MovieChat Forums > El orfanato (2008) Discussion > It was Tomas, NOT Simon.

It was Tomas, NOT Simon.


I'm sorry, I was just reading the message boards and everybody keeps saying that it was Simon dressed up as Tomas when he pushed her into the bathroom in the beginning of the film. But I believe it was the ghost of Tomas who actually did so. Even though Simon was mad at her, he wouldn't do such a thing just to get back at her. It seems to me that Simon went down into Tomas's "la casita" while Laura was outside at the party. Meanwhile, Tomas came outside, wearing his mask, his clothes, and the whistle. She heard the whistle blow before she got knocked into the bathroom(which ended up on Benigna). The reason he pushed her in and locked the door was because she tried to take off his mask, thinking it was Simon (she DID have contact with the ghosts). But Simon couldn't go downstairs, change, plant all the clues, go outside, go back up, go the the cave in the beach, and then end up downstairs again. And I don't think he would make strange noises, either. It was obviously the ghost!

I thought this was a great and engrossing movie.

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tyreden-
No, Simon did not die moments after his mother was pushed into the bathroom... if you remember the night she awoke to the "ghosts" banging on the walls in the house in the middle of the night, that was actually Simon trying to get out of the hidden basement. This was after she had broken her leg running through the surf... remember, she was in a wheelchair.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Not only that, but Laura ripped a part of the mask off and had it analyzed. She could not possibly have done that if it was a ghost mask or if it was a hallucination(as others are suggesting).

No guessing required. The movie provides the evidence that proves it had to be Simon who pushed her.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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I don't think it was Thomas. It was Simon all along under that mask.
But Thomas existed though. He was the one who guided Laura to find Simon. He was the one with the disfigured face.
But in the film Simon wore the mask.

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A lot of good points being made here. Just wanted to add a couple more thoughts.

*Spoilers*

First of all, we have to keep in mind that Guillermo Del Toro (I know he was only a producer, but still) has stated that he doesn't like the "Hollywood notion" that all "magic" (i.e., supernatural elements) has to have a logical and reasonable explanation. He likes to present these elements as things that are what they are. It is my feeling that this movie carries this same idea. I reference Pan's Labyrinth as the most obvious example to this. While no one other than Ofelia in that movie sees the "magic," Del Toro himself has stated it was real, and honestly by just accepting it as real without logically explaining it actually makes the thing as a whole make sense. Also, it is a common movie theme among magic/ghost stories that - to a certain extent - supernatural entities can physically interact with our world.

All that said, I personally follow the belief that it was Simon who pushed Laura into the bathroom. Now, while I can't prove this, I feel that it better fits the narration of the story.

A couple things to keep in mind. We have NO CLUE as to exactly how long Simon was in the space PRIOR to being trapped inside. Also, that being said, we cannot definitively prove that the game was set up AFTER Simon got trapped inside. A couple reasons for these. One: We see Simon outside of the room within minutes of guests arriving, which means he couldn't have been in there for more than a couple hours. Also, nobody sees him or is even attempting to pay attention during the party, so while it may be a safe assumption to say he was in the basement all that time, we can't prove that. Two: It is a POSSIBILITY (not saying a fact) that the doorknob to the basement was off the door PRIOR to it being closed. We do know that Simon had found the room a while before he even told Laura about it. It's possible that Simon did set up the game, and used the doorknob as the last clue. Knowing that if the door shut all the way without the doorknob he wouldn't be able to get out, he left the door slightly ajar. But while searching for Simon, the poles fall in front of the door, which could have shut it completely and therefore left Simon trapped behind it.

All that - to me - says this: it's a definite possibility that Simon set up the game. It also says to me that it's a definite possibility that it was Simon who pushed Laura in the bathroom. He wanted to show Laura the room, she refused, so it's possible that he set it all up (including instigating her by pushing her into the bathroom) to FORCE her to come look for him and find Tomas's "casita."

On a side note, someone mentioned that Simon had a 180 degree attitude shift in the first game after he found the dosier with his information. If I remember correctly, he doesn't read the dosier when they find it. He finds the object in that drawer, and Laura is alarmed when she realizes it's the drawer that has that information in it. However, though he doesn't read it, he ALREADY KNOWS what's in the dosier and gets mad at her when she reprimands him for getting into a drawer he shouldn't be in. This says to me that he had ALREADY FOUND that document, and potentially set up the game as a way to confront her about it and saying that he already knew.

Keep in mind that the roll of ghosts in many ghost stories is to reveal a truth or reveal something that has been hidden. It is this notion that suggests to me the ghosts in this movie do exist. Going off the suggested notion that those closer to death have a stronger connection to the supernatural, it makes sense that Simon could see ghosts, as he was diagnosed with a terminal disease that Laura was keeping secret from him. The ghosts helped Simon reveal this truth, and I believe attempted to help Simon reveal the truth about Tomas. Then, once Simon got trapped, they attempted to reveal the truth about Tomas's "casita" and Simon's location to Laura. The ultimate irony is that the delay in finding Simon came from the insistence that there was no supernatural element in his disappearance and that Laura was imagining it. If they had abandoned the "logical" pursuit of Simon and let Laura "listen to the ghosts" from the start, I presume they would have found Simon a lot sooner.

The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering.

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One of my favorite movie/story endings!

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*spoilers*

I just like to add my analyze of this movie. I watched it yesterday and it was really interesting.

As far as I understand Thomas has a very small roll in this film. He died in the cave and he remained in the cave for most part of this film. He followed them to the house by collecting the shells and he met Simon for a while to play with him and showed him the basement before he went back to the cave again. I also imagine he might have been in the room to watch his mother and that's how he got the information about Simon being adopted and having HIV which he told Simon about. Other than that Thomas didn't play that big role in the film.

I believe Simon was the masked boy. I think he simply found the mask, the clothes and the whistle in the basement. It was a costume party after all. All the other kids wore masks. He went out in the garden to find his mom, but were only there for a few minutes before he followed her back inside the house as she went looking for him. That's why no one at the party noticed him. He approached her in the bathroom and why he locked the door I don't know, but afterwards he ran back to the basement to hide.

When Laura searches through the house and accidentally blocks the door he probably heard the noise and ran up the stairs to get out, and I suspect it's around that time he falls from the stair and dies. This is why Laura suddenly can see Thomas as she's running towards the cave. It's said that Simon can only see the dead because he has a close connection to death as he have a life threatening disease. Laura can't see the dead until her son dies. He's her close connection to death since they were so close.

The clues I imagine was not Simon's work (at least not while he was alive). Either the children or himself in death gave her the clues to help her find the body.

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I was just reading the message boards and everybody keeps saying that it was Simon dressed up as Tomas when he pushed her into the bathroom in the beginning of the film. But I believe it was the ghost of Tomas who actually did so.


Sorry - you're wrong. The scenes in the basement make it very clear. I'm a little amazed that you misunderstood that.

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i really don't care, i think the movie wasn't bad but it was kind of phony.

i mostly will not be able to answer your reply, since marissa mayer hacked my email, no notification

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[deleted]

There are two ways to interpret the movie and will almost explain each and every event in the movie(Somewhat same like 'The Rosemary baby')

Option 1: There are ghosts

Option 2: No ghosts just hallucinations

Some clues I think intelligently showed that there were no ghosts.

1) The piece of mask, which means that child is no ghost and could be Simon
2) The most important which no one is mentioning in the threads, when after 9 months Laura is playing the game(treasure hunt) she finds the dry rose in the photo album. Now if the ghosts are playing the game or they have set up these clues then why will they have a dry rose as they wanted to point at a nice rose plant. Which means that rose was planted a long time ago by Simon and now after 9 months it has gone dry. If the rose(clue) would have been a fresh one then definitely some ghosts would have done that as no one else is there in the house

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The rose is an excellent clue!
Another thing I noticed when looking at a picture of the child with the mask: wasn't Tomas rather pale? The child in the mask has a darker skin tone, like Simon...

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