MovieChat Forums > Jesus Camp (2006) Discussion > Agnostics need to get off the fence

Agnostics need to get off the fence

posted 14 years ago by hardtruth
97 replies | jump to latest

Agnosticism in most of the people I have met that identify as agnostic, is being pretty sure there isn't a god but being afraid to say there isn't one in case there is and he punishes them.

That doesn't make any sense if you think about it. Why be afraid of something that doesn't exist? If you feel there is no god, if its what you believe then you should have the conviction to accept your own belief and not hold out in the fear that the boogeyman might get you.

The world starts to make a lot of sense when you place people that believe in gods into the same category as kids that believe in Santa Claus. You know it's false, but have the heart not to take something away that makes people feel better, even if it's not real.

The problems come when not only do they believe it's real, they start trying to change peoples lives around to support the false belief. When they fight wars over the false belief and murder people over the false belief. Then it goes from something innocent like belief in something beyond physical, into delusions in the face of facts. And deluded people can not be argued with, they can't be reasoned with, they believe their delusion and will continue to believe it ignoring all evidence that doesn't support it.

So what do we do? Do we send bible thumpers to a psychologist or smile at them and pat them on the head like a little kid talking about xmas?

One thing that doesn't help are agnostics. Make up your mind already because its worse to possibly believe in something if it benefits you, than to believe in something that isn't real.

Kodack

[–] GirlwonderReturns 11 years ago

Um, I'm not ON the fence. I don't "believe" that there is a god, and I also don't "believe" that there is not. So by your definition, I suppose I don't "believe in god." However, unlike an atheist, I don't have a categorical belief that god doesn't exist, because I don't fcking know. (If he does, it's probably too late for my sinning soul anyway, frankly, so self-preservation is not my motive.) My own personal feeling is that it's the height of arrogance and presumptuousness for anyone - devout or atheist - to unequivocally decree that "this is how it is." None of us fcking KNOW exactly how it is, and to believe that OUR particular belief system or point of view, out of all the plethora of them out there, is the correct thing - the "god's honest truth", if you will - is ridiculous. None of them are right on. Just because one doesn't state a firm belief in something - whether that something is the existence of a "supreme being" or the lack of one - does not mean that person is "on the fence." It means we aren't arrogant enough to tell anyone else that something we don't know is true, is the truth. And frankly, I don't like being preached to by atheists any more than I like it from the devoutly religious. Worry about your own sht.

Saying "I apologize" is the same as saying "I'm sorry." Except at a funeral.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] hardtruth 10 years ago

If the universe was created by intention, by a being, that being isn't a god, they are a creator. If I create something, that doesn't make me a god either. The gods of various religions are not real. Even if the universe happened with intent, that doesn't make anything in the christian bible true.

The reason the ancient greeks, and before them the ancient babylonians, and before them the even more ancient sumerians, etc etc back to pre-history, invented gods was as a placeholder for understanding. Nobody knew why a person might be fine one day, and drop dead the next. They didn't know what made the sun rise or what made crops thrive one year, and fail the next. We didn't know about diseases, mental illness, weather patterns, so it was easy to blame sick people on ill humors or devils, to blame crazy people on possession, to blame bad weather on foul spirits or angry gods.

Religion for human beings came from the god of the gaps. As we gain more knowledge, there becomes less place and less need for spirits, gods, and devils. The fact of the matter is human beings created gods as placeholders for knowledge. Gods didn't create us.

When the truth is too painful the weak will label it a lie.

Hard Truth.

[–] baran_erik 9 years ago

There's no hedging of bets . Theists and atheists are two sides of the same coin, so sure of their beliefs without an iota of evidence to back them up. How do you *know*, one way or the other? You don't. The only way to know is to die, and even then, if there isn't one, you won't know because there won't be anything after this life. Maybe.

"You know it's false". And you know this.....how? I realize it's pretty much impossible to prove something DOESN'T exist, but still, how do you KNOW? It's just your faith in your reasoning.

I laugh and shake my head at you both.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (19664510) 9 years ago

OP: You're an idiot.

[–] shandy8 8 years ago

I don't think you know what an agnostic is.

[–] HelloMyNameIsMrBurns 8 years ago

Are you serious?

[–] ProjectDamocci 8 years ago

Not to attack you, but I think either you don't understand what being agnostic means or you have simply met the wrong people.

Agnosticism to me is simply the realization that there is no proof that a supreme being exists, and there is no proof that a supreme being doesn't exist. It really is that simple. I am a man of science and I love everything that can be proven through scientific method. The reality is that science cannot prove the presence of a God, and at the same time it cannot prove the absence of a God either. So to me, why commit one's life to either end of the spectrum?

If I died and nothing happened afterwards, I that would be fine. And if I died and found myself before God and He asked why I didn't commit myself to believing in His existence, my answer would be, "Well, you didn't exactly leave a lot evidence that you exist. Sure, there's a book about you where you used speak in a booming voice from the sky 3000 years ago, but why don't you speak to the world from the sky anymore like you used to? What changed? Technology? Logical thought process?"

And I would be comfortable if He banished me to hell for that. THAT's the reason I am agnostic. I am not playing it safe just in case. There simply isn't enough cold, hard, concrete, irrefutable fact to commit oneself to either theism or atheism.

To me, it's lunacy to be either a theist or an atheist because there isn't enough to corroborate either stance.

In the absence of that which is not, that which IS, is not; - Unknown

[–] damocci (1514) 2 years ago

Wow, I don't recall making this post on IMDb.

That said, this image (https://images2.imgbox.com/82/a0/QU6AJxlU_o.jpg) accurately describes what an agnostic is. An agnostic is NOT a fence-straddling coward as the OP haughtily presumes.

[–] imjustasking (162) 4 years ago

Totally agree.Get off the fence you "agnostics".

[–] snepts (11123) 4 years ago

This is a long and old thread which I have not read, but the topic is interesting.
I don't know why anyone should question how anyone frames their religious doubt. There are no ramifications to saying "I don't know" and trying to fashion some argument otherwise seems like looking for a phantom argument for it's own sake.
It's like wanting to satisfy your own need for them to conform to what you want. We don't know how animals feel about god and we don't expect them to tell us. We should concentrate on things we should affect, not religious beliefs that should be kept personal.