MovieChat Forums > Starter for 10 (2007) Discussion > Any films in which the 'girly' girl wins...

Any films in which the 'girly' girl wins, over a rival?

posted 16 years ago by new_akkount
60 replies | jump to latest

So we all know that in most Hollywood films, the "girly" or overtly feminine girl loses out to a more intelligent/tomboyish rival. It's a long-standing tradition. From novels like "Jane Eyre," down to films like "Singing in the Rain," "Mean Girls," "Some Kind of Wonderful," "Sydney White," "Starter for 10," etc. etc., movies and TV almost always portray the prom-princess/head-cheerleader type (often blonde) as a vain, shallow girl who gets her comeuppance, while the supposedly "better" girl (the more "intellectual," less "obviously" beautiful plain girl -- often brunette) always triumphs.

The lesson in such films is that they male lead has to learn to look past the supposedly "superficial" popular goddess, and discover that he really loves the more meaningful/smart/wholesome girl.

Are there any films in which the opposite happens? Movies where the the guy chooses the more stereotypically feminine girl over her rival?

I can only think of a few, and their endings are major surprises, because they defy the usual Hollywood logic:

-"My Best Friend's Wedding" (Cameron Diaz's W.A.S.P. character is chosen over Julia Robert)
-"The Mask" (it seems as if the female reporter is being set up as a "wholesome" contrast to the blonde, but it turns out that she's actually the bad one)

Mind you, those aren't in the high-school setting where such female character contrasts are usually set, but they do defy the pattern.

Any others? Any films in which it seems as if the prom-princess/head-cheerleader type is being set up for a fall or comeuppance, but she wins in the end, or the guy chooses her over the usual Hollywood plain-Jane heroine?

A film in which someone like Alice triumphs over someone like Rebecca, and wins the guy in the end?

[–] hpavillion1 14 years ago

I can't think of many film examples, but there are countless television ones: Friends (Ross+Rachel), Scrubs (JD+Elliot), Gossip Girl (Nate+Serena, for a brief period of some time), and of course, Sex and the City (Carrie+Big)!

so yeah.

[–] Kyos 14 years ago

A very interesting discussion! I don't have much to add though, all examples that came to my mind were already brought up by someone else.

But, well, I'm almost in a state of shock to have stumbled upon an imdb thread with
a) an interesting topic
b) a constructive discussion
c) all in a respectful and polite tone

Nice!

[–] notaarebe 14 years ago

I just discovered one to add to the very, very short list of films that fit the O.P.'s criteria -- a movie called Wicker Park, a fascinating romantic drama in which the beautiful blonde Diana Krüger finally does, in the end, win out over a scheming, envious brunette, and the male lead recognizes his true love for the fair-haired beauty. Highly recommended.It's not set in a high-school milieu, but among twentysomething characters, but it truly upends the Hollywood cliché and reaffirms the kind of timeless ending that was once seen in Western literature and in folk tales (e.g. Grimm Bros. legends), but which Hollywood generally contravenes.

[–] JCoppick 14 years ago

Just my opinion, but I think the basic reason the less attractive girl usually wins is because everyone loves the underdog(or at least that's what hollywood believes).

[–] trendelle 14 years ago

Just my opinion, but I think the basic reason the less attractive girl usually wins is because everyone loves the underdog(or at least that's what hollywood believes).

Yes, but the O.P.'s point, and I think he's right, is that because Hollywood films always have the tomboy/intellectual less-attractive brunette win over the girly, gorgeous blonde, the blonde is in fact the TRUE underdog.

It's exactly what the O.P. is saying. He feels compelled to root for the popular, beautiful blondes because the films are always rigged for them to lose; so by rooting for the cheerleader/prom-queen blondes, he IS in fact rooting for the actual underdogs in these movies, because such characters almost always lose to their tomboy/intellectual less-attractive brunette rivals.

And I have to say, I feel the same way. Since the less-attractive brunette always always wins in the end, in the movies, she's not the actual underdog in the world of any movie.

[–] trendelle 13 years ago

As an addition to this thread, I just read elsewhere about a list that someone created on this very topic:

http://www.listal.com/list/movies-girly-girl-wins

I feel certain that it was inspired by the discussion in this thread at IMDb.

[–] ChocolateIsMyDrug 13 years ago

I haven't read through all the replies, so I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but Jane Austen's 'Emma' is a pretty good example of this. ***Below will be some pretty strong spoilers for Emma, so don't read unless you're familiar with the novel, or don't mind it being spoiled***

The heroine, Emma Woodhouse is herself the beautiful, popular, rich girl, and although her hair colour is not mentioned in the book, in 4 out of 5 adaptations she is blonde. She is vain, but not about her looks - she's vain about her (perceived) perceptiveness about people, and (non-existent) matchmaking talents.

Her foil is Jane Fairfax, a pretty (but less radiantly beautiful) brunette who is quiet and poor, but much more well-read, and a far more talented musician than Emma who is jealous of her for her seeming perfection.

Emma's love interest is a long-standing family friend, Mr. Knightley, who is handsome, popular and rich. He is not blind to her faults, but sees the goodness in her already, and the potential for more, and takes it upon himself to correct her when she goes wrong. Emma is often annoyed by his comparing her to Jane Fairfax, and encouraging her to befriend the other girl; her irritation is partly from jealousy and the fear that he may be in love with Jane.

Of course the story is far more complicated than the standard love triangle this implies, as Jane is never interested in Mr. Knightley, has a love interest of her own, and there's a male rival for Emma's attentions Mr. Knightley becomes jealous of, etc. But these are the similarities I found to the trope of 'girly girl wins over smart brunette rival'.

"I wish you to know that you have been the last dream of my soul."

[–] anechj 12 years ago

Clueless - the pretty, superficial-but-likeable main character wins over the intellectual- but-pretentious brunette.

[–] ChocolateIsMyDrug 11 years ago

It's funny you should say 'Clueless', as this is actually a modern adaptation of Austen's 'Emma', which is the example I offered in this thread!

"I wish you to know that you have been the last dream of my soul."

[–] NewCliches 12 years ago

A film in which someone like Alice triumphs over someone like Rebecca, and wins the guy in the end?

The whole point of a character like Alice, is to lose the guy to someone like Rebecca.

In a light romantic comedy, the Superficially Attractive Rival is there to temporarily distract the Male Lead from his One True Love. And then be dumped, when the ML realises that the OTL is his OTL.

She must be attractive enough to overshadow the OTL - otherwise she would not be much of a distraction. (And it takes a lot to overshadow the OTL, who is generally played by a movie starlet at the least...)

And she must have flaws that lead the ML to eventually prefer the OTL, and which will justify his doing so the audiance. The last thing anyone wants is for the audiance to take the SARs side, over the guy who dumped her and went off with the other woman. And of course, the flaw has to be something that will fit into a supporting character in a light romantic comedy. She cannot be a serial killer or a supporter of the Ku Klux Klan or anything extreme.

That is a rather tight set of specifications.

Which is why the SAR is generally a stereotypically drop-dead blonde with cherry lip gloss, clever enough to be popular and narcassitic enough to drive the ML away.

A character like Alice has to lose, because that is the only reason to write a character like her in the first place.

[–] Darkehmen 11 years ago

The whole point of a character like Alice, is to lose the guy to someone like Rebecca.

In a light romantic comedy, the Superficially Attractive Rival is there to temporarily distract the Male Lead from his One True Love. And then be dumped, when the ML realises that the OTL is his OTL.

The last thing anyone wants is for the audiance to take the SARs side, over the guy who dumped her and went off with the other woman.

Which is why the SAR is generally a stereotypically drop-dead blonde with cherry lip gloss, clever enough to be popular and narcassitic enough to drive the ML away.

A character like Alice has to lose, because that is the only reason to write a character like her in the first place.

Of course it isn't. The only reason it would be the "only reason to write a character like her in the first place" is if you simply planned to recycle the cliche.

And the fact is that, as the O.P. and several commenters in this thread affirm, in more than one of these films, some of the audience does end up taking the SAR's side -- precisely because her downfall is so blatantly telegraphed from the very first scene of the film and because her comeuppance has become such a cliche.

I usually (not always, but usually) end up rooting for the SAR for his very reason.

I'd love to see movies in which the SAR triumphs over the so-called OTL - and the SAR turns out to be the OTL all along. The examples that the O.P. cites (The Mask and My Best Friend's Wedding) are among my favorite films in the genre. I'd LOVE to see that turabout scenario play out in a teen romcom setting.

[–] NewCliches 11 years ago

The cliche is a cliche becuase it is often done. And it is often done because people often want to do it. And they often want to do it because it usually works on the intended audience.

You can occasionally throw a twist in. Bur surprises only work when they are a surprise. They have to be rare.

[–] Runie 11 years ago

not really sure how this relates to this as the girly girl was never into him- and this girly girl was actually possibly more intelligent. However yes it happens quite a lot where a man is involved with an intelligent women over a girly girl and then the girly girl wins- take a look at the majority of isla fisher's films

[–] Darkehmen 10 years ago

However yes it happens quite a lot where a man is involved with an intelligent women over a girly girl and then the girly girl wins- take a look at the majority of isla fisher's films

Specific examples?

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Darkehmen 10 years ago

She's also contrasted with her friend Twist (Katy Carmichael), who is pretty much the shallow vapid blonde stereotype.

See, now, based just on your description (because I haven't seen the show), if this Twist girl had been the one whom the male lead ended up with, over those other girls, that would have really been a cliche-breaker, per the O.P.'s comments about how rare such situations are.

(Though I have to say that looking up Katy Carmichael, she doesn't look pretty enough to really fit the vain, blonde dream-girl role, which is what the O.P. is really talking about as a character who is always made to lose, and who therefore it would be refreshing to see win.)

[–] Btrixkiddo35 8 years ago

Hmmm, I think the issue is that in real life, the opposite is quite the case. The girly girl often wins over the smart attractive witty lady. I have a friend who, while sweet, fits the ideal of girly girl blonde and I'm the plain boring brunette. She's very beautiful but the guys she guys aren't really anything great tbh. But she really marvels at her blonde hair. She knows it's a magnet for men. She even says stuff to her other blonde friends like "Well those type of men love blondes there (insert country of choice here)" it's hilarious because the other blondes (less pretty, less girly, less shallow-although she doesn't mean to be or sound that way) just stare at her blankly. They couldn't care less about a country where 90% of the men love blondes. They are the kind of women with hubbies that love them and do not care about a shallow concept like my friend. But I realize that she isn't as confident as she seems and that she's been hurt too. And that her, blondes have more fun mentality is a reflection of that. But I notice that sometimes the less girly girl gets the guy because she relates more to him and isn't as much of an enigma. She isn't just a bed buddy but a friend as well.

[–] JHT 10 years ago

Actually in historical films made in the middle of the 20th century it always seemed to be that the feisty sidekick girl who would often be a tomboy type who loved the hero deeply always seemed to lose out to the glamorous aristocrat with all her perfectness - it always annoyed me. Often the former would conveniently die in a tender scene so the pretty couple could get it on without complication.

Even more typical of the time was the married woman who had a dull husband and was on some kind of adventure, often with the husband, and fall into the arms of the rogue playing the hero role. There was never the complication of the husband having equal attractiveness.

[–] Treuburg 9 years ago

Actually in historical films made in the middle of the 20th century it always seemed to be that the feisty sidekick girl who would often be a tomboy type who loved the hero deeply always seemed to lose out to the glamorous aristocrat with all her perfectness - it always annoyed me. Often the former would conveniently die in a tender scene so the pretty couple could get it on without complication.

Examples, or it didn't happen.

(Examples is what the O.P. is asking for.)

[–] LadyU 10 years ago

I can only think of two, but not sure how these fall into this category as they are kind of ditzy heroines, you mentioned one already...The Mask but this is a situation that would never happen in reality because we all know that Ipkiss is batting wayyyyyy out of his league with Tina, and also Peggy turns out to be evil, ..and the Disney movie Enchanted, where the ditzy Giselle wins her man over intellectually superior but not as pretty Nancy.

I am the ray of darkness in your otherwise sunny day...

The Cake is a Lie

[–] JHT 10 years ago

Ah but Giselle is literally a fantasy woman. Her adorability is off the scale. As soon as she appears any rival is out of the running so even if Nancy was more spontaneous and prettier she does not stand a chance.