MovieChat Forums > The Bourne Ultimatum (2007) Discussion > Jason Bourne and Nicky Parsons...

Jason Bourne and Nicky Parsons...


I admit to having watched this movie several times -- each time, I glean additional plot details and emotional punch. I am struck by the character development that Nicky Parsons undergoes, from her relatively minor role in "The Bourne Identity" (where she was a technician responsible for logistics), to the expansion of her role in "The Bourne Supremacy", and to the much more fully developed role she assumed in "The Bourne Ultimatum".

There are hints in "Ultimatum" that she and Bourne were once more than mere colleagues. When Bourne confronted her at Daniels' office, she "coded in" with an indication that she was not under duress (response "Everest"), despite the fact that Bourne had a gun pointed at her head (he could not tell whether she was indicating duress or normal communicative status). She then answered Noah Vosen with a comment to the effect that she thought that the Bourne case was closed. Then she helped him get away from the scene, using her car. But more specifically, her somewhat cryptic assertion that "It was difficult for me, with you" strongly implied that she and Bourne had once enjoyed an intimate relationship -- if not a sexual relationship, then certainly a warm relationship involving more than mere collegiality...

She then helped Bourne, in direct violation of agency protocol, by diverting the "asset" (Desh) sent to kill Daniels. She must have known at the outset that this would mark her for elimination, yet she did this of her own free will. Far from treating her as a mere agency colleague, Bourne placed himself in great danger in his (successful) effort to save her life. Although Parsons behaved with some restraint, there was genuine warmth underneath this restraint as she bathed Bourne's hands and listened to his soliloquy about the people he had killed. The scene in which she dyed her hair and altered her appearance was extraordinarily similar to the scene in which Marie did the same thing in “Identity”.

Does anybody else think that these two characters may once have been involved?


PHILIP CHANDLER


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Could it be a form of Helsinki syndrome?

Thinking about it, and having just watched all three movies back to back, I don't believe that Nicky knew Jason Bourne well before the events in the Bourne Identity.

In the first film he would have made a huge impression on her, as he wasted the entire team of assets send to kill him and escaped, leaving her alone and completely unharmed after exchanging a mere glance.

She must have spent a considerable amount of time after those events thinking about what happened and wondering about him.

In the second movie, Nicky looks scared and on edge as soon as she hears his name, and yet agrees straight away to go with the team, a decision she knows could result in her meeting him again. It's possible that she is just unquestioningly following orders, but I think she'd put up a bit more of a fuss if she wasn't intrigued.

Her worst fears must have been realised when he takes her off the tram and loses all the people tracking her. When he takes her into the store room and points the gun at her she thinks he's going to kill her but he doesn't. He asks questions to which she doesn't know the answer and then spares her.

Although traumatised, she realises he's not the cold blooded killer that everyone else thinks he is. Maybe the fact that he didn't hurt her, triggered a form of Helsinki syndrome - when kidnap victims sympathise with their captors. That and the fact that he's a good looking boy.

After the second movie, she's reposted again, but she must have been deeply affected by her experiences. Anyone would be. She would also have wondered about the answers to those questions he asked her.

When they meet again, she makes the decision to help him, perhaps reasoning that she's better off with him than with the Agency which is clearly corrupt, but also because she now feels drawn to him. He asks the question 'Why are you helping me?', meaning why NOW? When she says 'It was difficult for me, with you', I think she means it's been difficult for her since their last meeting and she now feels an attraction for him. Maybe he would feel the same, if not for the memory of Marie.

The fact that he puts her on a bus and leaves her, doesn't preclude the possibility of a reunion at some point in the future, and when she smiles at the end when she realises he's probably alive, we see how her feelings about him have reversed from the previous movie - she's hopeful she might see him again and who knows what might happen then.

Anyway it's just my take on it.

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I think its entirely plausible that they had a relationship. I find it more intriguing than the Marie storyline - that's just standard guy & girl meet, fall madly in love, defeat the bad guys & live happily ever after. Great until they made a sequel & they needed to get rid of Marie.
From Nicky's pov., in the first movie, Bourne shows up at his apartment with a strange woman, having gone m.i.a. for a couple of weeks. I know women who would not only have been printing the wanted posters but would be handing them out on the streets if that had been their fella!! His handlers [her bosses] are telling everyone he's totally lost the plot, she doesn't know any different and he doesn't ask her for help....
In Supremacy, he asks for her specifically - she asks him why he came back [which one would if they had been involved somehow] & tells him that she believed him & told the CIA what he wanted. He's already threatened to kill her & very nearly does - would make one think twice about saying 'and btw, you forgot my birthday or whatever...'
In Ultimatum, he shows up and she asks him, again, why did he come back & then she drops the hint of something - which clearly he doesn't remember, so she leaves it. Initially, it seems that she doesn't intend to go with him - I think she just offered him her car & the info. on the chap he's looking for. He drags her out with him and she looks really surprised when he says '*we* can catch the boat'.
What's interesting about it is that she knew him when he was a happy assassin & then when he wasn't - that's a really interesting angle. Don't we all hope that we will be remembered by the people we care about??? What the relationship was is left unclear - they could have been friends, casual lovers or romantically involved etc., etc. Although, I don't think it was anything to do with his induction into the programme - simply because it seems like she'd be too young.
And OT a bit - I've just watched the three movies for the first time in years. I could swear that I remember in Supremacy, at one point, Landy asking Nicky something along the lines of 'if she liked him' & Nicky gets all squirrely about it [I think its in a car] and there's a scene of him & Landy in a hospital of some kind - neither were on the dvd I recently watched. Am I having my very own reverse 'Bourne' moment - anyone able to help???



And townsfolk wonder why I sleep in on Sundays

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I must agree with muzicole for the most part. There is clearly nothing definitive pointing to Bourne and Parsons having a romantic history together. It's quite likely that if there was no history that she could easily have developed emotions and attachment towards him. They psychological impact of what she has experienced involving him would make it hard for her not to grow attached to him in many different ways. She feels for him on many different levels. She feels sorry for him for what he's going through, and somewhat guilty that she had a hand in it. He can be seen as a symbol that no matter what you've done you can still change and overcome any obstacle. For her that seems particularly relevant since it becomes clear that she does not agree with what the CIA is doing anymore. Her character has evolved SO much throughout the series, and her willingness to go against the agency increasing throughout. Regardless of whether they were implying a past relationship or emotions developed further along I feel it is likely that they wanted to use her as a piece in the sequel. I for one feel like many people were intrigued by the dynamic between Bourne and Parsons. There seemed to be quite a bit of subtle emphasis placed on the quiet scenes of them staring into each others eyes. Whenever it seemed like the tension between them was mounting too much then Bourne shifts to talking about something else, especially when he tells her she will have to run now. You can see it all over her face that she was really lost in the moment with him pouring his heart out about his past. She has both empathy and admiration for him and it really comes through. The shock and realization when he tells her she will have to run now is quite sudden and you can almost see what she's thinking. I one do not believe that the people involved in the film would emphasize the dynamic between the two of them to such an extent unless they had plans for the storyline in the future. I dare not venture a guess as to what will befall our hero in his future endeavors, but I find it highly likely that Parsons will come into play. Do I think the next movie will open with Bourne and Parsons living happily together somewhere remote? No, I know the writers wouldn't want to rehash that same scenario that they played out with Bourne and Marie. It does however seem that the women throughout these movies have played key roles in Bourne's evolution, and I doubt that will be left out in any future film. I suspect that Landy and Parsons will both be heavily involved in the next Bourne film. Landy seems headed up the chain of command over at Langly with Noah Voson and Ezra Kramer both seemingly getting the axe at the end of Ultimatum. If that is the case it is possible that Bourne may view Landy as a friend or at least a possible ally. Maybe something will happen with Parsons that pulls Bourne out of hiding. Someone could go after Parsons as a way to flush out Bourne because of some grudge they developed for him through all of his killing and outing of corruption within the CIA. Who knows what exactly will happen in the next film, but it's fun to speculate. I only hope that they can keep up the BEST and most intelligent action, thriller, spy series to date. I for one am confident that Greengrass and Damon plus many others will do anything and everything they can not to be the ones who ruined this masterpiece trilogy. Best of luck to all of them, and I have the utmost confidence in their future work together. :)

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God damn it!...
This might seem petty but i couldn't let it go while reading your post.
It's the STOCKHOLM SYNDROME not the HELSINKI SYNDROME.
Helsinki = Finland
Stockholm = Sweden
A bank robbery occured in Stokholm in the '70s. The kidnapped identified with the kidnapper.

And no, i don't believe Nicky's got the "Helsinki" syndrome.
I got the feeling through all of the movies that they had a thing, before it all. But then again, just my guess which isn't that much of worth.
And the development of Nicky from the first to the last movie could be taken in both the "relationship" or "Stockholm syndrome" way. So your guess is as good as mine


"Time is all we have"

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A romantic relationship between Nicky and Bourne would break the logic of her character. I don't remember if it was stated in the movie explicitly, but it was definitely implied that she played a role in his psychological reprogramming. Part of it, as I imagine, involves brutalizing the natural emotions that a man can feel for a woman, to ensure that he wouldn't become romantically engaged. My speculation is that she made him fall in love with her, perhaps by providing feminine concern and affection following the physical abuses, only to break him later. That was the "hard" part she was referring to, because at some level she did have genuine feelings towards him. But hard doesn't mean impossible. Had she succumbed to such simple human weakness then she wouldn't have found herself in Treadstone. In the first movie she was clearly as much a ruthless and proficient operative as he was prior to the incident on the boat.

Basically, it goes against the cynical nature of the world these characters inhibit for their prior feelings to have come to fruition in any form. The scene where she asks him if he can remember the past makes more sense thematically if he had developed feelings for her (this clearly has to be the case--otherwise she wouldn't have asked) but at the time she didn't reciprocate out of professional duty.

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I think chernyshevsky puts a very plausible case. I always read her line " it was hard for me, with you" as meaning that at some point in his training she either inadvertantly started to have feelings for him and hated what was being done to him. Or , as above but in addition , she had to play some part in it. God knows, the guys who ran the training operations would have done anything to anybody and used anybody in any way to fufill their ends.

I always thought however, that his line "it gets easier" referred to the running and hiding stuff which she was just about to descend into. I can see that it might mean getting used to losing someone gets easier, though....

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[deleted]

I haven't read all the comments here but I am forced to respond to people who have watched the movie but not really watched it but say that there was nothing going on between Nicky and Jason.

It's clear as daylight after Nicky says "....it was difficult for me...with you".
The eye contact and emotions she is feeling and the realization on Jason Bourne's face is so clearly visible.
The absolute certainty that they shared a romantic relationship is when Nicky asks Jason "So you don't remember anything?"

So now that I've said it....this debate is settled once and for all :)

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Thank you. Case solved, next case please.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Does anybody else think that these two characters may once have been involved?


I definitely do not think Nicky and Jason were involved ever. Nicky knew who he was and was probably involved in the psychological aspects of helping men who were undergoing training like Jason's. Does Nicky have feelings for Jason that she is hiding? Yes, definitely.

What I do believe though is that Jason and Nicky will reconnect. At the end of the movie we see Nicky smiling because she knows Jason is still alive. I believe that Jason will go find her (as he did with Marie) and that they will become a couple.

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I personally think even without the film maker confirming it (which he has done) was that it was meant to be ambiguous and it was left up to the audience to think and decide what they think it may have been. Stiles absolutely nails the scene and makes several possibilities plausible.

I personally assumed a more brother to sister like relationship but can certainly see how one can assume it could have been a romantic relationship. One could suggest that she had simply had a crush on him, but I think unless you assume she is lying and trying to manipulate him (which she has little reason to do) it was a direct relationship that Bourne certainly new about. Anything beyond that and there are reasons to believe they where lovers, close friends or numerous other possibilities. I like this as it means I pay more attention to details on repeat viewings and I fell more films would benefit from such story telling. We don't need to be spoon feed are given definitive answers to everything. In fact it may seem odd but this is what I remember most about the film.

All this makes me wish they would drop the nonsense of the disappointing 4th film, get Greengrass and Damon back and do a 'proper' follow up to ultimatum if they are going to keep the series going. Sadly it looks like we shall see the series continue the story of Aaron Cross and the he and the forth film simply where colossal disappointments for myself. Hopefully the story of Aaron gets more interesting and maybe it will as there is a new writer I believe (and hopefully a new director).


Film Reverie: http://filmreverie.blogspot.com.au/
My film diary: http://letterboxd.com/filmreverie/

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^Do you mean the 4th film with Jeremy Renner? I haven't paid any attention to that at all and have no clue who he is supposed to be. So is Renner supposed to be Matt Damon's original character?

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So is Renner supposed to be Matt Damon's original character?



No, he's not supposed to be Jason Bourne (Damon's original character) but Aaron Cross, another assassin.




Will Graham: I don't find you that interesting.
Hannibal Lecter: You will.

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Bro and sis... Said it.

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Definitely definitely those two were involved, if not romantically than at least on a very good friends basis. When Nicky followed up her confession of "It was difficult for me, with you..." with "You really don't remember?" --the way she asked that question, it was very subtle but as a woman myself, I got the impression that those two were indeed involved on some romantic level. Maybe their relationship didn't get too serious but he was definitely more than just another agent whose files she managed.

I don't understand why some of the other commentators have been so quick to dismiss this possibility. I'm glad that the filmmakers didn't take this tangent too far though. It was nice to see that brief hint to an undisclosed storyline and then reshift the focus back to the priorities at hand.

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The scene you mentioned implies something happened, but nothing before indicates they had any connection other than professional and that is the problem.




Will Graham: I don't find you that interesting.
Hannibal Lecter: You will.

****

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I think it comes down to what the viewer takes it as.......

End of the day, Bourne was not some 9-5 desk jobsworth.... he was a highly trained agent waiting 24 hours a day for the call for his next mission and sent around the world to perform a kill, and not kills as in just showing up with a gun, and "BANG" job is done.... like the Wombosi mission, from what we gather that was months/weeks in planning.

So if Nicky and Bourne had a office romance, it was either very breif, or it was one way (ie she towards him).

My take on it is, she knew him from the beginning but kept it professional (after all, he was in his 30's and she was only something like 21-ish... chance there was some kind of teen crush on her part, but end of the day it was all business......) and during the events in Supremacy and Ultimatum she basically fell for Bourne the same way Marie fell for him..... felt sorry for him (only it was hard for Nicky, as she knew him before and knew what he was like).

End of the day, I am glad they didn't make a bigger deal of it than they had to in the movie (I think that would have been very disrespectful to Marie)

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Iv'e just watched the triology again for the 3rd or 4th time, and im 100% sure there was some sort of an relationship going on between them. Look how she puts his hand on his hand while looking deeply into his eyes, while asking "you really dont remember do you?". That heavily implies that something was going on. Why would she comfort him anyways? She was in the scene before that being hunted down, and almost killed. He killed the guy without getting heavily damage.
It seems like she was feeling sorry for that he killed yet another guy, and she wanted to comfort him.
The way she comforted him was with affection, like you see people who genuine love eachother does.

So, lets do the elimination game:

Brother and sister?
Highly doubt it, with all the background checkings, even though Jason Bourne file was highly classified, there is no way that they could have been related in that way. Because they would never allow someone that close to monitor the subjects health.

Pre-relationship historic
Doubtful but plausable. I bet really deep background check was the process in order to hire everyone connected with a program such as Treadstone. So would they hire a girl with relationship historic in order to work with they 30 mill project, the first one aswell? I guess not. If that was the case they might have gotten another person to monitor the subjects health.
However, could they have had some "off the record" relationship when he served in the army? Maybe they had a fling or something before she was working for treadstone?

They fell in love during training
Most likely. She was young, he was the first subject that went through the program. Which she knew was in-human with all the torture that they did too him. Think about it. She is a young woman that watches a handsome guy get tortured every day. The things she had to witness with him did most likely made her think about him before bed at night, before going to work and at work. He might have fell for her aswell, a young beautiful woman that cares for him. He might have opened himself to her during their professional meetings (she ask questions and do tests). Also, let's remember that this was strictly illegal, which might have made it even hotter, more dangerous. Which leads to more affection.

She was breaking him down with sex and emotions
Kind of hope not! If she was like a few guys in this thread has implied, working "off the record" with her body as tool in order to forfill the programming, that would imply that she has shagged most of the assassins linked to that program.
However, if that was the case she might have been falling inlove with the guy she was breaking down with seduction and sex.
Would they use someone that was monitoring health (possibly a highly educated person) to do that kind of work? Or would they have used girls not connected with the agency in order to get the results.

Anyways, the fourth movie is coming out in 2016 or 2017 with everybody on board (rumoured) it seems. Given the ending we might see her again in the forth movie.

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"It was difficult for me, with you"

Once she says this, Bourne gives her a blank look, and then she goes on to ask, "you really don't remember, do you"?
And he responds in the negative.

That would seem to indicate some type of previous relationship, but nothing in the first and second installment in the trilogy would suggest that was the case.
And I am not sure how they could have managed an intimate relationship when he was actively performing his assassin duties.

Since they were both stationed in Paris it would be possible but, there is no indication of it on her part in Indentity and Supremacy.

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