MovieChat Forums > National Treasure: Book of Secrets (2007) Discussion > Plot holes, mistakes, and general stupid...

Plot holes, mistakes, and general stupidities!!! (a list for fun)


I *LOVE* this movie, but sometimes it's fun to just look through our favorites and find what's wrong with them (like in Harry Potter, one of my favorite book series EVER: why can't he see the thestrels in his first four years at Hogwarts? Why did Harry's father come out of Voldy's wand before his mother in Prior Incantatem? But I digress ;-)

This board really took off over on Andromeda Strain, so I thought we should try it here!

This is a list of plot holes, mistakes, and general stupidities we found as we watched (and rewatched) the movie. No criticizing, getting angry, or correcting the list please: this is all for fun!

I'll start:

1) During the car chase in London, Riley had his MacBook, which has a webcam in it, so why bother running the red light? Why not just take a picture of the plank with his webcam?

2) How does finding the city of gold prove innocence? He still could have been in league with the KGC!

3) with the Lincoln assassination scene: In reality, nobody heard the gun go off. People were laughing too loudly (and Booth knew to shoot him then because he was an actor and was familiar with the play).

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1) During the "car chase" there were no cops present
2) Inside the Oval Office, Connor had no problem with Gates going over to the resolute desk by himself

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1) true scientists would not hesitate to postulate that their ancestors could have been part of an assassination plot. cage seems horrified to even consider the possibility as does his dad. it's like the screenwriter has no idea how scientists are supposed to think.

2) wood chip#1 was tossed in river needlessly. they could have tossed the chick's purse and they wouldn't have known the difference.

3) bat-boy or whatever the sidekicks name was is supposed to be boy genius but he can't follow a conversation and figure out that they were talking about cage's parents.

4) the president of the u.s. was an intelligent, honorable man. come on now is this sci-fi or what?

this movie was a complete fking waste of time and i feel dirty just having wasted the time sitting thru it. could they make the soundtrack any more insipid with the "building orchestra" excitement music we hear in every fking holywood movie? what sht hollywood puts out these days. i'd be ashamed to have my name anywhere near this sloppy mess.

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I feel you must return, making note of our creator's bilaws...

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He's a historian and treasure hunter.

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this movie was a complete fking waste of time and i feel dirty just having wasted the time sitting thru it.
And yet you choose to continue wasting your time talking about it?

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not all scientists would believe that there ancestor was a traitor especially if said scientist has an intense belief in his ancestors

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"2) Inside the Oval Office, Connor had no problem with Gates going over to the resolute desk by himself "

Haha, seriously.

"Let's look for the earring... in this area where we never even walked over to..."

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Traffic in London is generally gridlocked, a car chase would be impossible.


Call me cocky, but if there's an alien I can't kill I haven't met and killed it yet

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The gold city was supposedly built by the Olmec. The Olmec lived in the area from Central Mexico into some reaches of Central America. Judging the distance between the Black Hills and Mexico it is very unlikely that the temples belonged to the Olmec.

The temples looked Mayan in design.

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9) Someone mentioned this on another thread: you can't visit Buckingham Palace in the spring.

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The supposed expert Gates said the wooden plank looked like Mayan or Incan writing. The Incans didn't have a written language.

In the ending cave scene, they could have just floated up back to the little room with the water wheel again as the water depth rose. That room was dry when they got there, so that was the high water mark.

Gates takes many cell phone camera shots throughout the movie, yet apparently the only cell phone in the car during the dramatic "run the red light" scene was broken.

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if they had floated back up to the other room, they still would have been stuck- there was no way out backwards, which is why they had to find the exit in the "treasure" room :)

but i am really annoyed by the fact that we actually dont get a reason why gates didn't kill booth

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Yes, but Ben's mom led the expedition to get the treasure out. They drilled holes to get trapped miners out -- they could have done the same for Wilkinson.

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Actualy yes there is a way back and they didn't even need to float up with the watter. All they had to do is go back the way Ben's parrents came in and they all would have been alive and well. But apperently in sych a situation one doesn't stop and think about doing the most logical thing in order to rescue himself.

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Are you completely daft? They all started out at the same point, the entrance where the way out had been completely blocked. Had they followed the reverse way the parents went they would have been back at square one again.

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49. The French police interpret the writing by Laboulle on his "Lady." They state the date as 1876. But the cipher that led to Laboulle's Lady was written in or before 1865.

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Off topic but for the harry potter thing

It was explained by jk that he could not see thestrals because he never actually saw his parents die. He was out of the room when his father was killed and in the crib when his mom was killed. All he saw was green

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"49. The French police interpret the writing by Laboulle on his "Lady." They state the date as 1876. But the cipher that led to Laboulle's Lady was written in or before 1865."

Glad to see someone else noticed this one!

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Being locked in a room you can't exit because the door's jambed shut...not exactly alive and well. And, since they both started at the same spot, and both worked down to the same level below ground, it's not exactly a stretch of the imagination that ma and pa's tunnel was at some point filled with water as well, since they didn't reunite until they went under the water level.

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lol, they're not trying to prove anything about lincoln's assassination, other than that Great grandpappy Gates wasn't involved. They explain in the first scene with Ben Gates that pappy Gates was a civil war hero, and his actions stopped the confederacy from finding a huge treasure, Ed harris' character shows up and says that he was part of the conspiracy, Ben goes to prove that pappy Gates was in fact the hero they proclaimed he was. Only reference to Lincoln is that they claim Booth approached Gates to get the translation on the night he assassinated Lincoln, and Gates burned those pages the same night.

The president tells Ben when they get out of the tunnel that he can't stop the manhunt, as their conversation didn't happen, the book he told him about "does not exist", and unless he can discover whatever it is he's searching for, he's S.O.L. Is a definite strain, but not inplausible, given the entire strain of the movie.

Advertising in movies is about as common as it gets. You want a plot hole, how is it that every person in the movie has the same brand of phone....or every car they highlight in a chase is the same brand of car.....everyone from both parties just happens to have aquafina....etc etc.

THE PRESIDENT KNOWS WHAT'S ON PAGE 47. HE'S ASKING FOR HELP. How is that not clear as day? How else would he know to ask about it, if he doesn't know what's on the page???

It's absolutely amazing how many of these "plot-holes" are because people don't pay enough attention to the movie. If you're geek enough to get on a website and post on a forum about something, you're geek enough to actually pay attention and look up what you're asking.

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Fifty-something) The inscription that Gates decodes from the Booth diary in 1865 leads to a statue that wasn't built until over a decade later, which in turn makes reference to a pair of desks made from a ship that wasn't de-commissioned until 1880.


"Prophecy is a guess that comes true. When it doesn't, it's a metaphor."

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You're all wrong. If you look it all up it actually makes sense.

Laboulaye's plans for the Parisian Statue of Liberty were made public in 1865, the same year as the cypher was written. In other words, he planned it before then. The cypher leading to the statue is explained.

The desks were actually made in the late 1850s to early 1860s. Malcolm Gilvary was hired to turn the Presidential desk into a hiding place before it was sent to America in 1880. He also turned the British desk into the same thing at the same time. The Queen informed Laboulaye of the plans to turn the desks into hiding places in 1876, and the inscription was made on the statue 13 years before its inauguration and 4 years before Gilvary was commissioned to do it. The clue trail is explained.

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How could Ben's great-grandfather have killed Booth? He was killed by the KGC seconds after he uncovered the plot to kill Lincoln. Are you saying Ben's 10-year old grandfather should have done it?

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SPOILERS

*We are told the City of Gold is near Florida whereas it turns out to be in the Black Hills.
*How would treasure in Dakota help the South?
*Why can't the President look up p 47 himself?
*"Mt Rushmore was a cover-up". Why? Why would Calvin Coolidge not want to make the lost city public?

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what's more, the olmec probably didn't have a written language:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101960701-136151,00.html

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I'm with you on #2. I don't understand how finding the city of gold proves innocence. I mean his name was still on the list of conspirators.

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My guess is Wilkinson forged the name on the note to get the Gate's attention (he said something to that effect). The historian who broke the news was in cahoots with Wilkinson, so you have credible expert opinion. My guess is either the historian recanted or the note was proved to be forged.

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number 11 is wrong. If they had floated back up to the other room then they would all be trapped and die.

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at the end bens cell phone still works after it being in that much water

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because the list wasn't a list of conspirators instead it was a list of experts that Booth and his buds made to aid them in their quest for the gold. "Are you Gates, i hear your good with Puzzles" or something like that.

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But the entire plot of the movie is that Wilkinson claimed that it WAS a list of conspirators who plotted the assassination of Lincoln. As the OP mentioned, the plot somehow morphed into a quest to find the city of gold, which would, in no way, clear Thomas Gates' name or in any way prove he was not part of the plot to kill Lincoln. How does Ben discovering the city of gold prove that his great-great-grandfather was innocent? It doesn't. He could have been in on the plot to kill Lincoln AND been looking for the city of gold (as Booth and the other members of the KGC were).

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What about at the end when Nickolas Cage calls the FBI on his cell phone? Wasn't he just submerged in water for an extended amount of time? My cell phone goes loopy if I get it NEAR water!

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These have probably been said but just in case..

The Gold city/water is one big mystery.

The door they open, if this was the drainage tunnel, why was it closed? How did the water drain if it was already closed?

When they first enter the city, water is dripping from the ceiling, this means the water was very high, and yet did not fill the ENTIRE cave ie the entrance the parents entered from, and the wheel they turned to stop the water flow.

Why was the final tunnel not found, that door/stone has carvings, why did no one enquire what was on the other side?

I dont think ive explained them properly but hopefully you get the gist.

Other things that bothered my was the advertising. Apple, Motorola and Mercedes.

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Try Aquafina too. When they were washing down the rocks - they were all using Aquafina bottled water.

Also in the fishing boat scene at Mt. Vernon, anybody notice the Maryland patrol boat with the Maryland flag? FACTUAL ERROR! Mt. Vernon is in Virginia, not Maryland

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Maryland controls the river all the way up to the Virginia side, so a Maryland flagged patrol boat makes sense.

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12) The President of the United States can only take over a hotel when there are vacancies

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i dont think this is a plot hole- i think that whole scene where they're looking for a hotel and end up settling at mt vernon accounts for this fact

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HEY!!! No correcting the list!!! Even if you know why something isn't a plot hole, if it doesn't make sense, they can list it. It's for fun!!!

14) Why does Ben take so long to believe Riley about the Presidents' Book? After spending his whole life looking for a treasure nobody believed in, why wouldn't he believe Riley when he had obviously done so much research?



"Courage is when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway." Atticus

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It is a plot hole -- I know of a hotel that cancelled people's reservations because a Presidential candidate (Pierre DuPont in 1988) booked a whole floor at least.


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And they probably would have made the hotel cancel a reservation if they didn't have any other option. They went with Mt. Vernon because it was available and that way did have to force the hotel to cancel an already standing reservation, which would anger people and give the administration a reputation of over-exerting their power for something as frivolous as a birthday party.

Not doing something they COULD do doesn't constitute a plot hole. They COULD have flown to Hawaii to celebrate his birthday, but just because they didn't doesn't mean it's a plot hole. People really need to learn what a plot hole is before throwing that term around.

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ok, the plot-hole that gave me the biggest headache.

So, A ship crashed off the coast of Forida and the survivors save the nearby chief. So, they get to see the city of gold.....in South Dakota?????????

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I am not sure if you would call it a plothole but the one part that bothered me the most is that Ben is supposed to be the most wanted man in the country for kidnapping the president yet he is able to get from DC to South Dakota in what seems like one day...how can the man everyone is the country is looking for get that far in such a short amount of time without any problems?

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just throwing it out there, with the harry potter thing u mentioned, I'm pretty sure he could see the thestrals in his fifth year because he saw cedric die in his 4th year.. so ya, he wouldn't be able to see it before that

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Yes, but he saw his parents die as a child, and you can supposedly see the thestrals after you experience someone dying firsthand. So, he should have been able to see the thestrals from the point his parents died, on.

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Also, if you read the last chapters in the book when Cedric dies, it says "An explosion of green light flashed through Harry's CLOSED eyelids".

I also find it extraordinary that no one could hear the thestrals before the fifth book. I mean, they can hear them in the forest with Hagrid, but not when they are pulling hundreds of wagons?



"We shaped the streets, and the streets shaped us"

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What would they hear? In the forest they heard the thestrals eating, but I doubt the thestrals were eating while they were pulling the carriages. I guess they could hear them walking, but the sound of carriage wheels could have easily covered up the sound of the thestrals hooves. Also, it's much easier to hear something you are trying to hear (in the forest, the students were waiting for something to happen, so they were watching and listening intently; with the carriages, the students aren't trying to listen to what may be pulling the carriages).

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Rowling has said that the death you witnessed has to settle in before you can see the thestrals -- that's why it took Harry a few months before he could see them (at the end of his fourth year, Harry still thought the carriages pulled themselves); as a one year old, the death of Harry's parents never settled in with him because he didn't know or understand death as a baby.

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The flow of water out of the drainage tunnel wasn't yet strong enough to cover the very bright and large exit when they first opened it.. The first person through could very conceivably seen the exit after being swept only a few feet into the tunnel and the door could then have been jammed so that everyone could get out.

re the Potter theory: "just throwing it out there, with the harry potter thing u mentioned, I'm pretty sure he could see the thestrals in his fifth year because he saw cedric die in his 4th year.. so ya, he wouldn't be able to see it before that"

He saw his mother die as a child, he should always have been able to see the thestrals.

(sorry - completely off topic on that last bit!)

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This is off-topic, in regards to the Harry Potter thestral debate:

I took a course in Psychology, and I learned that human beings generally don't form long-term memory before the age of three. So, anything Harry Potter might have sensed or perceived before then would not have remained within his brain anyway.
So now the mistake in Harry Potter is Harry's memory of the "green flash" - it wouldn't be there.

On-topic, and I'm not sure whether or not this has been mentioned, because I have no intention of reading through all of these posts:

Near the end, when the characters are dealing with flooding water and closing doors and whatnot, Wilkinson demands to go through first; what happened to this? He threatened the others, daring any of them to go before him, and when the event actually happened, he seemed perfectly content to simply remain there and drown.

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After Ben jumps in the getaway car at the Library of Congress, the trunk magically closes itself.

"I like my wine like my men, white and hairy." - Psych

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19) There were two other people in the box with Lincoln the night he died, neither of which was present in the box in the movie. A minor detail, but in a movie mostly otherwise historically accurate, it was a mistake that bothered me a bit.


And about the thestrels: Harry had seen his mother and father die loooong before he saw Cedric die. A plot hole JK tried to talk her way out of by saying "he didn't understand it as a child." A lame excuse... but it's just one small detail in a book full of other wonderful ones =)

"Courage is when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway." Atticus

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loveistheonlyway:

If you look closely at the long shot from the right of the stage(after Booth jumps, just about to raise the knife), you will see Major Rathbone and Clara Harris near the unconcious President in the box. But I think, in the movie, there was a partition, as in the aerial view of the box, it did appear as only Abraham and Mary.

Zack: Guess what I got back there?
Enrico: You just told me. Ass! We're haulin' ass!

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Harry wasn't a child when his parents died, he was a baby

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Thats exactly my question.

I though that American Indian was all tribal like, you know, So like tribes from the Florida region wouldn't really know of their more northern "cousins".

Although it wouldn't really be a stretch that the Native tribes were involved in some sort of trade, or communication, or even cross paths some what right or wrong I dunno.

I mean of all the plot holes thats the biggest Florida to South Dakota heh?

Product placement, come on are you that naive, companies pay for their *beep* to be in movies, of course Its unbelievable that everyone carries the same sort of stuff, heh? you know show me a film that doesn't feature a computer that isn't a mac and i'll go hey.

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I'll go you one better (and I ENJOY these movies) - We see a big room. Filled with water. I've played sports in rooms bigger than this, which are in single buildings bigger than this, which are by definition NOT CITIES...

...and this is supposed to be A CITY?

C'mon.

No one caught that? IT'S A DAMN ROOM, NOT A CITY, OF GOLD.

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In Ben's presentation he tells the story of Thomas Gates, saying that if the Confederacy found the city of gold "they may well have won the Civil War". Um... the Civil War was already over.

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And this one is kinda unimportant, but at Mt. Vernon, Ben tells Riley to meet him at the Library of Congress in 20 minutes. It takes AT LEAST 30-35 minutes to get there, and that is with no traffic (which there ALWAYS is in DC).

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The biggest stupidity that bothered me when I watched this movie was when he had stolen the Declaration, and the woman follows him out, he is fiddling around in the back of the van. Just jump in and leave, already!

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NUMBER YOUR POSTS, too!!! So we can keep track of how many we find =)
And NO CORRECTIONS!!! If someone else thinks it's a stupidity, plot hole, or mistake, it can go here. Even if you think you can explain it. Do so on another board. (HEHE I'm getting bossy...)

"Courage is when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway." Atticus

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i agree with most of the things written here except the one about proving innocence. finding the city of gold proves his innocence because he destroyed the cypher preventing the confederates from finding the city of gold, if he had been with them then he would not have had a reason to burn anything, finding the city proves that gates great great grandfather had prevented the confederates from finding it all along, thus proving his alliance to the united states.

as far as the thing with the wooden planks, there was symbols on there that were clearly egyptian, and i also wonder why the president didnt go along with everything the whole time too. if he beleived gates then he could have not only kept the cops off his ass but he could have helped gates too.

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So, chrismueller83, I believe that's

20) Egyptian symbols on a Native American plank?

and

21) Why didn't the President help out more, since he believed in Ben's cause?



"Courage is when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway." Atticus, To Kill a Mockingbird

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hopefully this fits but i used to live out in the hills and saw this movie with my fam and if we recognized everything correctly

22) there is no lake directly behind mt rushmore and the one they show isn't even all that close and should be in the totally opposite direction, i think it was sylvan lake in custer state park

i'm pretty sure its mentioned in the goofs but its not often that i get to notice geographical errors in movies

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[deleted]

So, miles_ny, I believe that's:

23) There isn't enough gold in the world to make a city out of solid gold.

24) Why didn't the President stop the whole manhunt right after he found his way back to the party?

25) The secret service is much more stringent with security than they are protrayed.

26) Who parked the car around the back of the building, since they all came in through the front entrance together?

"Courage is when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway." Atticus

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#24 on your list is a big one for me. I didn't understand why the President didn't just say they got locked in there by mistake from the get go. Especially considering at the end all he did was say exactly that and viola, Cage was no longer in trouble with the FBI for kidnapping the President. That was a huge plot hole that the writers should not have allowed to continue because it really felt like an artificial hazzard for Cage and company to deal with and it impacted my enjoyment of the movie.

Another big one for me was the whole taking a picture of the plank during the chase. That took me right out of the movie. Anyone in that same position would not have done that. I'm to believe that he would trust a traffic light camera, one that he had no clue if it was working or would take a good picture and then toss the artifact in the river instead of just trying to lose the guys chasing him? No way. If he was so concerned about somebody getting hurt, they could have stopped the car and gotten out and ran for it on foot and lose them that way. Certainly that's a better plan than trusting a traffic light camera to take a good clean picture and to toss the plank. Hell, Wilkinson had no clue what he had in his hand. Cage could have thrown just about anything in the river and Wilkinson would have believed it was the artifact that Cage was on the hunt for.

Suffice to say, between serious leaps in logic and a little too much of the one liners, National Treasure 2 was a step back after a good first movie.

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Not only that, but don't people(drivers and pedestrians) sometimes get KILLED and/or seriously injured by running red lights?

My arse "Let's go"...they're filmin' MIDGETS!

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I totally agree here. In fact, Cage says, "Hang on, we're gonna run a red light!" as though that's way more dangerous than anything else he's already done in the car chase sequence. They've scattered people left and right, screeched U-turns in the middle of the street, plowed down a pedestrian walkway, but OMG, watch out, they're running a red light!

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You say it is for fun to list the plotholes, (which indeed is) but I don't think it's funny when someone just didn't pay attention while watching the movie and now posts a plothole that isn't a plothole at all. The aim of a topic like this would be to analyse the movie and filter out the plotholes, not to only see what people think is a plothole. It doesn't really matter when someone didn't pay attention, he of she can just be wrong, but let others discuss about whether someone is right or not please.

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Okay, valid point, MjDv. But peoples' minds all work in different ways, so I think all points are valid... even if they aren't. Does that make sense? You can take over moderation of this thread from me, as you just out-debated me =)

"Courage is when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway." Atticus

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Seriously? You're taking this board that seriously? Who died and made you queen of the internets? If I want to post to someone who didn't pay attention to the movie, I'm gonna do it.

I live in my own little world ... but it's OK, they know me here.

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In the beginning of the movie when Abigail is having drinks with Wilkinson and Gates calls her, her phone says Patrick Gates, the characters name is Benjamin Franklin Gates. You would think she would know her ex-boyfriends name since they say it all over the film

The funny thing about doing nothing is you're never quite sure when you're finished.

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Ben was calling from Patrick's house phone not from his cell phone so its not wrong

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It was the dad's phone. She might not answer Ben's call

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I thought it was odd that at the end of the movie, the bad guy says he lied so Ben would end up helping him find the city. But in the beginning of the movie (the car chase scene) he acted as if he was trying to kill him (thus he wouldn't have been around to help him find the city).

I don't think that much water would have come out of those water bottles.

The President says something about how 300 people saw Ben kidnap him... when in reality the only thing most people saw (if at all) was the Pres freely going with Ben down to the secret tunnel thing, and then only a couple of secret service guys heard the door shut (which isn't exactly hard evidence of a kidnapping). All the Pres would've had to say is it accidentally shut, no big deal.

In the oval office, they were looking for her jewelry in places where it would have been pretty impossible for it to end up. (I also doubt he would have been so engaged in looking for her jewelry that he wouldn't have noticed Ben messing with the desk.)

I must have missed something because I didn't get how the bad guy ended up being the one holding the door open so the others could get to safety when one second earlier he seemed to be pretty intent on he not being the one who was going to be left behind to die.





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