I am just so curious why it has that high of a rating? The hype is gone now, we all saw it and can be more objective. The films biggest weaknes is Harvey Dent and the ending. The story could work without it making it more coherant and the idea to blame the Dark Knight is silly... Considering they compleately undo it in TDKR. Does it deserve top 4 of all time?
The hype is gone now, we all saw it and can be more objective.
Just curious, is it your theory that, over time, viewers will come down from their initial highs about the film (hype-driven, according to you) and then go back on IMDb and change to their newly recalibrated ratings?
Is that a thing that people do? How does IMDb even calculate it if I change my initial rating?
and the idea to blame the Dark Knight is silly... Considering they compleately undo it in TDKR.
Well, would you expect them to undo it if it had been a good idea?
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I'm more concerned with the idea that the OP apparently bases his initial thoughts on a movie based on getting caught up in hype rather than basing it on the movie.
I also wonder if he has made similar threads on other highly rated movies such as 'The Godfather', 'Pulp Fiction', and 'The Shawshank Redemption'.
After all, the hype for those movies is long since gone so people should now have more objective thoughts.
Well 'Shawshank' never had any hype. But the point still stands.
I also wonder why other movies that had a lot of hype didn't achieve high ratings based on that hype.
This is all most peculiar...
Could it be, and I know this is a CRAZY thought, that people rate movies based on how much they liked the movie?
Yeah, I don't even relate to how that works. For me, movies that have built up my expectations (usually through trailers, less commonly reviews) and then don't live up to those expectations leave me disappointed, not hype-mo-tized into thinking how great it is until the spell wears off a few years later.
Unlike other films that released around the same time like Avatar and The Social Network, The Dark Knight is timeless. Avatar will be surpassed even by its successors when it comes to the visual feat it obtained (which to me just looked like the best looking video game I would have ever loved to play), and The Social Network can only fit within its time period (where even now it is turning near obsolete with Facebook not dominating the social network [ah, he said it!]).
Don't know why I chose those two films specifically, but TDK isn't bogged down by the kinds of things that they are bogged down by. Things like post-9/11 terrorism, crappy CGI, and the Nolan Batman films that came before and after it won't put a dent in what makes this film what it is and why we like it so much. Also, Heath Ledger still hasn't been surpassed as the best acted villain in a long, long time.
Its influence on comic book films and otherwise can't be ignored. Just did a quick, non-scientific Wikipedia search on the amount of films that have released in theaters with the work "Dark" in it ("Darkness" also qualifies) since the release of The Dark Knight in 2008. There have been 16 films that I could count. As a comparison, you'll have to go back to about 1990 to match the same number of films that released in theaters before TDK. I don't think that's just a coincidence.
It's going to hold up forever. I hope people see more of its flaws when Nolan really starts honing in on his craft in writing, directing, and even with his part in editing... but even the great actors who were in it are leaving The Dark Knight as a grand part of their entire legacy, even if it's not where they shined most. This isn't going anywhere fast.
** Rest in peace, Timothy Volkert (1988 - 2003) **
Also, Heath Ledger still hasn't been surpassed as the best acted villain in a long, long time.
Tom Hiddleston
Its influence on comic book films and otherwise can't be ignored.
Influencing other mainstream comic book movies to be dull to the point of morose isn't an accomplishment. MoS, BvS and SS have all been trashed for such reasons.
It won't hold up forever. The more Batman movies they do, the more they'll see The Dull Knight and The Dull Knight Rests for what they are, mistake filled, plot hole filled, poorly filmed morose movies.
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He is a great actor, no doubt, but to claim that his Loki is better than Ledger's Joker is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? He didn't nearly embody his character as much as Ledger embodied the Joker, Ledger went well past the point of acting, he became the Joker.
Yes. His role as Loki was MUCH more interesting and exciting that Ledger's Joker In Name Only.
I was bored by JINO. I didn't find him intimidating at all. I wondered why no one had put a bullet into his brain years before. His plan was way too complex and depended upon incredible luck to have ever gotten off of the ground. I didn't find "The Clown Prince of Crime" to be funny at all.
Hiddleston, on the other hand, had the whole range with his performances. He went from just being there, to being a little mischievous, to doubting his entire existence, to treason, betrayal, vengeance, begging for acceptance to desperation.
When he appears at SHIELD HQ in The Avengers the look he has on his face is creepy as h#ll. It was a look of lunacy. Same thing when he drops Thor from the helicarrier and when he's fighting Thor later. Plus, how he went from ranting to confusion to triumph on the carrier.
Then in Thor 2 he goes from desperate to arrogant to nuts.
The choice of Ledger was trashed right up until his untimely death. After that it was praised. People don't like speaking ill of the dead, so they were quite biased in how they viewed his character.
I liked Begins, but found the other two movies to be exceedingly dull and, especially TDKR to be filled with huge mistakes, stupidity and poor film-making.
Yes. His role as Loki was MUCH more interesting and exciting that
How? Loki's character (in movies, of course) has always been bland and weak. He lacks depth and motivation. The only reason why he is so popular is because: A) People like you simply piss all over their paints every time when they see cutesy face of Hidleston. B) Out of all horrible MCU movie villains so far, he sucked the least (which doesn't say much).
Ledger's Joker In Name Only.
But Ledger's Joker was way more accurate to the comics in his portrayal than Hidleston was to Loki, right? You do know that Loki was never a petty twat with weak motivation with sympathetic nature. He was bloodthirsty, pure evil, and unlikable And he never had cutesy face. He was not attractive at all. Comic book Loki had rapist face. But since you don't know the comics, it's no surprise that you liked that squirt-machine so much. There's a reason why he gain the biggest amount of popularity among horny teenage girls that love writing yaoi fanficks.
I was bored by JINO. I didn't find him intimidating at all.
But you found Loki intimidating? A spineless loser that was beaten down by Hulk like a cheap doll at the end of the Avengers?
I wondered why no one had put a bullet into his brain years before.
The same question can be asked to the comic book Joker, who's been around in comics way longer than Ledger was in The Dark Knight. Will you also address this point to comics? I wouldn't be surprised if you did, considering that you hate the source material with your full heart.
His plan was way too complex and depended upon incredible luck to have ever gotten off of the ground.
So you hate Civil War, I guess? Because if you have problems with villains that are too dependent on perfect planning, Civil War is the movie that just falls flat on its face once you start picking apart all the nuances of Zemo's plan.
I didn't find "The Clown Prince of Crime" to be funny at all.
Did you find the scene from Killing Joke where it's implied that he raped Barbara Gordon to be funny? Or when he skinned one guy alive in a strip bar?
Hiddleston, on the other hand
Is the most overrated, overpraised villain in movie history. Not only is he superbly bland and one-dimensional, but the main reason why he gain such popularity has nothing to do with the character himself. It's just so happens that the actor who played him is very attractive (not for me, since I'm straight). Loki is not intimidating, interesting, profound, or even fun. He just sucked the least, but it doesn't say much, since I truly believe that MCU villains will go down in history as a purest example of how not to make a movie villain if you want him to have an actual character instead of being characterless punching bag with weak motives.
had the whole range with his performances.
Such as? Being one-dimensional punching bag for a Hulk and being the main source of inspiration for hundreds and hundreds of terrible gay-incest fanfictions from horny teenage girls, and hundreds and hundreds of disgusting yaoi art? Yep. That's a great performance, do'!
He went from just being
One-dimensional twat with weak motivation to being... One-dimensional twat with even weaker motivation. EVOLUTION!
When he appears at SHIELD HQ in The Avengers the look he has on his face is
Laughable? Since I laughed out loud when I saw that scene. That scene like illustrates, "What, you thought you'll see a complex, multi-layered, non-mustache-twirling villain in this movie? Bah! Idiots!"
Then in Thor 2 he goes from desperate to arrogant to nuts.
I wish if I could say something to disagree with your point, but Thor 2 is such a horrendously bad and forgettable movie, I don't remember single thing from it, so I can't really say anything about this. I don't think I even saw that movie more than once. I think I saw Iron Man 3 even more times, and I hate that movie as much, if not more.
The choice of Ledger was trashed right up until his untimely death.
Didn't he died before people saw The Dark Knight? I know that you probably have mental retardation, but can't you at least try to make a rational point? People trashed Ledger before they saw the movie. After they saw the movie, they loved him, because they weren't expecting him to be as great as he was. They thought he will never touch what Nicholson did, and Ledger whooped the floor wit Nicholson.
Your retarded point says that people at first hated Ledger when they saw the movie, but after he died, they all started glorifying him. Your point is retarded for main reason: Ledger died BEFORE the movie. People did not like him as Joker solely based on their predetermined perception of what he might be. Not on what they actually saw in the movie afterwards.
After that it was praised.
Because he was great in that role, duh.
People don't like speaking ill of the dead
That's probably why Paul Walker is now considered one of the best actors that ever lived, right? Oh, wait, he's not, since he was never that good of an good actor, while Legder always was. In this case, it doesn't matter if you're dead or alive. If you were a good actor, people will remember you as a good actor regardless of your death. If you were never a good actor, not many people will pretend as if you were.
so they were quite biased in how they viewed his character.
If that is true, tell me, why people hated the last few films with Robbin Williams that came out shortly after his death? The Night at The Museum Three was slammed by critics and auidence alike, despite the fact that it had very sentimental moment that's clearly been added to the film after the death of Williams. No one was biased against that movie. Why? Tell me, please. Maybe it's because it was not a good movie, hmm?
I liked Begins, but found the other two movies to be exceedingly dull and, especially TDKR to be filled with huge mistakes, stupidity and poor film-making.
You've already said this in your original response. Do you think that by repeating the same retarded argument twice you will make it more valid?
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Not only are they wrong, they're completely biased and yet neither of them would ever admit it. There should be a Marvel vs. DC board for these idiots.
The future is in the hands of a man who has none.(As in no future, as opposed to no hands.)
I mean, other than having read the comic books for years and years.
You didn't know who were Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams when I asked you on one topic about them. Those two people are to Batman what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are to Fantastic Four.
Ledger's JINO was boring and annoying. Loki sucked nuts.
Disagree with Ledger, but agree about Loki. He was mediocre villain, as any MCU villain.
Sorry you are so butt-hurt about that
The guy who always name-calls people for their opinion says something about butthurt.
but it is come to be expected from DC fanbois and Nolantards.
Congratulations, dummy! You just pissed all over yourself twice. First, didn't you say in your fist sentence that you've been reading Batman comics for years and years? Doesn't it make you a DC fanboy as well? Second, by calling people "Nolantards" for their opinion, you proved that if someone is butthurt around here, it's definitely your ass. reply share
You haven't read *beep* You do realize when Joker was first created, he was a MUCH darker, and more depressed character who wanted to show people's dark sides. Of course, DC felt pressured after a while because kids started reading comics, so they made him more kid-friendly using toys and being more comedic. In the Killing Joke (the greatest Joker story of all time), Alan Moore brought back that dark, depressed and *beep* up character that he was originally intended to be and if not for companies wanting to make more money by appealing to wider audiences, he would still be like that. Ledger's Joker was a near perfect representation of that version, so you saying "He was only Joker by name" shows how *beep* clueless and ignorant you are.
You are in complete denial, and spend way too much time on these message boards.
Re: Why rated so high? by azza16235 » 1 hour ago (Sat Oct 1 2016 22:54:32) IMDb member since May 2014
You haven't read *beep* You do realize when Joker was first created, he was a MUCH darker, and more depressed character who wanted to show people's dark sides.
This is true enough and it's also true that justanicknamed doesn't have any substantive knowledge of the source material or of the characters.
That being said...
Of course, DC felt pressured after a while because kids started reading comics, so they made him more kid-friendly using toys and being more comedic.
Kids were always the primary readers of comics. From day one the primary audience was children. The Joker did become a lighter more comedic character over time but it wasn't because kids started reading comics it was due to simple familiarity, public pressure, and the eventual adoption of the Comics Code that outright banned many of the actions that the pre-code Joker engaged in.
In the Killing Joke (the greatest Joker story of all time
Maybe...
It's certainly not at the top of my list although it is a great story.
Alan Moore brought back that dark, depressed and *beep* up character that he was originally intended to be
Utter nonsense...
It was Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams who brought back the 'darker Joker' in 'The Joker's Five Way Revenge' from 'Batman' #251 published in 1973. That version of the Joker is the version that appears in 'The Killing Joke' and has appeared in most Joker stories published since 1973.
Ledger's Joker was a near perfect representation of that version, so you saying "He was only Joker by name" shows how *beep* clueless and ignorant you are.
You might need to see a doctor for how much your butt hurts.
The Dull Knight is completely over-rated as was Ledger's performance as JINO. Had he not died, people would have been honest about it and most of the people raving about it wouldn't have even seen the movie.
Gotta love the double standard, though. Every time someone shows appreciation for Batman killing the bad guys, as every other action hero does, they're wrong because Batman never ever kills. If one tries to back up his preference referring to the original and other incarnations in which Batman does kill, apparently that doesn't matter because that's not the more popular version of the character most are familiar with, as that's the version that matters and all directors that refused to portray that version of Batman and had him kill the bad guys - meaning, all but Christopher Nolan... most of the time... - are wrong and have disrespected the source material. However, every time someone complains how Nolan and Ledger's take on the Joker has next to nothing to do with the more popular, clownish version of the character most are familiar with, those people are ignorant otherwise they would know that the original version of the character was less clownish (although still far removed from Nolan's type, though) and that's the version that matters, not the more popular one. You just can't win, can you?
You mean that one-dimensional, sapless twat with weak motivation and zero depth? Just because he sucked the least out of all terrible MCU villains doesn't mean that he's good.
Influencing other mainstream comic book movies to be
Well-written, loyal to the source material, clever, ambiguous yet very grounded, sophisticated, and all the other things that make for a great comic book movie.
MoS, BvS and SS have all been trashed for such reasons.
Suicide Squad definitely was not following the formula of The Dark Knight trilogy. It was definitely more like an average MCU movie. And, as expected, it sucked just like an average MCU movie.
It won't hold up forever.
Yep. That's why MCU should stop beating this dead horse and should start making their movies more loyal to the comics and more sophisticated.
The more Batman movies they do
It doesn't matter how many movies they do. The quality of the movie is not dependable on that. The Dark Knight trilogy had: sophistication, ambiguity, conceptuality, and characters with existential conflicts. I know that you don't like when comic book movies try to be above average action schlock, ala Iron Man 3 and Thor movies, but it doesn't mean that just because you don't like it, it means that it's bad.
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Not every plot point is meant to be permanent in movies, I hope you realize that. They undo it in TDKR, and the city saw Batman as the true hero, not Dent.
The Dark Knight is a great movie in my opinion and may be among my favorites. But the fourth best movie of all time? Only after the first two Godfather movies and Shawshank Redemption? Definitely not.
"Better to be a king for a night than a schmuck for a lifetime"
The Dark Knight is a great movie in my opinion and may be among my favorites. But the fourth best movie of all time? Only after the first two Godfather movies and Shawshank Redemption? Definitely not.
Stellar insight. You should probably start a thread to that effect. It is Sunday, after all...we're overdue.
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