Who pushed Laura into the bathroom?
Was it Simon or Thomas?
It's been bothering me.
are you seriously asking that question?
shareHi there!
In my interpretation, it was her son Simon who pushed her in there. It happened just after Simon and his mother had an argument because Simon wanted her to come and look at Tomas' room but the mother was preoccupied with the fact that REAL children were coming to the orphanage, so when Simon was persistent she smacked him, he got upset, and then later she goes looking for him and that's when she sees the masked child (Simon), who at the time we feel is one of the 'ghost' children or something like that, when in fact it's Simon playing games and getting back at her.
This also explains why she found Simon dead in Tomas' room wearing Tomas' mask. Because she'd inadvertently locked him in Tomas' secret room where he died.
[deleted]
But Simon was still alive when she was pushed into the bathroom.
It happened at the party right after she locked him in the secret basement.
So unless Simon left his body and appeared as a pre-ghost, the boy had to be Tomas.
"But Simon was still alive when she was pushed into the bathroom.
It happened at the party right after she locked him in the secret basement.
So unless Simon left his body and appeared as a pre-ghost, the boy had to be Tomas."
Not quite; see; Simon hid in Thomas' room, after he pushed his Mom in the bathroom. Then he got locked in when she went looking for him. No ghosts or supernatural explanations necessary.
Grow up.
shareTomas pushed Laura into the bathroom. Since people did not see any kids in the field with a bag over their head, it was Tomas since he was "imaginary". It was also a sign that she should find her son in his "home". Putting the bag over the dead Simon was very confusing, but it made the movie a little bit more suspenseful.
Jove
It was obviously simon.
Simon wanted her to think it was the children playing the game on her, he found the secret room, excitedly told his mother about it, she slapped him, then Simon in retaliation started the game to hide something she cared about - himself. When he pushed her into the bathroom and locked the door, it was to give him time to run back into the basement and hide, but he wore the mask to make it as if the children were playing the game with her.
Then of course when she ran looking for him, she wedged the door closed, trapping him.
About the part guests not seeing someone wearing a sack mask, half of them were wearing masks themselves, which have very little visibility, and he would have been outside very briefly, to place the clue in the rosebush.
You've got to remember this kid has just found out A) He's going to die, B) these aren't his real parents, and then of course she slaps him to boot. Hence why he screams when he pushes her in the bathroom, that little kid would be angry as hell and i don't blame him.
Honestly, I don't think Laura should have had the happy ending there at the end. It should have cut out after she took the pills. She was responsible for his death in multiple ways. You don't just freaking slap a young boy who has just found out that he's dying of aids, and is still cheerful enough to want to show you something.
Something to consider also is that (if I recall correctly), the actual sack on Tomas' head had eye holes in very odd and separated places. It seemed to me when I watched the movie that both eye holes had eyes peeping out, which lead me to believe that it was indeed Tomas beneath the mask since Simon wasn't deformed.
As to why Tomas would attack the mom for apparently no reason... there is a reason. He's been hidden away all his life for being deformed so he freaked out when she wanted to expose him.
*spoilers*
There was only one eye hole on the mask, because Tomas only had one eye. There is no eyehole on the right side of the cloth mask, just an embroidered eye with a big blue button(to represent an iris). The mask sits very baggy on the boy who pushed Laura, whereas when we see the old super8 footage, the same mask sees to fit the real Tomas more snugly as his head was a different shape to that of Simon's.
As to why Tomas would attack the mom for apparently no reason... there is a reason. He's been hidden away all his life for being deformed so he freaked out when she wanted to expose him.
Since people did not see any kids in the field with a bag over their head, it was Tomas since he was "imaginary".
Perhaps the filmmakers wanted it to be a mystery who was under the mask. We are not meant to know for sure, only to speculate. Different people speculate different things.
"Nature is crooked. I wanted right angles, straight lines."
I don't think either position should be too confident in itself. This isn't the sort of film a person should be driven to find the "logical" explanation of, but I feel it's not so deliberately ambiguous as to have no answers, either. My interpretation is, Simón pushed Laura into the bathroom. Was it an oddly violent act? Yes; but, it helped perpetuate the plot, which required us to believe Laura was interacting with a malevolent spirit. By the way, there's no reason to believe Tomás, himself, would act so violently. To put it another way, he's Jason from "Friday the 13th, part I," not the sequels: no hint is given the boy is anything but a victim; the only clear "villain" is Benigna (again, a lá "Friday the 13th.").
share[deleted]
Hmmm... At first, I figured it was Simon who shoved Laura but I noted some things that lead me to believe otherwise.
The first time we see "Tomas" is during the bathroom scene. Now, according to Simon, they are good friends so I believe Tomas came after Laura for two reasons: A bit of vengeance and to show her that she had locked Simon away.
Laura slapped Simon in the face and eventually locked him in the little room by accident. Tomas comes back to her a little later and angrily slams the hand she slapped Simon with, then locks her in the room and shows her that HE has the key. Reason being? Tomas is the key to finding Simon. Tomas's room. Perhaps the slamming of the hand was to remind her to backtrack to the moment she hit him...to remind her of where he wanted to show her.
By the way, I thought she was just putting stuff away in the closet, not looking for Simon when she locked the door? Did I miss something?
*spoilers*
Simon doesn't get shut in the basement until AFTER Laura has been locked in the bathroom and subsequently freed by Carlos, then they go searching for Simon and that is when she visits the below-stairs cupboard for the first time, wedging the posts against the secret door.
It could be argued that the key is held up at the door's glass to remind Laura of the previous treasure hunt(which ended with a key) and to indicate that a new treasure hunt has now begun. Laura's hand injury was perhaps an accident that the masked child didn't anticipate- he just wanted to lock her in so she couldn't lift the mask and find out who he really was, allowing him time to run down into the basement unseen.
It was simon.
Do we not see Tomas at the end with the other children and his mask off
I always thought the child's identity was deliberately ambiguous.
Impaled on my Nobel Peace Prize- how ironic.
I always thought the entire film was deliberately ambiguous.
Either the orphanage was genuinely haunted or the mother was completely off her trolley?
Since I've always gone for the latter explanation its Simion who gets my vote.
Incidentally, shouldn't his body have been more decomposed that it was after all those months in the cellar?
I guess it's somewhat ambiguous.
I can't remember if she locked him up before or after the bathroom incident. In the case it was after, then it seems more likely it's Simón (it could still be Tomás though, and the explanation someone gave as to why he did it and showed the key could still make sense... as he was a ghost and maybe could know she was going to lock Simón up?). If she locked him before, then it has to be Tomás.
Since she took a piece of the mask, I'd tend to think it was Simón, because there's no other situation where there's physical proof of the ghosts.
By the way, it hadn't occured to me that the clues to find Simón could have been planted by Simón himself.
Everyone make very good analysis here, but I think it's probable that the writer(s) left it deliberately ambiguous so that you have two plausible explanations, one supernatural and one not.
"The Love you take is equal to the Love you make" The Beatles.
"By the way, it hadn't occured to me that the clues to find Simón could have been planted by Simón himself. "
Simon is the only person, I think, who ever actually played that game...Tomas may have taught him how...but I think Simon is the person who did all the moving and stuff.
The first time we see "Tomas" is during the bathroom scene.
Dude it was Simon becuz when she went in Tomas's "little House" she found his Dead body and he was Wearing Tomas's Mask, sooo it was Simon.
Fine, i guess i'll have to make my OWN tea!
AND i think the Actor who play'd Simon also plays "Tomas" in that scene
Fine, i guess i'll have to make my OWN tea!
I JUST watched this and thought I'd clear something up since a lot of you seem confused. She doesn't lock Simon into the basement until AFTER she gets pushed into the bathroom.
share[deleted]
"All little kids get the feeling of wanting to pay their parents back for these kind of things."
Not to mention that Simon's trust in Laura has been seriously damaged at this point, having found out she kept the truth from him about his health and origins. Despite all this though, I don't think Simon intended to hurt Laura. His intention was to push her into the bathroom and lock her in(so he could initiate a new treasure hunt, leading to Tomas's den)- her finger getting trapped in the door and subsequent tumble into the bath was an unintentional outcome which unfortunately made the encounter seem more aggressive than it should have been.
If it was Simon, then who planted the doorknob for the mother to find? Simon would've needed it to get into Tomas's room, but if he was locked in, he certainly couldn't have hidden it 'as part of the game'. Somebody else (Tomas?) would have had to have taken it after Simon had got locked in...
Also - when the mother finds the hidden door, it's all wall-papered up (with no tears, I believe) - how could Simon have got into the basement without tearing the paper around the door? Or - was it ripped when the mother found it?
[deleted]
As for the door knob- Simon used it to open the secret door on the day of the party (leaving it ajar), then he planted it in a treasure hunt for Laura, dressed up as Tomas and you know the rest
shareThe interesting thing is that the wallpaper is not continuous and is broken at the edges of the hidden door.
Also, since Thomas was a monster who was never to wander about as a normal person, the door could only be opened from the outside. There was no need to "wedge" anything, there is no relief to wedge things in.
Simon left the door ajar, planted the clues, pushed mom, hid, then Laura puts the posts against the door and closes it, Simon is trapped.
From that point onward, Laura starts hallucinating, seeing Simon in the cave and all. The real Simon is bidding his time waiting to be found, but at night he realizes he won't be found, tries to open the door, it's closed!
Despair, banging against it, rebounding, hitting the rail, breaking it, falling down. Thud. He fell on his head and died a little after. Those noises were felt by Laura and Carlos.
The medium session is real though. There is no way for the medium to know that five children had been poisoned in that room. Everything that happens there has to be real, therefore if supernatural is allowed to enter the film at that point, the supernatural version may be true for the rest.
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Space For Sale.
"The medium session is real though. There is no way for the medium to know that five children had been poisoned in that room. Everything that happens there has to be real, therefore if supernatural is allowed to enter the film at that point, the supernatural version may be true for the rest"
Here's a counter arguement.
There's a moment where we are given to doubt the validity of the seance. When Aurora is walking around the hallway(mid-regression), just before the sound of children screaming starts to emanate from the equipment, we see Enrique reach over to press a button of some kind. We don't see the button or the piece of equipment that it is attached to but we do hear the sound of it being clunked down followed by what appears to be additional tape playback and then the unearthly noises begin shortly after(I might add that all this is minutes after Enrique has initiated the actual recording). This may not prove anything in terms of whether the medium is geniune, but it certainly gives us grounds to question what is going on there.
Furthermore, one might indeed question how Aurora could know that there were five children who died, but one must also consider the following:
In the scene that precedes the regression sequence, we see Laura confide in Senor Balaban about how she believes Simon has been abducted by Tomas who has "been dead for over 30 years". The scene ends when he suggests involving the medium but one has to ponder this question: what else did she reveal about her former home after this? She may have let slip that she used to live there with her 5 friends- all of whom she never met again, prompting the ghosthunters to do a little research- when they found no evidence that the five children ever existed this may have been their cue to introduce the supernatural element into their "seance". Plus, if Laura tagged on to the possiblity that the five children Aurora seems to be talking to could have been her friends, then the ghosthunters would improve their chances of repeat business(had Carlos and Pilar not intervened) and any further appointments would provide only vague, inconclusive misinformation about anonymous characters.
You'll notice that Aurora's regression does not reveal anything about Simon's whereabouts/condition and maybe this is because the medium isn't "tuned in" to his "aura", on the other hand, it just might be because this is an ongoing police investigation which they cannot touch with a bargepole as any misinformation would lead to criminal prosecution, whereas if they focus on something that may or may not have happened in the past(and remember, Aurora does not specify when the children were from- the events could be attached to any period of the Orphanage's history throughout Franco's rule)then they are safe to continue their "investigations"
Well said. When I first watched it I believed the medium but on later reviews, I think she wasn't legit. She doesn't really say anything of value at all other than being very spooky.
"Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end; then stop."
"Also, since Thomas was a monster who was never to wander about as a normal person, the door could only be opened from the outside. There was no need to "wedge" anything, there is no relief to wedge things in."
The door to Tomas's room was bereft of its handles and spindle, otherwise it was a conventional door. Without the scaffold poles wedged against it, all Tomas had to do was find something in the basement that could act as a makeshift spindle to open the door- maybe he actually did attempt this at some point(we do see a moment in the super8 footage showing him out in the open as one of the older employees snatches him back inside) prompting the Principle to utilize something heavy enough to weigh the door shut to the inside, but also something that could be removed when access was required from the outside.
... it could have been Simon and it was him wearing it. She later on accidently knocked him down to the basement. I will have to watch the movie again and look for the things that are always best lookign for on a second viewing
Bourne + Bond = Best Action Film Award