MovieChat Forums > Carriers (2009) Discussion > Kate - completely superfluous character

Kate - completely superfluous character

posted 15 years ago by j-cameron22
65 replies | jump to latest

After watching this movie I was bewildered by the inclusion of Kate's character and suspect producer meddling to be the cause. I have no problem with her acting - she is a perfectly fine actor and a beautiful too. The problem is, her character adds absolutely nothing to film and actually ruins it to a great extent. I get the definite sense that the script didn't originally include her and she was quickly added in the final hour at the insistence of money hungry producers requiring a more bankable teen-friendly picture.
MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS AHEAD...
In the scene where Bobby is ordered out of the car, how much more impact would there have been if Bobby was the only girl in the car with them? Just the two brothers left alone.
Similarly, when Danny shoots his brother, the impact is lessened by the presence of Kate, her only justification for being there seeming to give him the gun to do the deed.
When she washes herself at the well it seems a blatant attempt at a Michael Bay style iconic shot and I'd bet good money that the Blu-ray/DVD will include that shot on the back when it's given a release.
Kate virtually has no screen presence throughout and the only time anyone acknowledges her is when they refer to her as Danny's 'girlfriend' and are then vaguely informed that she is in fact not his girlfriend. We are never informed how any of them know the girl.
Most crucially, the end scene where Danny reaches the beach and says "We made it" is pretty much neutred by the fact that she's there with him. Imagine, if he was alone and said "We made it". Now that would've been a tear-jerker and a half. No girl, no hope for recreation. Just one guy on a beach with his memories. Not surprisingly, Kate then conveniently disappears leaving Danny standing alone in the final shot. It's not like anyone can fight the case that she never really existed in the first place and was some kind of ghost/projection because as mentioned his brother actually acknowledged her in that one scene.
To be fair, I think this film was pretty damn good and a refreshing break from all the zombie clones out there but wonder how great this film might have been had Kate been excised from the whole thing.

--I do wish Imdb wasn't so riddled by bugs and popups--

[–] sf_fred 15 years ago

* Spoilers Present *

Let's give Kate some credit for playing her cards right. She ended up as the only person of the four travelers to unambiguously survive to the end. (Danny probably will too, depending on how the dog spatter works out.)

Starting out, she was the person least likely to survive. She had managed to escape her situation by finagling a ride from non-boyfriend Danny. The car driver and group leader was Brian, who would expect support from his girlfriend and his brother. None of Danny, Brian, or Bobby knew her well or were inclined to take her side in the case of a conflict. Stirring up jealousies or overt power struggles might cause the in-crowd others to dump her off on the side of the road, whether she were well or sick. She read Danny as being too unassertive for a successful alliance. She made the good choice to keep to herself and focus on getting out of this situation alive.

The others had the same goals too, but they had the baggage of wanting significant others to have an extra chance even if the circumstances were dicey. It was tough to pull the trigger or ride away. Even after Brian was discovered to be sick, Danny allowed him to ride in the back of the car to the next campsite - following his previous inclination to do so with Frank and Jodie. Kate had the role of reinforcing and legitimizing the hard, unsocial decisions while publicly seeming not to violate the social norms of the other three people.

Brian, Danny, and Bobby had no reason to believe they could phone anyone usefully. Kate had some hope of outside help. In part she probably hoped to be rescued from her three unreliable, volatile companions.

Although her character suffers from a lack of charm, objectively she stays focused on her goal of surviving in the company of strangers. She does not make mistakes, and she does not go overboard as the survivalists do. The other characters display normal relationships and normal weaknesses, which help us like them. She is alone and has to be careful. We may not like her, but we should respect her. Her story should interest us too.

[–] bigkabuto 15 years ago

For Danny apparently she wasn't nice company enough...i mean. At the end we hear him saying that he feels all lone, and is all alone...while he IS with Kate left.

[–] doldrums452 14 years ago

I liked Kate, because I see a lot of myself in her. I'm a survivalist, and I'd do whatever was necessary to stay alive too. I was hoping Brian and her would be the survivors. Danny just seemed like a dead weight.

From the ashes springs new life

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Moriarty88 14 years ago

i totally agree. i just finished watching it and she pretty much did nothing the entire movie. i thought she might of just been there so they had someone to kill off but guess not..

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In Your Box Office . com

[–] dalati 14 years ago

Very well written post, the best I've read in a long time on imdb. Kudos.

- Anwar

---
One man's sockpuppet is another man's freedom fighter.

[–] j-cameron22 14 years ago

Aww fanx Dalati :)

[–] tempestnam 14 years ago

I get the definite sense that the script didn't originally include her

............?

Why?

So, the movie would have made more sense with a triangle that wasn't a triangle?

Equal parings are the norm for most movies and TV series.

[–] j-cameron22 14 years ago

"So, the movie would have made more sense with a triangle that wasn't a triangle"

I'm saying it would have been more effective with a triangle that wasn't a square.
I don't think I could be any clearer on why I thought the character was deadwood. But you ask why I get the sense she wasn't in the original script? Because in every other way this is masterful storytelling. Good dialogue, pacing and with her excepted very richly drawn and sufficiently explored characters. It baffles me why someone with such capable writing skill would miss such a glaring fault in the script. A character that wastes valuable screen time while adding nothing to the film but a pretty face. In a dumb-but-fun popcorn-flick this might be acceptable but this film is better than that. It could have been even better

[–] tempestnam 14 years ago

I'm saying it would have been more effective with a triangle that wasn't a square.

I'm saying why would it need the brother at all either.

It doesn't make sense as a Triangle. Try to repeat the scenes with only 3 people, and then only 2 once they leave the girl.

They didn't explore the relationship between those two characters on purpose. That was part of the ending.

But you might note, the only thing that finally made him do something was her pushing him.

[–] j-cameron22 14 years ago

Forgive me but I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying there shouldn't be a brother at all? The brother was the main character. Where would the story be? What would happen to the scene shooting the brother? The whole beach back-story? Why doesn't it make sense as a triangle? Why didn't they explore the relationship between the two characters and how was it part of the ending?

[–] kadeskiss 14 years ago

"So, the movie would have made more sense with a triangle that wasn't a triangle"

I don't think I could be any clearer on why I thought the character was deadwood. But you ask why I get the sense she wasn't in the original script? Because in every other way this is masterful storytelling. Good dialogue, pacing and with her excepted very richly drawn and sufficiently explored characters. It baffles me why someone with such capable writing skill would miss such a glaring fault in the script. A character that wastes valuable screen time while adding nothing to the film but a pretty face. In a dumb-but-fun popcorn-flick this might be acceptable but this film is better than that. It could have been even better

I agree , the movie would have been much more interesting if it was a triangle instead of a square. I never felt that Kate actual belong in the movie. It would have been much more powerful,and conflicted if Danny realize he had to kill his brother, and be totally alone, than him killing his brother with Kate at his side.

Luv

Kades

[–] DrFong 14 years ago

To me there was great potential for her character to be a manipulator. It was briefly touched on in the movie, but not fleshed out enough. Seems like a bit of a lost opportunity for her character to matter one way or another.

[–] kadeskiss 14 years ago

I felt the movie would have been much more powerful if Kate wasn't there. Kate really shouldn't have been there in the first place, since she had no real connection to any of the people in the car. She wasn't Danny's girlfriend, she wasn't Brian's girlfriend, nor was she a friend of Bobby's. So she was pretty random character in the first place. The fact that Danny seem to be going along with everything she said, tells me that Danny was a follower. First he followed Brian's order,than he was following Kate's. I think it would have been better, if Danny had killed Kate, right before killing his brother.

Luv

Kades

[–] TemporaryAgent 14 years ago

She wasn't Danny's girlfriend, she wasn't Brian's girlfriend, nor was she a friend of Bobby's. So she was pretty random character in the first place.

You missed what she really was- a friend of Danny's.

The fact that Danny seem to be going along with everything she said, tells me that Danny was a follower. First he followed Brian's order,than he was following Kate's.

Why would he listen to Brian at that point? Brian was showing signs of infection and he was becoming increasingly violent.

I think it would have been better, if Danny had killed Kate, right before killing his brother.

You shouldn't pointlessly kill someone when most of the population is dead.

[–] subase 13 years ago

A friend doesn't persuade you to kill your own brother. Instead they do it for you. Just like Danny's big brother did everything for him so he would be spared the hard choices. That's love in sacrifice.

Kate was a cowardly POS.

[–] TemporaryAgent 13 years ago

By your logic, Carlson did the right thing by shooting Candy's dog and George did the wrong thing by killing Lenny in Of Mice and Men.

If you truly love somebody, you should be the one who puts him or her out of his or her misery. Danny was the one who had to kill Brian, not Kate.

[–] picarism 13 years ago

Kate really shouldn't have been there in the first place, since she had no real connection to any of the people in the car. She wasn't Danny's girlfriend, she wasn't Brian's girlfriend, nor was she a friend of Bobby's. So she was pretty random character in the first place.

I don't get this criticism. Are you trying to say that it didn't make sense for the other three to travel with someone they didn't know very well? If she's not infected, what's the problem?

Or, are you trying to say it didn't make sense from a story-telling perspective? If that's the case, then I disagree. I don't see the story working with just three people. For one thing, Danny wouldn't have killed his brother -- his arc would not have been completed, and the ending wouldn't happen, thereby changing the entire point of the movie.

Second, I think Kate had her own seperate and, imo, rather interesting, character arc. Your criticism -- that's she's an outsider and doesn't really belong with these people -- is kind of the whole point of her existence. She's utterly alone. She doesn't have any kind of meaningful history or camraderie with the others that she can fall back on if need be. But where else can she go? She has to be smart, calculating, manipulative.

As someone who has a tendency to "feel alone in a crowd," I empathize with her in ways that I don't with the others. I'm also rather unassertive just generally speaking and have used subtle manipulation tactics in the past as a way of gaining some semblance of control in situations where I had no real say in what was happening around me (you might think it's *beep* up for me to act this way, but, as far as I'm concerned, everyone has their flaws -- I'm just being more honest that most). Your mileage may vary, but it's easy for me to put myself in Kate's shoes, and that makes the story work better for me.

[–] subase 13 years ago

No, whos idea was it to drug their brother with the sleeping pills they found?. Who was eyeing the pistol the moment he found out his big brother was infected?.

Danny was fully capable of killing his brother, he didn't need Kate 'persuading' him. After all she's not even his 'girlfriend'.

Who pulled the trigger at the end? It was Danny and he didn't get any help from Kate. His character arc would have been complete.

She was a useless shoed in character. It's fine that you identified with her, but the film would have been stronger without her.

[–] kadeskiss 14 years ago

I felt the whole movie would have been more powerful without Kate. I think it would have been better if Danny had been alone,and had to make the decision to leave,or kill Brian knowing that he would be all alone. Plus, I really didn't like the character Kate,and wishes she had died earlier on in the movie. Hell, she was suppose to be a friend, but it didn't come across that way. It seem like she was just a girl he knew from school,that he didn't know well. They didn't come across as close friends.

Luv

Kades

[–] TemporaryAgent 14 years ago

The problem is, Danny wouldn't have killed Brian if they were the only people left. He gave Frank the gun, didn't want to abandon the Holloways, and was against Brian's murder of the two women.

[–] kadeskiss 14 years ago

The problem is, Danny wouldn't have killed Brian if they were the only people left. He gave Frank the gun, didn't want to abandon the Holloways, and was against Brian's murder of the two women.

That is where Danny would have been conflicted. Should he ,or should he not kill Brian? That would have been a harder question for Danny, since it would have meant being totally alone. However, with Kate ( who I felt shouldn't have been there at all) there,it was much easier for him to kill Brian.

Luv

Kades

[–] TemporaryAgent 14 years ago

The problem is, it would have been out of his character to kill Brian. He didn't want to kill complete strangers, so why would he kill his own brother?

[–] subase 13 years ago

gsbr misjudges Danny and Kate's inclusion made the ending weaker.

His big brother didn't want to DIE ALONE, that's why he is sticking around and being a pain in the ass. Danny didn't want him to die alone but the longer they stayed together the higher the chances of infection.

Danny by killing his brother was doing him a mercy and his big brother knew it. It was a hard choice to make but Danny would have been able to do it. At the end his big brother was basically saying he was proud of him.

Kate weakened the film because one is given the impression Danny was going to leave his brother to die because Kate told him to do that. Danny was going to leave his brother to die because he was a wimp, and it's only after his brother FORCES him to kill him, to take some responsibility, that he becomes a stronger person.

The inclusion of someone whispering into his ear to do that, weakens the entire character arc of Danny. And the ending too. He feels all alone but apparently he forgot he was with Kate, you know that really hot girl just his age?

[–] TemporaryAgent 13 years ago

First of all, would it have been too hard to actually reply to MY comment?

Now how do you know Danny would have killed his brother if Kate hadn't given him the gun? Danny was just staring into space.

Danny could have killed Brian without Kate. He's too weak. He needs somebody to teach him how to make the necessary survival decisions. That's Kate's purpose.

And Danny feels alone in the end because his brother is dead.

[–] subase 13 years ago

Well firstly unless Danny wanted to get into a wrestling match with Brian or Kate grew some balls and could actually shoot someone. Danny was going to kill his brother to get the keys.

And that's what Brian had planned from the start. Danny initially just wanted him to doze off and they'd leave him there (he drugged him with sleeping pills) but Brian forced Danny to face him, and not allow him to die alone.

Kate had no effect on the final outcome, unless you actually believe SHE would have shot Brian. (Like I said she's a wimp and couldn't even handle the ire and enmity of Danny, if she had shot his brother)

[–] TemporaryAgent 13 years ago

If you ever read Of Mice and Men, you would know that Kate should have not been the one to kill Brian. He was Danny's brother and it Danny was the one who had to kill him.

Danny protested every violent action that Brian committed. He was not going to kill his brother without someone urging him to do it.

If Danny wasn't present in that scene, Kate would have shot Brian. She had what took to survive. Without her and Brian, Danny wouldn't have made it to the end.

[–] kadeskiss 13 years ago

gsbr misjudges Danny and Kate's inclusion made the ending weaker.

His big brother didn't want to DIE ALONE, that's why he is sticking around and being a pain in the ass. Danny didn't want him to die alone but the longer they stayed together the higher the chances of infection.

Danny by killing his brother was doing him a mercy and his big brother knew it. It was a hard choice to make but Danny would have been able to do it. At the end his big brother was basically saying he was proud of him.

Kate weakened the film because one is given the impression Danny was going to leave his brother to die because Kate told him to do that. Danny was going to leave his brother to die because he was a wimp, and it's only after his brother FORCES him to kill him, to take some responsibility, that he becomes a stronger person.

The inclusion of someone whispering into his ear to do that, weakens the entire character arc of Danny. And the ending too. He feels all alone but apparently he forgot he was with Kate, you know that really hot girl just his age?

Exactly!! I agree with you an 100 percent. Kate's present weaken the film. It made it look like Danny was making his decision base on her.

Luv

Kades

[–] TemporaryAgent 13 years ago

If you want a character who actually does weaken a film, try Rita from The Vanishing.