Who pushed Laura into the bathroom?
Was it Simon or Thomas?
It's been bothering me.
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MovieChat Forums > El orfanato (2008) Discussion > Who pushed Laura into the bathroom?
I thought it had to be Simon, not Tomas. She couldn't see the rest of the dead children until she took all those pills, so why would she be able to see Tomas? Also, didn't the medium say you needed to be close to death like Simon was to see ghosts? She wasn't close to dying until she took the pills.
shareShe couldn't see the rest of the dead children until she took all those pills
This isn't true; remember the game they played?
Maybe that was hinting at her coming suicide - she wasn't literally dying, but her death was at hand nevertheless.
the first time I watched the movie I thought Thomas had locked Laura in the bathroom to initiate the events that would lead to Simon's death and eventually her suicide and thus reunion with the other children of the orphanage. Don't forget that she was the only one who "escaped" before the woman poisoned them all.
What I don't understand is why she poisoned them. share
*Spoilers*
Benigna poisoned them because they coaxed her son (Tomas) to go into the cave where he died. It was her revenge.
When she played the game on the wall (a lot like red light green light) she was some what close to death. She had probably planned on committing suicide when she told Carols to go a head and leave and let her stay for a day or two.
"She had probably planned on committing suicide when she told Carols to go a head and leave and let her stay for a day or two. "
I don't think that the idea of suicide had occurred to her until after she discovered Simon at the end of the second day, however she was taking pills to make herself unwell leading up to this probably because she took the medium's 'theory' about seeing the supernatural when "close to death"- she thought that by doing this, she had a better chance of communicating with her spectral/immaginary friends but at this point she had every intention of living.. that is until she found out what really happened to Simon
This isn't true; remember the game they played?
I'm almost positive she took pills before playing that game, and that she wouldn't have been able to see them otherwise. I know she took a lot more pills later, too, like everyone keeps saying. share
You're right, she was taking pills before so be "close to death" like the medium said. It explains why she was so weak when she was picking berries.
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And he was Naive.
Arguments for Simon -
He was angry - he did it to get back at her, also so she could look for him and find Thomas little house.
No Ghost showed a violent act during the film - this one would of been out of character for them.
Simon was found wearing Thomas mask.
Arguments against Simon -
It was a bit brutal for a kid to do something like that.
No-one else at the party saw a kid in the mask.
I personally think it was Simon, whilst it was not cut and dry I think it fits the film more... like I said the ghosts were not violent spirits, they were most interested in their games, and Simon was definitely a very pissed off kid at that point in the film. It has to be a bit ambiguous because it's part of the 'twist' and makes the ghosts seem a whole lot scarier after such an attack.
Why is this even up for debate?! It's obviously Simon - THAT'S THE POINT OF THE MOVIE.
Agreed - It was Simon who pushed his mother. He was understandably angry with her and he's also found at the end of the movie wearing the same thing he was when he pushed her into the bathroom. It was after she gets out of the bathroom and runs to the base of the stairs to look in the closet where she inadvertently locks Simon in. No one would have necessarily had to see him wearing this outfit as he might have only had the mask on just before the bathroom scene, from which he ran down the stairs and immediately hid, he was never outside with the rest of the guests wearing the mask. He had set it all up as that game - to find what is most loved [Mother finding him] ... hence all the clues that he had left before he was locked in the basement ... leading her the thing she treasured most - her son. He wanted to know he was loved.
shareI think it was Simon, but they make him do a very weird breathing/clicking sound that he never makes any other time in the movie. That made me think it might be Tomas. Maybe they were just trying to make it more creepy, though.
shareI'm also gonna say it was Simon. Though I wonder why we see "Tomas" standing outside at the party shortly after Simon is locked in the basement, and why Laura sees a child standing near the cave.
Not that it's relevant, but it just clicked with me now that since the ghosts of the orphan children knew she was looking for Simon, they set up that whole scavenger hunt for her. They take your "treasure", then when you find it, you are granted a wish. She finds Simon, kills herself, wish granted! Though that's a terrible way to get your wish...
First, I think their is merit in that interpretation.
Also, I think that it is significant that we are shown "Tomas" outside wearing his mask and then later told that nobody saw a boy in a mask. There is no reason to believe that Simon went outside and chilled with everyone at the party for a bit, especially after expressing his disinterest.
It's obvious that the ambiguity is intentional, however it's unlikely that there doesn't exist a concrete answer beneath the ambiguity. I think both sides have an argument, but as I already mentioned, I feel that shot of Tomas at the party is significant.
Of course I'm not certain, but I think Tomas pushed her into the bathroom.
I've only read half this thread, and realize this is an old topic, but for future readers interested in this:
It's Simon. She only sees Thomas after she's eaten all of those HIV pills and is dying in the end - he's in the final group hug, maskless. The Medium mentions that only people who are near death can see the ghosts, so she wouldn't have been able to see Thomas' ghost while she was healthy.
I'm just unsure about what she saw in the waterside cave. Simon was already trapped at that point. It was either Thomas' actual ghost, echoing stronger because it was where and how he actually died, or it really was just a hallucination brought on by stress. I'm thinking it was intended to be Thomas, and the writers just made a little error in making him visible to a healthy person.
If I recall, she began popping those HIV pills before seeing any of the ghost kids, but I might be wrong on this. I mistakenly thought I had it all figured out before I decided to type this up.
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"Friends! Help! A guinea pig tricked me!"
I agree with those who say it was Simon who pushed Laura into the bathroom. I think most of the reasons have already been discussed, but the strongest evidence to me is that he was wearing the mask when his body was found. If he weren't playing a game with his mother, then why was he wearing the mask?
To address what the previous poster said, I think she did see Thomas at the cave. She was in a very dangerous, potentially fatal situation at the moment, with the tide coming in, the waves strong and dashing against the rocks. If her husband hadn't stopped her, she probably would have drowned. I believe she was close enough to potential death to see Thomas at that point.