If it is how can you tell? There's definitely a subtext to the relationship between these guys as to whether it's homosexual or not is up for debate-which is always a strength in my book--but is it talking about the disconnect that exists between us all? Or just between these two characters?
sharewhy is everyone so stuck on this "homosexual" aspect of the film. i didn't pick up on it at all. is that me being pretentious or simply more thoroughly involved to worry about such a minor detail.
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why is that gay?
there is nothing gay about a back rub.
the fact that you read such gay subtext into may say more about you and your fears then it does the actual act itself.
good luck in life.
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No, SorcererForChrist, it isn't--you're just a homophobe. No worries, maybe you'll grow out of it. You're just a philistine who isn't capable of understanding this really quite simplex film, unsurprisingly.
It SEEMS gay at first, which is what made the one guy so uncomfortable at first. There's an obvious tension between the two--Kurt speaks his mind and is unafraid to express himself, while the other is very tense and is afraid to tell people what's on his mind.
These are just two old friends trying to reconnect. Kurt has just about had it with the silence by the end and just wants his friend to relax. So to regain a connection, he simply gives his friend some affection. This affection is relayed through a backrub which in itself is not threatening unless you project your own fears onto it. In a Russian bathhouse, do you think THOSE guys are afraid their masseuses are homosexuals? No. It's just that America is super homophobic in general.
I'm not at all surprised some people would think Kurt is gay for showing physical affection for his friend. It's too bad, really, that so many people are so close-minded. Especially those purportedly being "ForChrist." What does that moniker mean? --that you have (dare I say!) affection for a man?!?!
Grow up...
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yeah i thinkk it was supposed to take him by surprise. it just shows their disconnect even more. nah, not gay. sometimes people do things that you may consider gay but they don't. I basically feel thats what it is.
Discovershare
http://www.orlickenterprise.com/
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They're definitely not gay. There's a scene earlier in the film where Kurt asks if he can sleep in Mark's tent. Kurt is very stoned at this point and he's very uncomfortable after he asked. He got a little paranoid. He even rambled on about how the dog would be in the tent too so it wouldn't be just the two of them and then he slipped and said "she's a girl". This showed that Kurt is definitely straight.
By the time the massage happens, we know Kurt is straight. That's what makes the massage so moving. Kurt sets aside his fear about looking gay because this is his friend and his friend was clearly stressed out.
OK, having homoerotic subtext doesnt make the characters gay or not gay. It just means that there is homoerotic subtext. The massage scene has homoerotic undertones. We are bound to see them, and to at least cast our thoughts in that direction for a second.
I dont necesarily think the characters are gay, but the above evidence against it is bogus. That Kurt wants to sleep in a tent with a female dog, does NOT make him "defnitely straight". If anything, it shows that he is uncomfortable sleeping in the tent with another male because he is either straight and afraid of seeming gay, or because he is gay.
this thread makes me wonder if anyone here understands what 'pretentious' means. a movie is pretentious only if it pretends to be something that it is not. for example, someone might argue that jean-luc godard's films are pretentious because they pretend to offer deep insights into the nature of human relationships when, in fact, his characters and dialogue are fueled by irony.
even if this film contains some homoerotic subtext (which i think it does), that alone does not make it pretentious.
I thought the brutal rape scene was unnecessary and the carnal activity with the dog quite pretentious.
I thought the landscape was very lovely.
i just finished watching this film. nothing seemed gay until the backrub, and then i added it up. first of all, i think i could give a backrub to a close male friend, my brother, or even my dad, and it could be played for simple goofing around, affection, or sincerity. granted, it wouldn't last very long, but it's plausible.
the director sent two obvious signals though. the guy who was not will oldham acted way too awkward, and then the extended shot of his wedding-ringed hand untensing and falling into the bath was a bit much. pretty unsubtle.
this led me back to the first scene where his wife was uncomfortable with him going on the trip: was it because she was a bitch or because she knew of a secret history between these two? and also the two-man tent dialogue...
regardless, it doesn't matter, because the film was awkward, pretty dull, and will oldham trying to interact with the common folk (especially the tall mush mouth at the end) was, as the OP stated "pretentious."
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You people are incredible!
Can't you feel any of the flow in the movie, what it's about? The music, the theme, the mood. What the hell? The backrub fits perfectly into the overall theme, and yet people HAS to focus on whatever minute homoerotic tension there might be between them. I mean COME ON. If there was any point to them being homosexual, or even Kurt being homosexual, why hide it in plain sight like this? Think about it, there's no function to such a relationship within the movie, ok? The movie isn't about their sexuality specifically, it's about an old friendship that somehow got lost in time, it's about people changing, it's about the spirituality of the forest, it's about how you can create moments, it's about everything BUT sexuality (in other than a general way, where everything might be about it).
What is it with people and their fear of everything that aren't themselves? Can't you TRY for once getting into a different frame of mind, if only for a second? Is it really that hard? And I'm not saying that you essentially have to be a homophobe to see the movie in this way either, I'm just saying, what's the deal with your focus? Can't you try to look at the world from a neutral perspective where stuff like this doesn't overshadow everything else, where you don't have to look down on people who doesn't desperatly try to fit in? Ok, you think they were gay, so what? What else? Does it change the rest of the movie? Is that the only theme? What else do you think and feel about it?
It's a portrayal of two specific people in a specific time and place. Did you stop to think that the actions in themselves were controlled by something bigger than them? Did you stop to think maybe there's an atmosphere and a mood to be experiencing here? An emotion perhaps? It might be a learning experience for some, but come on, if all you have to say about a movie like this is, «backrubs are gay», then just go do something else, why did you even bother seeing this movie? Do something that engages you, and don't post on a message board about completely uninteresting things. If you're obsessed with anything gay, I'm sure there are message boards for that...
How can anyone think this film is pretentious???? I can't think of the right word to describe a film like this that has nothing to say on its own but that inspires the viewer to think a lot about things... "transparent" or something like that? I dunno... Anyway, this movie forces absolutely NOTHING on us, no ideas, no messages, nothing. It's all up to our interpretation, our reactions to it.
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These replies are HILARIOUS. Really proved how pretentious it is...and the people who watch it.
A guy giving a naked guy a back rub in a hot spring is sorry...gay.
Yeah, it's a gay scene. The whole movie has this homosexual subtext where one man is clearly attracted to the other one and jealous of his pregnant wife. It's pretty obvious because the next shot is of the married man's hand with his wedding ring in the middle of the screen. His hand slowly dips into the water as the bearded gay man massages his shoulders and his wedding ring disappears. It's supposed to be symbolic.
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