MovieChat Forums > The Giver (2014) Discussion > The 'all white' society

The 'all white' society

posted 10 years ago by boudicea1967
54 replies | jump to latest

I don't know if any of you read the book but that gets addressed in the book and is pulled off very well but I don't believe it would have been possible in a movie, though when you think about it, it would have made a stronger story.

The idea of "sameness" means every one is the same, no rich or poor, no envy, jealousy, greed, rage, injustice, no anything just a very vanilla kind of world and using the black and white with hints of color slowly be added to it was a plus. I do not know this, but I do not think that the writer was a racist but I do believe she addressed the issue of race. In the book, there is a more extensive talk about color between the two and the Giver tells Jonas that people once had different colors of skin, which Jonas sees in the movie and in the book. As hard as it is to imagine, the purpose of the sameness is that no one is discriminated against and you have to use your imagination to understand. This is a world where, probably due to catastrophic events, came up with a system where no one would be preferred and every one is viewed as being the same as other people with very little differences among them. In the book, blue eyes and light hair are not the dominant or preferred but is one thing that is tolerated.

Try to imagine a world where there is no color at all, no distinguishing characteristic that makes you unique as an individual. Actually, there is no individuality at all, nothing. This is a dystopian future so you have to guess that race or ethnicity was such a big problem that the architects of this community took it out. They took away any feature that was/is seen as being an advantage or disadvantage. When I was listening to it on audiobook, I tried to imagine a place where a being can be present but there is no actual color that is being seen by people in this community. Also, think of the medicine they were all on too. It was hard for me to do. There is no color at all in this society and in order to make the movie seem so boring a blaugh, they used an all white cast. I think it would have been interesting if they did have black, Hispanic and dark skinned people but "hid" it in a way that would have been believable and at the same time illustrating that ethnicity did not exist in this world. However, I do not know how the actors would have liked it. Lois Lawry has always addressed race in some of her novels for young people, so I do not think it was her intention to seem racist so much as a world with no diversity which is hard for me to do.

[–] special_user 10 years ago

I saw some black chick and I think a latino in the movie.

[–] Dejay 10 years ago

Yeah that's really a shame that they added colored people. It's TOTALLY against the very idea of sameness and cheapens the whole story.

[–] superfly2008 10 years ago

Actually everyone in the movie was white appearing, if you know what I mean. There were non white people in the colony, but to most of the people they all looked white. I'm guessing that only the Giver and the main character could see the non white people due to having the memories and being able to see color. To everyone else I imagine the non white people's real image would be distorted to make them look European due to the drug everyone was taking. So a black person could walk down the street and to everyone else, he would look like a white guy.

[–] boudicea1967 10 years ago

Exactly! Thank you for explaining it better. I must have sounded very strange when I was trying to explain the concept and how it applies to the movie, but it is hard to explain a concept that we do not know about.

It was brought up in another post I read and I thought about it for a while because it was bothering me. I am not completely sure, but I think some saw it as being a racist thing and I do not think that Lois Lowry the author or the film makers were trying to be racist so much as somehow show what the sameness thing is by not having the lead characters as being anything other than white. However, I think it would have been a stronger concept if one of the main characters were black because it would show that the concept of ethnicity did not exist anymore and if suddenly Jonas saw that his friend or one of his parent units was darker, he would question that or bring it up. My guess is that the movie makers thought the opposite would be a better illustration. Both ways would have shown that, I just think the other way may have been better.

[–] kittydolphin13 10 years ago

That's a very interesting concept. I think that it would've been nice if they made Asher Black or Hispanic and have Jonus not realize that he looks different until after he can see color. There is the possibility that along with only seeing shades of gray their eyes see all skin as the same shade of gray. His differing facial features (such as an African Hispanic nose) could be boiled down to a distinguishing feature. They all have a few different features so they can tell each other apart anyways.

[–] bluerisk 10 years ago

Black people have not only a diffrent skin color but also diffrent kinds of lips, noses, their hair grows diffrent etc. pp.

It not just the color of the skin that makes black people different from us.

Ich bin kein ausgeklügelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

[–] kittydolphin13 10 years ago

I know that very well. My main point is that without the basis of color, different nose shapes, lip sizes, hair conditions and the like would be considered distinguishing features in his world.

[–] necoleman 8 years ago

I am formerly known as HillieBoliday....Member since May 2006

We blacks are not the only race who has thick lips, full noses and kinky hair?

You need to look very closely at the Jews, Italians, Greeks, Tungens, some Hispanics, Asians...and even some Germans, Russians, etc! I've seen plenty of them with our same facial features! But guess what...stab anyone of us and those that I've just mentioned...the RED blood will flow and the cries of pain will sound the same! Deprive anyone of these I've just listed of shelter, water, protective clothing, food, love, compassion, joy, peace: they will perish! Try hurting a child or loved one of any of these....and watch a roaring lion rise upon you in a deadly attack! There are differences...but trust me...they are few in comparison to what we really share as the human race!

"OOhhhooo....I'M GON' TELL MAMA!"

[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

They can see shades of grey. Why would the brown of skin be different than other browns such as eye color? If there were people who had darker skin in the community, everyone would notice it.

Bob

[–] superfly2008 10 years ago

They wouldn't notice if the appearance of dark skin people was completely altered to look like an entirely different race. I'm not saying that they only see in black and white, but that the non white characters appearances are completely altered kind of like in Mission Impossible when the person wheres a mask

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

If that was the case, why keep Fiona's hair or the light eyes of five of the citizens named in the book. It would be a very detailed procedure that would have to be repeated. frequently. A mask ala MI isn't possible.

Bob

[–] Hopstimop 10 years ago

Why does everything have to do something with racism in the world of people like you?

If you alter the look of black or hispanic people to look like caucasian: THAT is racist.

The movie is about humans, not about white or black people. They were artificially created, because nobody had sex in the movie since decades.

If the colony was formed by a few people at the beginning, maybe there were just no black people around.

There were probably other people outside the circle, who lived differently as they have lit up a house and were singing christmas songs.

I also don't complain about the lack of my countrymen missing or that everybody is speaking only english.

It's a F**ING MOVIE about a very specific and very small community!

[–] Lab2112 10 years ago

Why does everything have to do something with racism in the world of people like you?

Why does someone else's view on this film bother other people, especially on the social topic of racism?

Get a grip -- it's a F**ING MOVIE.

[–] disarrasin 10 years ago

Just a redundant little tidbit but Hispanic is not a race. Most are mixed with Indian but some are Black and some are definitely Caucasian, as are most folk from Spain or Argentina etc.

[–] spell-for-ireland 10 years ago

In the book, it's more like colour-blindness than anything else. It's mentioned once in the book that people can see there's a slight difference between some people. If I remember correctly, it's that some people's eyes are "paler" than others. So, it's as if you're looking in black and white and you see someone with blue eyes. Their eyes would be "paler" than brown eyes.

I'm pretty sure that's what it is, because Jonas happens to see the colour of an apple as it's being thrown, and he is completely confused by this concept of colour. So it's not that people are all one race or anything, but they literally cannot see any colour - not in people, but also not in things. All they see are shades of black and white.

[–] mpatt670214 10 years ago

no asians in the community.strange!

[–] peeeter-f 10 years ago

Why do you need sameness when they take medication to suppress emotions? They can't feel envy or jealousy when they can't feel ANYTHING! You don't need sameness once you have suppressed emotions.

Besides they are not same. They have different jobs, they do look different (they are not clones) etc.

[–] boudicea1967 10 years ago

Very good points and observations and I agree it does seem like the idea of sameness is a good topic to discuss.

Well, I didn't write the book and when it came to the medication, the movie I thought of was George Lucus's project when he was in school for production and was his first movie, THX-1138 where the citizens were drugged and felt no emotion. I am not sure they were taking medications to not have emotions because emotions were displayed except for "bad" emotions. My guess is that this movie is suppose to occur in a distant future where maybe less were needed because things were not questioned that much.

I probably did not explain it correctly because I was thinking very abstractly and I was explain why the society was all white and I thought about the discussion in the book about different colors and people USE to have different color skin. I believe that there was probably all ethnic groups in that society but that the people in it, after generations and generation, lost that sense to see colors and so every one was pretty much the same in their eyes. There were some deviations such as hair color and eye color that is explained in the book. It is a book geared to adolescents and if you get a chance you might want to read it. As for the sameness regarding occupations, there are certain functions in society and someone has t9o do them. If you noticed, there was no choice, the people were assigned their occupation because these things have to be done by humans.

Remember, I am just guessing and telling you what I think. I am not right or wrong and when we are talking about a dystopian future, we do not always know the events that led up to the current situation and we don't know how long it has been going on. I like to think of it as the appendix in the human body. It serves no function but is still present. However, the day will come when children are born without the appendix as a part of evolution, if something is not used and become obsolete then it dulls or eventually does not become part of the body.They still need eyes to see, but it could be possible that the optical nerve became so dulled down that colors did not show up. However, it could be that the optical nerve was less functional and inhibited due to lack of "exercise" or use and is just dormate. The movie has it that Jonas could see things that others could not at times. It was not the same in the book. In the book, he was just like everyone else and only started being aware when he was training.

I hope that wheat I said made some sense or that I have explained what I meant better. Thanks for responding to it.

[–] shannon_cockburn 10 years ago

The characters in "Equilibrium" also took medication that controlled their emotions.

[–] boudicea1967 10 years ago

Yes I remember. Somehow being in a medically calm mood society makes me a bit nauseous and similar ideas have been written about in Literature. Vonnegut, Orwell, Steve Moore and Ray Bradley may not had any actual medication, they wrote about other things that were done such as the burning of any book if it is deemed offensive or brings strong feelings, having intensive "hate or rage" exercises or setting up a series of events that to some extent makes the citizens believe and give up willingly their freedoms for safety (Patriot Act sound familiar on the last one?)

I only bring them up to show how a society can be normal for those in it by external things and in this case and in THX 1138 and The Giver, medication and Equilibrium. Thanks for bringing that up by the way.

[–] tody711 10 years ago

The book author was born in Hawaii so she was well aware of various races. But I think in order to stress the "sameness" everyone had to be of the same race, all nice looking, all cookie cutter people. Read her next 3 books and find out more..... There are some different races in those, as 'he' gets out of that society and into another.

[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

While I have yet to read Son, there was no specific description of skin color that I recall in the other two books. Messenger was the most diverse of the first three books as it was a community of last resort and welcoming of anyone.

Bob

[–] dikayakoshka 10 years ago

<< Why do you need sameness when they take medication to suppress emotions? They can't feel envy or jealousy when they can't feel ANYTHING! You don't need sameness once you have suppressed emotions. >>

Because if things weren't the same, someone might get curious, which then might lead that person to stop taking that medication, which would then lead that person to have emotion, which would then lead that person to talk someone else into not taking that medication, and so on..... The people aren't zombies when on medication. Emotions are suppressed. One little thing, "like a red apple for instance" could make someone wonder what it would be like if....

[–] brandt001100 10 years ago

Other face phenotypes different from caucasian can be seen in the movie. But when everything looks grey, everyone looks alike.
I haven´t read the book, so when the society was presented, I was puzzled cause I couldn´t see the black president or usual boss around. Too many movies I guess :)

[–] Hopstimop 10 years ago

But when everything looks grey, everyone looks alike.

Have you ever seen a black and white movie? Or seen a movie on a black and white television? Doh!

[–] boudicea1967 10 years ago

Wow. that was really long time ago. Even up to the 70s. That was the first type of TV I had when I was a kid, color small color TVs were real expensive.

[–] bigBang8 10 years ago

What part of no differences you do not understand.

The increase in human knowledge is the cause of the decline of religions.

[–] boudicea1967 10 years ago

So? who cares about the decline of religion, it causes a lot of problems at least here because there are too many religious elites who don't believe in science. I am not sure any deity would want that. However, in the US there are thees religious people who thing there way is the only way and they do cause damage to others. There are people, talking about Christianity here, that can call themselves Christians, but they get shouted out by these backwards idiots who do nothing but talk about the Rapture and End times. I do understand no difference, I was trying to make a point because it was addressed in another post and I thought about it and started my own post, so DO NOT come on here to say something snarky and smarter than any one else here. This is a discussion board not a way for any one person to shout out and bring up things that have no really cares about. That is what discussion is for.

[–] ttommy90 10 years ago

I saw a black woman in the movie. I don't know what your talking about.
as for Hispanics.well it isn't a race, its a culture. They can be white, black, or native American.
and once color is restored not everyone is going to have the same skin color.
at the end sameness was extint.

[–] KassyL 10 years ago

Great post, and as hard as it was to digest this all white society as a solution to dysfunction, I enjoyed this movie.

The redeeming quality is that it exposes the actual dysfunction of eliminating all that makes us different, as just one young man is permitted to discover.

The prevailing UNTRUTH about this philosophy is that 'humanity has always feared difference'. That is simply NOT TRUE. When you study the history of Indigenous peoples of Africa, Asia, The Americas etc. you will find they were very welcoming to their eventual conquerors. They were respectful of the 'different' or various species of the entire living kingdom. They held in high reverence animals that our Western thought has taught people to fear, such as the Serpent and others. There is even evidence to suggest they experienced peaceful encounters with extraterrestrial species from other planets or galaxies.

The hard truth is, it is only the Caucasian (the white race) that has feared differences for as long as they have been on the planet...that is simply not so for all of humanity, thus their real world attempts at eliminating all races and cultures by any means necessary leaving only their own. So it would make sense that the 'sameness' that is chosen to define the community is the white race.

It's still happening all over the world, people are killed just because they are different in the name of 'progress'. It's not just their land and natural resources that are coveted, but all indigenous Religions are demonized, language, education and social structure considered worthless, cultural practices deemed barbaric or 'savage', racial discrimination has permeated the entire planet by colonizers and missionaries.

I like movies that provoke dialog on our single minded society.

QofH3arts

[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

"it is only the Caucasian (the white race) that has feared differences for as long as they have been on the planet."

This is absurd. Every group of every skin color has feared differences from others.

Bob

[–] Pianohero4 10 years ago

It's funny that whites always get criticized for having had slavery, for beimg racist, etc, when wthe people are the only reason the world now believes that slavery is wrong, and incorrectly, that every race is exactly alike in every facet (egalitarianism). White people invemted the concept that slavery is wrong, and the concept that racism is wrong.

Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad

[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

Africa had a slave trade amongst their own countries when the American Colonies followed in the European practice of intercontinental slave trade. Slavery had been in effect for thousands of years in Africa before the American colonies came into being.

I won't say that white people were the first to be anti-slavery. I don't think it is possible to know who were the first anti-slavery people, but slavery is probably as old as prostitution as warfare in ancient times usually ended with slavery of the civilians of the losing force.

The idea that differences are bad are not endemic to a certain group of people. Warfare is a feature of all civilizations.

Bob

[–] Scaar_Alexander 10 years ago

Yeah I agree. The fact that white people are the one who created anthropology clearly points out that we are the most xenophobic people in the whole world. It's like some people don't think.

___________
"If it's any consolation, fish aren't never even really alive." Red Foreman

[–] Vlad_the_Reviewer 10 years ago

Big $$$ movies is a Jewish affair from an executive producers perspective. Understand that they hate blacks more than anyone else. Donald Sterling's comments about 'community' which doesn't want to be associated with blacks is a phenomenal hint. The leaked tapes are revealing though nothing new.

No south or east Asians were in the move as well, no middle-easterners as well. And so forth. When the Jewish establishment created Hollywood as we know it, their greatest accomplishment - in their eyes - was that they were able to marry the 'white' Caucasian.

I do not expect anyone to be agreeable on this immediately. But things will sink in if you give this thought a try. Then you'll see far more patterns in main stream movie making, which I'm not going to explain now.

[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

You are as bad as Donald Sterling. Anti-Semitism is just as ignorant as racism. What does being Jewish have to do with your argument?

Bob

[–] Kev11sky 10 years ago

In the movie, there are several different "Communities" (not sure about the book). In the aerial views they appear to be distinct from each other, but all are under the centralized control of the Elders. The story takes place in only one Community.

Maybe people of other races/skin colors lived in the other Communities. They were kept separate for the sake of harmony and "sameness" within each Community.

IMHO.

[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

There were several Communities in the book that the Giver visited. The children also made field trips for school. In the book, Lily discussed a group from another Community who were with them for the morning. I also think Jonas' group visited another Community when they were younger.

The interconnected Communities were all one ethnicity. Outside these Communities, there was diversity.

Bob

[–] 10 years ago

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