MovieChat Forums > Fracture (2007) Discussion > Flaws I saw

Flaws I saw

posted 15 years ago by folsoml
20 replies | jump to latest

Let me be the first (a joke) to point out that there were numerous plot holes in this movie. The planets would have to have aligned for Crawford's plan to work. If any one thing goes wrong, the whole thing fails.

1. What if the initial cops on scene did not set up a perimeter around the house, and instead burst in and took him into custody?

2. What if Nunally was not the negiotiator who came to the house?

3. What if Nunally had not gone up to the house to negotiate face to face (real life negotiators don't do this), and instead did it over the phone?

4. What if Nunally knew this was the residence of his mistress, and did not involve himself in the negotiations process.

5. What if the two SWAT guys who went up with Nunally did not wait outside?

6. What if Nunally would not agree to put his gun down? Or would only agree to HOLSTER his own gun, instead of putting it down? Or what if he gave it to one of the SWAT guys outside instead of putting it down.

7. What if Nunally was able to keep himself calm when seeing his mistress shot, and did not allow for the guns to be switched back.

Crawford seems like a genius only because none of these things happened.

In the conversation Crawford had with Beachum when he spoke of finding the flaws in the eggs, he mentioned finding the flaw in Beachun (that he was a winner) and made it seem as though he would exploit that flaw to beat him. In reality, any attorney--winner or not--would have lost that case with the way Crawford was (miraculously) able to pull it off.

[–] P-K-One 15 years ago

Well, what makes you think he had no backup plan for any and al of those possibilities? Maybe there were layers upon layers we did not see?

1. Might be that it is standard procedure that run of the mill street cops don't burst into potential hostage situations.
2. As you said, Crawford was a genius. We can assume he worked that out beforehand (Who gets called? How are the schedules?)
3. He would have found some way to pressure or lure him in.
4. As far as I remember the movie (and it's been a while) he saw his wife use a fake name with Nunally. Why would he know the real house if he did not even know the real name?
5. Again, genius finds a way to pressure and manipulate. A lot is psychologie of the individual and Nunally could be depended on to behaving like he did.
6. Crawford might have changed his plan. Instead of the complicatd ruse he might have gone for the simpler "I have been set up" routine.
7. Psychologie of the individual. Reactions can be anticipated if you know the person.

And then, as I said, there might have been multible plans and we just saw one of them unfold. Maybe Crawford had bribed a cop to let him out of the perimeter if something went wrong with the plan. Maybe additional hints and evidence for the set up story had been planted beforehand but then Crawford decided not to use them so he would not risk overdoing it.

I think humanity should be wiped out and then we can give evolution a second chance.

[–] folsoml 15 years ago

He could have had back up plans, but I don't see how he could have planned for some of the possibilies that could EASILY have gone wrong.

1. If our local police department responded, they probably would have set up a perimeter. If our local sheriff's office came, he would have been arrested immediately.

2. I can't remember the city where this is set. How many negotiators are there? Surely there is more than one. What if another situation somewhere else developed moments before he set his own plan in motion, and Nunally got tied up on that one instead? What if Nunnaly got in a car crash while responding to this call?

3. There is no law enforcement agency of which I am aware that would have allowed such a thing.

4. I find it difficult to believe a cop would not have done any kind of snooping on a woman with whom he was engaged in an affair. Would he not have even run her car tag?

5. Crawford is such a genius that he has psycholigically analyzed ALL the cops who could possibly come to the scene to know how they will react?

6. This probably would have been his best defense if everything else broke down. I never thought it was very good for the prosecution in the end when they discovered she was shot with Nunally's gun. Tough pill to get the jury to swallow that her HUSBAND shot her with the gun of her elicit cop lover.

7. How much could he really know about Nunally watching him from a distance? Sure, maybe he did more surveillance than we saw, but we didn't see it. If anything, I think he would probably see that Nunnaly, as a hostage negotiator, would be trained to keep cool in stressful situations.

[–] paulnorris3 15 years ago

These are all if's, but's and maybe's not plot holes. You may as well argue that if Don Corleone hadn't gone to the fruit market himself he wouldn't have been shot and Michael would never have been the Godfather. If Ripley hadn't taken the job she wouldn't have met the Alien. If Kaiser Soze wanted to keep from everyone knowing what he looked like, why did he personally get involved to be seen by half the local police force. Oh, actually come to think of it I think that is a plothole.

[–] ottoman-umpire 15 years ago

Of course this is a movie with all the Tinsel-town licence that comes with it.

Crawford's plot would have worked equally well if he had two guns and simply hid the actual murder weapon. He had the time and he had obviously meticulously researched and planned this crime. He was a talented and successful engineer, smart, some say a genius, so devising ways and means of making the murder weapon ‘disappear’ ought not to have been difficult for him.

Remember that Beachum even suggested that Crawford might have tied the gun to helium balloons and floated it ‘clean outa there’.

The movie is made that much more interesting by the gun switch…that’s all.

"Sometimes I just think funny things..."

[–] folsoml 15 years ago

Crawford's plot would have worked equally well if he had two guns and simply hid the actual murder weapon.

I partially agree with you, only I think his plan would have equally failed if he had two guns. It really was not that big of a deal that they did not have the actual murder weapon. People are frequently convicted of murder without the murder weapon.

I'm aware that it's just a movie. There's no need to remind me.

[–] Mandy_Whitsands 15 years ago

It really was not that big of a deal that they did not have the actual murder weapon. People are frequently convicted of murder without the murder weapon.

examples?

[–] drb101285 13 years ago

Why did Nunally kill himself? Was it shame and despair over the situation of losing his lover, making a fool of himself in court, and the killer being acquitted? Or was he aware the guns were switched and he could never finagle his way out of an indictment/conviction (motive obviously established), thus having the crime pinned on him? Can't figure. It would seem he would have to know about the gun switch (thus, the utter hopelessness) to warrant such an extreme action; otherwise he's just a romantic, grieving, hot-headed schmuck...But if he knew about the gun switch ahead of time, why didn't he inform anyone?

[–] drb101285 13 years ago

[–] Mandy_Whitsands 15 years ago

4. As far as I remember the movie (and it's been a while) he saw his wife use a fake name with Nunally. Why would he know the real house if he did not even know the real name?

yes, but Crawford couldn't know that his wife never told Nunally her name

[–] nolanfincher 15 years ago

Doesn't Crawford address her as "Mrs. Smith" before he shoots her?

That would imply that he knows she did not reveal her identity to Nunnaly.

[–] nolanfincher 15 years ago

MY TAKE

1. What if the initial cops on scene did not set up a perimeter around the house, and instead burst in and took him into custody?

Ted has clearly set it up as a Hostage situation. There's no way cops are going to burst into the place not knowing what actually happened in there.

2. What if Nunally was not the negiotiator who came to the house?

Before Ted goes into the hotel his wife was staying, he calls the police and asks for Det. Nunnaly. They say that he'll be coming in at 6pm. So he knows he'll be the one coming in that night.

3. What if Nunally had not gone up to the house to negotiate face to face (real life negotiators don't do this), and instead did it over the phone?

Nunnaly probably did not intend to go in. He was invited by Ted.

4. What if Nunally knew this was the residence of his mistress, and did not involve himself in the negotiations process.

Ted knows his wife did not reveal her identity to Nunnaly. Remember when Ted calls his wife MRS. SMITH before he shoots her...

5. What if the two SWAT guys who went up with Nunally did not wait outside?

Nunnaly was trying to negotiate with Ted.. he knows Ted or any person who has created a hostage situation is not going to allow armed SWAT team to join the negotiator.

6. What if Nunally would not agree to put his gun down? Or would only agree to HOLSTER his own gun, instead of putting it down? Or what if he gave it to one of the SWAT guys outside instead of putting it down.

Nunnaly was the one who asked Ted to put his gun down first. Ted suggested they both put their guns down. Seeing that Ted is an oldman, Nunnaly would have thought there isn't much risk... so did not hesitate to put his gun down.

7. What if Nunally was able to keep himself calm when seeing his mistress shot, and did not allow for the guns to be switched back.

Ted was clever enough to drag her body to right below her picture.. so Nunnaly would immediately recognize her and snap.. seeing her in that situation.. Ted was spying on them from quite a few time and knows she was more than just a mistress to him..

[–] bobby_allen 13 years ago

The producers wanted to showcase their perfect murder but all I saw was plot holes so numerous like a sieve.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] wyattterry 12 years ago

I thought the twist was far-fetched as well. It's too unbelievable that things would be set up so perfectly for someone. It's more like Crawford isn't a genius, but can actually predict the future.

So Nunally just happened to be the negotiator to come through? So no one else even bothered to stay on watch while Nunally negotiated? So Nunally is so unfit for practice that he manages to leave Crawford unattended for so long that he has time to reload a gun and make the swap, without anyone else noticing? Not even when Nunally is a few metres away (is he deaf?) and police have surrounded the house? Why isn't anyone else keeping an eye on Crawford, anyway?

And before the crime actually happens, Nunally just leaves his gun lying around like that. Crawford didn't have to be a genius, because Nunally is an irresponsible idiot and it's a miracle he hadn't been fired yet. Although Crawford would probably have to be psychic to predict that all of the other things would happen.

Twists can make or break a movie. Good acting, but thought the twist was too unrealistic in this one for its own good (even given that it's a movie and movies are not supposed to be completely realistic).

[–] denise1234 12 years ago

Do they even have cop negotiators anymore?

Seems like nowadays they arrive all swatted-out and wait, wait, wait, until they can shoot em up or 'light up' the house or ram through it.

Nowadays, a totally 'take no prisoners' attitude too much.

ESPECIALLY in L.A.

"I'm here because I believe in a free Narnia."

[–] decoy000 11 years ago

i just mainly hated the samsung product placement.

...and that the characters didn't work out the gun thing earlier, it was very very obvious. Particularly when they found out that the killer had visited that hotel earlier that day. it couldn't of been clearer. I understand that this is part of the nuance of the film, crawford manipulating them subtly into over-looking stuff, but that was 'not running out of the path of the spaceship in prometheus' level of dumb.

[–] MrBuzz13 11 years ago

'What ifs' aren't flaws.

[–] Testpattern 11 years ago

by MrBuzz13 » Thu Oct 31 2013 00:42:54
IMDb member since September 2006

'What ifs' aren't flaws.

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle!

The looming question to me is that the original evidence has been tampered-with by the police.

The shell casings in the police evidence locker now match the bogus weapon the police originally confiscated in the attempted murder case.

Beachum cannot explain this. (if he attempts to, he has to admit prior knowledge of Nunally's police conspiracy -- result: mistrial!)

He has 1 bullet extracted from the now deceased wife, which ballistics will match to another bullet extracted from Lt. Nunally. And for all intents and purposes, shells found on the scene that inexplicably match a theoretically bogus weapon that the lab originally verified as having never been fired.

He cannot use Crawford's verbal confession to him, for if he chooses that route, he'd have to recuse himself of prosecutoral duties in order to be seated as a witness.

Which would be foolish, because he was frequently seen at the victim's bedside to the extent that a Temporary Restraining Order was requested and issued, which appears to compromise any ability for him to remain legally and emotionally detached from all others directly involved with the case.

A very strong argument could easily be made that if ANY ballistic evidence had been so complexly tampered-with after it was in police possession, then ALL of the physical evidence in the case could be similarly tainted.

"If people like you don't learn from what happened to people like me..." -Professor Rohl

[–] anordall 9 years ago

I think you have done it, Folsoml. You have demonstrated that this a third- or fourth class movie, tasteless, senseless and worthless. All the points you highlight are in fact ENORMOUS holes in the plot. Perhaps "5" is arguably invalid - the two SWAT guys were obeying orders from Nunally. But the rest is indisputable.