The "dog lady" was messed up in that she couldn't give herself to a human.
The geek guy was messed up in that he was a geek. :)
The Jimmy Smits character did a middle age crazy mess up.
The point of the movie to me was that stuff happens, people mess up, get messed up, etc. Everyone learns and moves on.
Rachel
Exactly! And the fact that she actually didn't go through with the affair has been left out of the discussion. I think everyone understands that it was inappropriate and unethical, but we also have to remember that movies are supposed to make you leave with something, whether it's a message or an image. You're supposed to learn from them in some way, shape, or form. This movie's core message is that everyone will screw up and everyone can bounce back from those mistakes if they realized they messed up and want to counteract it.
Now, if this was Hard Candy meets Notes on a Scandal, I don't think I would be saying the same thing. But there's a difference between those films and this one: Trey was 18. I'm not saying it's all right for a teacher to get involved with a student of any age (I am just a high school senior myself and I would never want a teacher striking up a relationship with me, no matter how good looking he was), but let's not freak out and make Prudie out to be a manipulative pedophile. The girl was emotionally messed up and a hot, hot, hot 18 year old was giving her the attention and connection her husband wasn't giving her (or she wasn't allowing him to rather). Is this something that people should stand for in real life? No. But this is a movie and Prudie redeemed herself by not taking the affair to the next level and trying to work with her husband to get their marriage back on track.
> If you feel that this kind of student-teacher relationshi should not be shown on screen, why stop there?
No, it just impressed me as out of character. Came out of left field.
Having been a teacher of young adults myself, I have seen a couple of similarly stupid impulses followed by other people, so I am very aware it does happen.
I guess I just don't understand people in general.
A similar thing happened in my high school, I won't say how many years ago! During senior year, our English teacher, who was 23 and in her first teaching job, had a relationship with an 18 year old senior boy. It happened toward the end of the school year and to be honest I'm not sure how much was fact and how much was gossip. But there was definitely something going on. The teacher's contract was not renewed and she moved away.
Then last summer, I went to my high school reunion, and the story came up. Several of my former classmates who are now teachers expressed disgust at the English teacher's actions and said she should have been fired and/or arrested. There was quite a lengthy discussion about it (the classmate involved was not present). Some people said that it was more likely the student had come onto her, not the other way around. Others felt it was not really wrong since he was 18.
I'm amazed that anyone in a high school even thinks they can get away with it. Teenagers love to talk, and especially, males love to brag to their buddies.
All I can do is quote George Carlin: "When a female teacher has sex with a male student, people call him a victim. I have another name for it: Lucky Bastard!".
Somebody needs a happy meal.
It was a poor choice by the writers, you'd think Prudie had never been through high school herself, apparently not having any idea what high school boys are like. Also, the hs boy wasn't made out to be any kind of contrast with her husband, he didn't give her the things her husband was deficient in, so what's the attraction?
It's one thing to be alienated from your spouse, it's another to ponder a hook-up that could land you in jail.
A better choice might have been another teacher, maybe a substitute teacher.
I bet you are a high school teacher... So the movie is also an insult for doctors, because a doctor also falls for her patient... You people are too stupid.
shareHow is it insulting high school teachers? o__O It was saying it happens, not to everyone. So.. um yeah. Weird post.
shareI agree. It happens at school, in any workplace. Inappropriate to a degree but it happens and I see no reason why it shouldn't be included in a movie storyline.
Remember, it IS just a movie after all.
Yoda: No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try.
He's hot! She's young... I say more power to them lol.
No but seriously, it's really wrong, but not illegal. I'm 21, and there are still some 18 year old guys I find COMPLETELY hot... I also have some 23 year old friends who teach in high school and nothing has ever happened with students.
But if you think about it, a 22-23 year old dating an 18-19 year old wouldn't be that big of a deal without the student/teacher dynamic.
What's the point of being a teacher if you can't hook up with all the hot young students. Ooh Baby..!
Get me a meeting with Spielberg.