MovieChat Forums > The Giver (2014) Discussion > This movie must really anger Democrats

This movie must really anger Democrats


Complete state Totalitarian control. A duped and clueless society. Then, some jerk has to go and ruin that Democratic Party utopia.

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The founding fathers were very much liberal and the framework of the U.S has the basis of liberalism, just look at the bill of rights or any other founding documents. If you do not adhere to the principles of liberalism, you are not a liberal. On the political spectrum, there is indeed a left and right liberal (libertarian) and what we see today is the authoritarian right and left take over and polarized the country. Many self labeled or ascribed liberals are not actually liberals but are most likely a progressive.

Liberal: Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality... Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programs such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, and international cooperation. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism)

Liberal Principles;

Individualism: Personal Liberty, Equal opprotunity
Rule of Law
Economic Freedom:
free markets, laissez-faire
Freedom of Expression: freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of press, freedom of thought
Political Freedom
Deomocracy


To say that any/only one political party that has ever upheld those values would be dishonest.

For progressives, i refer you to this youtube video which illustrates what a progressive is and why it contradicts liberalism. I really dont want to write a whole wall of text about it and the guy makes an intellectually informative discussion on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnd6IS0DrY

Also this further elaborates on the difference, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH0mPfR-K2U

Progressives do not really uphold the principles of liberalism and their ideology mirrors that of Marx's theories and the perpetuation of critical theory . There are to many examples to illustrate why and i don't know where to start.

The democratic party is awash of progressives and have taken over the party. Its to the point where the liberal left is now ostracized and no longer seen as a democrat and sometimes as a republican. The democratic party presidential debate is a pure example on how progressive they are..

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Jonas, who is eleven years old, is apprehensive about the upcoming Ceremony of Twelve, where he will be assigned his career or his "assignment in the community". In his society, little privacy is allowed; even private houses have two-way intercoms which can be used to listen in for infractions of the rules...Jonas learns that the Community engineered a society of "sameness" ...giving their memories away, embracing "sameness", and using "climate control".

In his "community", which is under extreme control, there is no suffering, hunger, war, and also no color, music, or love. Everything is controlled by "the Elders," who are looked upon in a very positive light, though they control who will marry whom, where children are placed, and what everyone will be "assigned" as a career. The people in the community do not have the freedom to choose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giver

The movie mirrors collectivism,central planning,expropriation of the expropriators (Marxism at its core) and critical theory.

The OP is right to an extent, it does in fact outline the Utopian world of the authoritarian left. It is important to distinguish what part of the political spectrum it represents though.

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The Founders were classical liberals - the polar opposite to today's leftist progressives, who have hijacked the term "liberal".
This is not a new topic.

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Why would the progs of hollywierd make a movie about a progressive society that has to fall apart in the end? This is the society todays progs want but the movies always end with the society or government crumbling.

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Liberal = Big Goverment control your life cradle to the grave

Conservatice = Your in control of your life. Minimal goverment intervention. In other words following the Constitution as written. Following the Bill of Rights as written. None of this taking away your freedom of speech or taking your guns away as they are attempting to do.
While they know it is difficult to actually take them away. They are regulating the crap out of it instead.

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You do realize that the Patriot Act, the single biggest slight against the constitution, was drafted and passed under false pretense by a republican controlled government right? You don't know what you are talking about at all. Conservatives are not in favor of minimal government control. That's utter bull *beep* Conservatives want THEIR form of government control. They want a bought and paid for government, run by corporations to limit the freedoms of anyone who disagrees with them. They blindly follow demagogues who only want to fill their own pockets while abusing their power to steal from everyone else. Conservatives are ignorant believers in archaic "moral" norms. Conservative beliefs all come from too much intervention of false religion into government and belief in the so-called "American dream" that no longer exists unless you abuse the system to steal it from someone else.
I would identify as an anarchist/libertarian. I would prefer no government at all. I would sit by and laugh while the government collapsed in flames. I would gladly press the plunger that blows up every government building in the country. I have very many friends who are also libertarian. Not one of them would ever want to be compared to a conservative republican. They are all aware that conservative republicans fall into one of 3 groups or any combination therein. Silver spoon rich and greedy, extreme religious ignorant, and unintelligent racist bigots. No open minded, free thinking person with an IQ over 100 identifies as conservative unless they are trying to obtain more personal power.

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This is a very bigoted diatribe. True Conservatives were not in favor of the entirety of the Patriot Act or how it was ultimately used. Conservatives are in favor of a small federal government only there to provide what they are Constitutionally empowered to do.

Anarchists like you believe in the might is right philosophy of governing. Anarchy nearly always leads to either a completely fractured failed nation where each state is controlled by a single person or the nation is held together with a tyrannical government. Also anarchism is not comparable to libertarianism. Of this, you seem to be ignorant.

Bob

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Then you obviously don't know the real meaning of the terms libertarian or anarchism at all beyond the modern American bastardization of the names. Libertarian socialists make up a large percentage of the educated anarchists of the world. Anarchism is not the commonly believed image of chaos and violence. Might is right has absolutely nothing to do with it. Noam Chomsky is one of the most famous and well versed examples of a libertarian socialist. If you really want to know what peaceful nonviolent and non ignorant anarchists believe then I suggest you read some of his work.
You can say that true conservatives were not in favor of the patriot act all you want but that's just adjusting the narrative to suit your argument. It wasn't conceived, drafted or lobbied by liberals. Conservatives would rather bury their heads in the sand and ignore the oligarchical system we have right now and blame liberals for all of the problems with the country. You condemn government oversight in favor of letting banks and corporate conglomerates maintain absolute control of our economy without any accountability.
The general consensus of most conservative republicans is "You're not taking away my rights. You sure as hell better take away those other peoples rights though" The truth is that the founding fathers held classic libertarian beliefs as the rest of the world understands the term. Not the current american definition of libertarian which is nearly the complete opposite of what it means to anyone outside of the U.S.

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The Patriot Act was written by the right leaning progressives, not conservatives.

"The general consensus of most conservative republicans is "You're not taking away my rights. You sure as hell better take away those other peoples rights though" "

That is not the general consensus of conservative republicans. There is no such thing as "your rights" and "my rights" in that convention. It is "our rights." The biggest deal with Conservative Republicans is, as I said, keeping the Constitutional powers where they were originally placed. We are not living in that today with the Legislative Branch having given up too much of its power and the Ninth and tenth Amendments virtually non-existent.

Bob

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Seemed to me that it was a liberal utopia, total collective state, no one richer than another, thought control (RULES = political correctness), killing inconvenient babies without remorse. The act of crossing the barrier, a liberal ideal... that isn't practiced by liberals. Maybe more the conservative ideal (there's that word again) of the individual and freedom of thought, even if someone's thoughts may hurt others' feels.

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Lol what?

It's actually the opposite. Everyone is extremely conservative. Freedom of expression is non existent. People are systematically murdered for being less or different. Instead of accepting people's rights and their own individuality they are completely denied any. Some morbid mix between Stalinist Communism, Nazi extremism and Donald Trump.

Your must not have studied up past the '60s southern Democrats....dumbass.

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It's like a college campus!

What we got here is... failure to communicate!
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Funny, OP... how do you equate the Democrats ideology to repressive Totalitarianism?

Enrique Sanchez

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