MovieChat Forums > The Departed (2006) Discussion > tell me why i didnt tell no one.........

tell me why i didnt tell no one.........

posted 13 years ago by stellastey
152 replies | jump to latest

why didnt the guy who died in dicaprios arms not tell anyone he gave him the wrong address so he knew he was the rat??????

[–] ZabyPS3 12 years ago

Consider this. Costello's top guys are:

French
Fitzy
Delahunt
Costigen

Doesn't it seem slightly implausable that half of his top guys are undercover policemen? Costello is one hell of a poor kingpin if that's the case.

Also, when they are asked to put their social security numbers into the envelope, there's nothing to suggest Delahunt hid is details, so why won't they discover that Timothy Delahunt was BPD?

'then, you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forrest, wiiiiiiiiiiiiith.........a HERRING!'

[–] vandutran 12 years ago

In Infernal Affairs, Delahunt was obviously NOT a cop. So.. there you have it.

[–] stellastey 12 years ago

I think i should get a prize for starting this thread.

[–] Vladimir_Horowitz 12 years ago

LOL on the contrary I think you should get slapped upside the head. :p Your thread has caused me a considerable amount of frustration along with a loss of faith in the deductive reasoning capabilities of moviegoers.

Zaby - That's a really good point. I never thought of that but I'll be sure to lump that it in with the existing avalanche of reasons that there is no way Delahunt was an undercover cop.

[–] stellastey 12 years ago

You might have a point there dude,but i think i still deserve an imdb badge at the very least.

[–] Vladimir_Horowitz 12 years ago

Alright, I'll concede some sort of badge is in order.

[–] tyrexden 12 years ago

Its left up to interpretation, purposefully... If there are earlier scripts or deleted scenes that indicate otherwise, those scenes were again, PURPOSEFULLY excluded from the final film to bring the ambiguity back. So, you are back to square one.

Hence, there is no right or wrong answer. You're SUPPOSED to wonder. I personally feel he was a cop... Thats the only reason for the line, "tell me why i didn't tell no one". What was Leo, supposed to guess..."Umm. so you can die with a better conscience after a life a crime?"... sorry... don't buy it.

Plus, him being a cop makes the scene with him and Fitzy trying to guess who is a cop, more intriguing.

[–] law607 12 years ago

If he was a cop, he would have never been an active participant in the murder of a high ranking police official.

It does not matter how deep you're in or how long you've been under, at the point where a police captain is about to be murdered, he would have reveled himself as a cop or done something to prevent the murder.

Sometimes when you want the devil, you have to go to hell and get him!

[–] tyrexden 12 years ago

As said before, we don't see his involvement in the captain's murder, in any degree. He was just there. Leo saw many innocent people get killed... he didn't reveal himself for any of it...

It makes no logic to say that if he were a cop, he wouldn't allow for the captain to get hurt, yet you ignore the fact that if he were a criminal, why would he allow a rat to not get hurt?

moreover, if the film-makers wanted you to know, one way or the other, they wouldn't make you guess. They wouldn't leave doubt... This plot point is purposefully left in doubt. Thats not how movies work, unless they wanted it that way.

Nor does it explain his last line. Why even HAVE that line, if for any reason other than to indicate he might've been a cop? No other reason for his dialog offered in this thread is even remotely applicable to the story of the movie.

[–] DjokerFan 11 years ago

I believe Delahunt was not a cop, for reasons already stated plus a few of my own.

I understand that being an undercover cop means selling a criminal identity, but no UC in their right mind would engage in a "who's a cop" guessing game with an actual criminal and be able to keep a straight face through the whole thing. Delahunt's extreme comfort in that scene (even when Fitzy discovered that he was full of *beep*) showed that he had nothing to hide. The chemistry between the two of them indicated that they had been friends for many years, quite possibly before ever getting involved with Costello.

Vlad is right; most UC's would release their cover if it ever got to the point where the life of a fellow officer, much less the friggin state police captain, was in danger. Delahunt and Queenan were not terribly outnumbered and Delahunt was the only one with his weapon out at that point. But if you want to believe that Delahunt was still concerned about keeping his cover, then he wouldn't have blown his cover if he had stated "hey guys, the rat escaped. Let's go catch him on his way out of the building. Two of you keep [Queenan] as hostage while we search." The fact is, all five of them were on such a murderous rampage that they were intent on killing whoever they found once the elevator door opened. Even Sullivan acknowledged that killing Queenan was an error in judgment by Costello's guys.

The most telling action of all by Delahunt was the couple of extracurricular shots that he fired at the cops from inside the van, after having already been shot himself! Think about it; if you're a UC who has just been shot in the chest and is now in critical condition, are you really going to keep firing at the cops for the sake of protecting your criminal identity within Costello's organization? If anything, Delahunt would have fired a few at Costello's guys since he was dying anyway. The fact that he fired at the cops showed that he was still loyal to Costello at that point.

As for Delahunt not giving up Costigan, it wasn't so much a desire to protect Bill, but rather that because he was dying he simply didn't care what happened to the good guys or the bad guys anymore. He was sent to get shot on the front lines for Costello's profit and was now left to die on his own on that ragged couch. Costello's absence in that scene shows his apathy, and the other henchmen didn't seem to care either. Delahunt sees the ending to his life before his own eyes and contemplates how he might have done things differently if given the chance to do life over again.

In response to Costello being in disbelief/denial over Delahunt being a "cop," that was more Fitzy's reaction. Costello's reaction was that he has seen this ploy many times before. In response to criminals not feeling any guilt/remorse, I guess Fitzy was a cop too then since even he felt remorse over the excessive violence that was inflicted on Queenan.

If Delahunt was a cop, then what evidence does the movie present of Delahunt's contributions to the police? We see plenty of his contributions to Costello's cause.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mgnt4babes 11 years ago

Not to attack you or your ideals for responding to your post, you were just the most recent "Not-a-cop"er. My questions are (and I just watched the film for the first time, so please inform me if possible):

1. Did they know that it was the Police Chief at the top of the abandoned building? My interpretation was that they were trying to hone in on the "rat" and found the chief alone. I feel like Delahunt couldn't have known who he was running after once he got off the elevator, but I might have missed a plot point.

2. It wasn't clear to me that the people who were shooting from the police car were police officers (pretending I was watching this movie from their eyes). It was an unmarked police car that had 4 people (all of which are in street clothes) opening fire on a well known Boston mob. At this point, I would have been really confused who was shooting at me (of course the argument that they killed the police chief is in order), mostly because of my reputation.

I am not siding one way or another, although the angle of him being a cop is so much sexier for the film.

Can someone help elaborate on these ideas? Just to help me understand that scene in full.

[–] DjokerFan 11 years ago

Well I didn't feel attacked in the slightest. Here are my answers to your questions.

1. Sullivan had informed Costello's gang that Queenan was meeting with the rat in the abandoned building, so they're expecting to see two people once they get to the top. Had they not known who Queenan was before, they would definitely be able to recognize the rat and deduce that the other guy must be Queenan. Fitzy asking him "where's your boy?" clearly indicates they knew who he was.

2. Probably wasn't the first time they were shot at by cops dressed as civilians, so I don't see how the mob would figure them as anyone other than cops. But even if they didn't recognize the shooters as cops it's irrelevant because of, as you said, their reputation. Since they are a well-known Boston mob anyone who shoots at them is doing so on behalf of the "good guys."

Mob movies aren't supposed to be overly sexy. Costigan as a cop was sex enough for this film.

[–] tyrexden 11 years ago

i don't recall Delahunt firing at the plain clothes cops EVER, but heck, even if he did, i wouldn't blame him...

Ever see Resovoir Dogs? The undercover cop gets shot by that lady, and so he shot her right away... He was pissed... Its a normal human reaction.

[–] ZabyPS3 11 years ago

Yes, I'm pretty sure Delahunt doesn't fire at the cops. He takes a shot in the chest, and falls, Fitzy shoots, then they drag Delahunt into the van.

But I agree with all your other points. He cannot be an undercover cop.

'then, you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forrest, wiiiiiiiiiiiiith.........a HERRING!'

[–] Alexander_Delarge_655321 11 years ago

Delahunt was not an undercover cop - an undercover cop would not help throw Queenan over a rooftop to his death.

Go Big Red

[–] noone1647 11 years ago

Maybe he wants Jack Nicholson to go down. "Yer gonna get taken out by one of your own guys..."

[–] law607 11 years ago

Queenen WAS NOT thrown from the roof.

Sometimes when you want the devil, you have to go to hell and get him!

[–] Vladimir_Horowitz 11 years ago

Uhh...yeah he was. What, you think he just happened to trip on some scrap metal moments after he was being manhandled by Costello's guys?

[–] law607 11 years ago

Uhh...yeah he was. What, you think he just happened to trip on some scrap metal moments after he was being manhandled by Costello's guys?

As Costello's guys are making their way to the floor that Billy and Queenan were on...(which appears to be the top floor)

Queenan tells Billy to "take the fire escape, (and points up) if you get made I can't protect you"

Billy then runs up at least two flights of stairs to the fire escape.

Do you think Costello's guys manhandled Quennan around the room, out the door and then up at least two flights of stairs to throw him off the roof?

Also, right as the camera cuts away when Queenan is being asked "where's ya boy"? You can clearly heard the sound of broken glass.

Queenan was thrown out of the window as there is nothing to suggest that he was thrown from the roof top where Billy and Queenan previously met.

The goof in this scene however is that there is no broken glass that follows Queenan down.

Sometimes when you want the devil, you have to go to hell and get him!

[–] DjokerFan 9 years ago

He was thrown from the building at a high enough altitude to which his fall would be to his death. Debating over whether his fall started from the roof or two stories lower is extremely inconsequential.

[–] law607 9 years ago

He was thrown from the building at a high enough altitude to which his fall would be to his death. Debating over whether his fall started from the roof or two stories lower is extremely inconsequential.

Yet, you thought it was important enough to bump it after 8 months?

[–] DjokerFan 9 years ago

I apologize, I didn't realize the imdb message boards had a statute of limitations on how much time I have to respond to a post after it is made. Next time I am browsing the message boards I will pay more attention to the dates at which posts are made so that I don't respond to any arguments that become void because the most recent comment in the thread was made 8 months ago. So that I don't make this dreadful mistake next time, how much time do I have, 3 months? 4?

[–] WorldWar1000 9 years ago

how could Delahunt not be an undercover cop?

{._.}
My eyes are watching you

[–] hero-de-celluloid 9 years ago

In an interview with Scorsese he says there was a deleted scene which goes into more detail. He explains that it is one of his favorite scenes (not sure why it was cut out then) - and talks about reading the script. He asks himself - why didn't Delahunt tell the boys that Billy was an informant in the getaway van, why didn't he tell them at the bar, etc. He gives the impression that he feels he wasn't an undercover cop but then also says "Is Delahunt a cop? That's an interesting point too. One could look at it that way." He doesn't say this is false he wasn't a cop, which he easily could have done - This would imply to me that even Scorsese wasn't sure and it is still up for interpretation - but his feeling (the director) was that he wasn't a cop. So was he cop? I think it is still up for interpretation.

In the script by Monahan - there are some differences reference this. When Delahunt is dying - he tells Billy that he gave him the wrong address (he doesn't say by mistake) he just tells him he gave him the wrong address. So why would he purposefully give him the wrong address - possibly to weed out the rat. Now the movie expressly states it's a mistake - so it depends on how you interpret each.

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[–] DjokerFan 9 years ago

Already explained ad nauseum how Delahunt could not be an undercover cop.

The better question is, how could Delahunt be an undercover cop? The only arguments that have been made towards him being a cop were that he didn't snitch on Billy and the news said he was a cop. We never actually got to find out why he didn't tell anybody about Billy before he died so there goes that, and the latter was finely debunked by Costello.

[–] hero-de-celluloid 9 years ago

Those arguments were flawed. Such as the argument that an undercover wouldn't have let the captain die. Delahunt isn't shown killing the captain. All we see is him pointing a gun at him and taking the captains gun. An undercover would have two choices at that point - let the captain die or expose himself and have the captain die and himself. What do you think would have happened if he exposed himself and tried to save the captain? They both would have died. His intentions wasn't necessarily to kill the captain but to find the informant. The killing could have been an afterthought which he got stuck in the middle and couldn't identify himself. He might not have known they were going to throw him off the building until it was too late. Remember - they weren't looking for the captain - they were trying to find his informant. He might not even have been right there when they did throw him off. He could have been looking around for the informant. He might not have thought they were going to kill him either - in fact - Fitzy says they were too hard on the cop when they were in the bar.

Another argument was how could they not know about each other. Well they were from two different departments and not all departments share information with each other so it certainly wouldn't be out of the ordinary for one department not knowing if another had and undercover.

The argument that Delahunt was shooting at cops as the van was leaving is flawed as he wasn't even aiming - he could have just been throwing his shots to look like he was trying and nobody would know any different. It was just one shot and he wasn't even aiming.

Also when Sullivan is running the social security numbers - Delahunts and Billy's numbers have the same outcome when entered into the computer- "not on file". Now we don't know what the rest of the crew did - did they give real numbers - I don't see why not since Costello told them to - but we do know that the Billy and Delahunt were BOTH not on file - something that would happen if they were undercover (at least it was the same as Billy's).

There is also the fact that Delahunt was found so fast. How was he found so fast? Perhaps Billy told the authorities where he was (anonymously or through Dignam) so he could get a cops funeral.

They also say they used a mugshot and not a police photo for the TV spot, but that makes sense. He was undercover for years - Did Billy have a cop photo that would use? Perhaps he did - but he was undercover for so long and so deep - they might not have any recent photos of him or even any police photos since he was so deep (like Billy) - he could have been off the grid. He was undercover for a decade.

I'm not saying he was or wasn't but the argument that he wasn't had too many flaws to say conclusively.

The way I see it.....

Reasons he wasn’t a cop:

1. The captain was killed – unknown if Delahunt did it or just stood by or was even right there when they did it – if he exposed himself – they both would probably be dead or least that would be a good possibility – they weren’t looking to kill the captain – they were looking for his informant. Also Delahunt specifically says he isn't a murderer and couldn't kill anyone and more importantly NEVER killed anyone. So why would he say NEVER killed anyone when there would have been his boys there to witness it. Perhaps he wasn't there when it happened and didn't know they would kill him.
2. The news didn’t use a police photo – if he was so deep they might not one on file like Billy or not recent one since he was under for a decade
3. The two didn’t know they were undercover – this wouldn’t be unheard of - two agencies not telling the other what they are up to (fairly common) – each want the glory similar to the FBI – feed them *beep* and keep them in the dark
4. Scorsese said he thought he wasn’t a cop – but he also said that being cop “was an interesting point too. One could look at it that way” – So he doesn’t say he wasn’t a cop when he could have – it seems more like he thought he wasn’t but it is still up to interpretation. It's as if after hearing the alternative of him being a cop - Scorsese wasn't sure if he interpreted Monahan's script correctly.
6. Delahunt shoots at cops as he escapes in the van. First it was just one shot and he wasn't even aiming - he could have just thrown a shot to make it look good. Second - he might not even know they were cops - they were undercover and he got shot as soon as he turned around -it could have been a rival for all he knew. They followed the captain and didn't see any other cops with him

Reasons he was a cop:

1. The news said so – it could have been a lie by the police -Sullivan says the cops are lying but he doesn't know - he could have just thought it was a trick so they wouldn't find the real mole - but he might have just been guessing
2. The body was found very fast (possibly Billy telling Dignam so Delahunt could get a cops funeral)– Fitzy was amazed that he was found so quickly and he had practice taking care of bodies - it could have just been a bad burial job and they were very unlucky
3. Sullivan’s computer response when checking social security number for Billy and Delahunt was the same - “none on file” – they all could have lied after Costello told them or we just didn't see the computer respose
4. He didn’t yell to everyone that Billy was a rat, he could have told them in the van or on the couch but he didn’t - he had the entire trip in the van to tell them – this could have just been a change of heart -also in the script - he doesn't say he made a mistake - he tells Billy he GAVE him the wrong place - perhaps he gave the wrong address to keep him out of the situation as he might have figured out his identity already - that might be a stretch
5. This could have foreshadowed the second police mole -or not
6. Delahunt tells him not to put him in a dumpster - perhaps this is because he knew if he did - they wouldn't realize he was a cop and by if the found out he was a cop that would take the heat off of Billy - or he just didn't want to end his life with empty pizza boxes

*** the deleted scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ivCtiKWfw

*** the script
http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Unprocessed/departed.pdf

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[–] DjokerFan 9 years ago

Delahunt isn't shown killing the captain. All we see is him pointing a gun at him and taking the captains gun.

If disarming Queenan so that Fitzy and the other three guys could throw Queenan off the roof with a lot less trouble isn't participating in Queenan's murder than I don't know what is.

An undercover would have two choices at that point - let the captain die or expose himself and have the captain die and himself. What do you think would have happened if he exposed himself and tried to save the captain? They both would have died.

If Delahunt was a cop then he and Queenan outnumbered Fitzy 2 to 1 when they first got off the elevator, and were only outnumbered 4 to 2 when three other guys came through the side door. Delahunt was the only one that ever drew a weapon, and as far as we know, Delahunt and Queenan were the only ones that had weapons on them. Fitzy was very likely using Queenan's gun during the standoff with the other cops.

The argument that Delahunt was shooting at cops as the van was leaving is flawed as he wasn't even aiming - he could have just been throwing his shots to look like he was trying and nobody would know any different. It was just one shot and he wasn't even aiming.

The man just got shot in the chest, had to have been pretty certain that his chances of survival were not good, and you mean to tell me the reason he is still firing away at that point was to "look like he was trying?" That's a good one. Because disarming Queenan so that he may be thrown off the roof more easily and putting himself in the line of fire to take a fatal bullet wasn't enough effort yet *eyeroll*

but we do know that the Billy and Delahunt were BOTH not on file - something that would happen if they were undercover (at least it was the same as Billy's).

Whether Delahunt was working for Costello or BPD, Sullivan wasn't going to find him regardless because he only had info on staties, assuming Delahunt gave his real info. The reason Sullivan couldn't find Costigan was that Dignam kept the info for his rats in a locked file that Sullivan was not privy to. Unless of course, he wanted to come down to the garage with Dignam.

There is also the fact that Delahunt was found so fast. How was he found so fast? Perhaps Billy told the authorities where he was (anonymously or through Dignam) so he could get a cops funeral.

See Vladimir_Horowitz's comment on 10/9/12, he explained that one well enough.

He was undercover for a decade.

Right. Not only is he the worst UC ever if that's the case, but he also has superhuman patience. Billy was UC for one year and already going nuts over it. Now multiply that by ten.

I'll give you that you made successful debunks for reasons 3 and 4.

[–] hero-de-celluloid 9 years ago

If disarming Queenan so that Fitzy and the other three guys could throw Queenan off the roof with a lot less trouble isn't participating in Queenan's murder than I don't know what is.

Not sure if you read the entire post - but just because he disarmed him does not mean he knew they were going to throw him off the building. He could have been looking for the informant when they threw him off. Even Fitsy said they were too hard on the captain - so perhaps Delahunt didn't feel they were going to kill him.

If Delahunt was a cop then he and Queenan outnumbered Fitzy 2 to 1 when they first got off the elevator, and were only outnumbered 4 to 2 when three other guys came through the side door. Delahunt was the only one that ever drew a weapon, and as far as we know, Delahunt and Queenan were the only ones that had weapons on them. Fitzy was very likely using Queenan's gun during the standoff with the other cops.

First Queenan didn't have his gun drawn so Delahunt might have thought he didn't have one or it wasn't accessable. He also knew others were right behind him. So it would have been 3 on 2 not in their favor. Delehunt might have know the others had guns - they were gangsters - why wouldn't they have guns? Why the heck would it be "likely" that Fitzy was using Queenan's gun? He's a gangster.

The man just got shot in the chest, had to have been pretty certain that his chances of survival were not good, and you mean to tell me the reason he is still firing away at that point was to "look like he was trying?" That's a good one. Because disarming Queenan so that he may be thrown off the roof more easily and putting himself in the line of fire to take a fatal bullet wasn't enough effort yet *eyeroll*

First he didn't know his chances weren't good - if you watch the deleted scene - they do make it seem like he has a chance if the vet gets to him. He was ok enough to get his hand gun out and shoot. You are only assuming he knew they were going to throw him off the roof or even kill him. Also - if you read - he might not have known they were cops - they followed Queenan and there were no cops around. Believe it or not - gangsters to have shoot outs with other people other than cops.

Whether Delahunt was working for Costello or BPD, Sullivan wasn't going to find him regardless because he only had info on staties, assuming Delahunt gave his real info. The reason Sullivan couldn't find Costigan was that Dignam kept the info for his rats in a locked file that Sullivan was not privy to. Unless of course, he wanted to come down to the garage with Dignam.

Believe it or not - detective's data bases go beyond their own department.

See Vladimir_Horowitz's comment on 10/9/12, he explained that one well enough.

His explanation is only an assumption - the other explanation is just as plausable.

Right. Not only is he the worst UC ever if that's the case, but he also has superhuman patience. Billy was UC for one year and already going nuts over it. Now multiply that by ten.

Sorry - but undercover cops do go undercover for that long. Pistone was undercover for 7 years - Garcia was undercover for 24 years - although he was undercover in various jobs. Is it a long time - sure - but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

Like I wrote - I don't know which is right or wrong - I do know that nothing definative indicates he was or wasn't - even Scorsese says one could look at Delahunt being a cop.
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[–] law607 9 years ago

Not sure if you read the entire post - but just because he disarmed him does not mean he knew they were going to throw him off the building. He could have been looking for the informant when they threw him off. Even Fitsy said they were too hard on the captain - so perhaps Delahunt didn't feel they were going to kill him.

If Delahunt took away Queenan's only means of protecting himself (gun), then he took part in the murder.

I would go so far as to say that if Delahunt was a UC and did absolutely nothing to protect Queenan, he would still be prosecuted as an accessory for failure to act. You just can't use the excuse to let a police officer die just because you were outnumbered. You break cover and go out swinging.

Believe it or not - detective's data bases go beyond their own department

It's been more than a minute since I've been in CID but I can tell you that no other department, city, state or federal is/was privy to personal information about our UCs or UC operations. That just can't happen.

[–] hero-de-celluloid 9 years ago

Once again - he might not have known they were going to kill him. After he disarmed him - he could have left to look for the informant who they were actually looking for. Thus - he wouldn't have known they were going to kill him. They went further then Fitzy thought they should - so it is valid to think they weren't going to kill him IMO. Killing a captain is pretty f'd up - even for gangsters - they know the heat would be much higher.

I wasn't referring to other UC data bases from other departments - you are correct about that. I was referring to other data bases like social security data bases. I was thinking by entering his SS# he would have gotten a name in case they were using false names. So when Costello asked for their real names and ss#'s - Sullivan could check to see if they matched or if there were any false names. I wasn't thinking he was just checking to see if the ss# was in the their data base of UC's - but that is another way to go.

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[–] DjokerFan 9 years ago

He could have been looking for the informant when they threw him off.

In that scene, Delahunt grabs Queenan's gun, enthusiastically yells "I got the *beep* gun!", and we see him begin to participate in dragging Queenan towards wherever they were dragging him towards. Did Delahunt know that this dragging process would end in Queenan being thrown off the roof and not a brutal beatdown? Maybe not, but he was ready and willing to participate in whatever was about to happen to Queenan which makes him an accessory to any harm done to Queenan. NOTHING in that scene indicates that the thought of leaving the guys to go find Billy ever crossed Delahunt's mind. Billy escaped the building alive and well. Heck, nothing in the following scenes indicate that Delahunt felt any type of way over Queenan's death other than it was part of the job. FITZY of all people showed remorse.

First Queenan didn't have his gun drawn so Delahunt might have thought he didn't have one or it wasn't accessable. He also knew others were right behind him. So it would have been 3 on 2 not in their favor. Delehunt might have know the others had guns - they were gangsters - why wouldn't they have guns? Why the heck would it be "likely" that Fitzy was using Queenan's gun? He's a gangster.

In that scene we see three men run towards Queenan with no intention of using anything other than their bare hands to cause harm to Queenan. Delahunt could have caught them all right there with or without Queenan's help. Whether they were armed or not is irrelevant because Delahunt was in a position to catch them off guard. I will concede that Fitzy probably had another gun, though.

First he didn't know his chances weren't good - if you watch the deleted scene - they do make it seem like he has a chance if the vet gets to him.

Why, because the *beep* vet is sober? That's one hell of a vote of confidence LOL. And just because Fitzy tells Delahunt he is going to be okay doesn't mean Delahunt believes it, or that even Fitzy believes it. Delahunt did tell Billy "don't put me in a dumpster" which is a pretty good indication that Delahunt knew his life was coming to an end.

He was ok enough to get his hand gun out and shoot.

Not exactly rigorous physical labor there. If he was well enough to get back in the gym and bench 500 lbs, then I would believe that Delahunt knew he was going to be fine.

Believe it or not - detective's data bases go beyond their own department.

Sullivan's didn't. He couldn't find a UC in his own department much less someone else's.

His explanation is only an assumption - the other explanation is just as plausable.

It's plausible that the only contact that Delahunt the 10-years-undercover cop would have is someone he just discovered to also be a cop no more than an hour ago?

Pistone was undercover for 7 years

Pistone was undercover for 6 years and it was made into a movie. Did Delahunt shatter Pistone's mark by 66%? I choose to believe not, but hey, if movies like Independence Day taught us anything, it's that anything's possible in the movies.

Garcia was undercover for 24 years - although he was undercover in various jobs.

Exactly

even Scorsese says one could look at Delahunt being a cop.

Scorsese knows there are plenty of movie viewers out there who miss the forest for the trees which is why they "could" look at it that way. That doesn't mean it is correct, possible, or that Scorsese himself believes it correct or possible.

[–] hero-de-celluloid 9 years ago

You make some great points

As far as Pistone - he wasn't the undercover for the longest. I used his example because of his notoriety.

I will concede 10 years is a long time - and that is probably one of the reasons I might lean towards not a cop. My point was that it isn't definitive and I stand by that.

As far as Scorsese - he said "Was he a cop?" - He could have easily said "no" - but he went on to say that is an interesting point too and one could look at that way. If he said he wasn't then one couldn't look it that way.

I'm not saying he was a cop - in fact some arguments do tend me towards the no cop route - but I haven't found any definitive evidence or explanation yet supporting either way (not that there would be one or I need one).

You do make a valid argument and you expressed yourself well - it is a fun debate - I might have to leave it at that. I think we are at point to agree to disagree - at least I am.

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[–] DjokerFan 9 years ago

Sounds good. You make some great points too. Even though I disagreed with most of them you got me thinking, and I respect you for not resorting to personal attacks.

I maintain that there are enough valid reasons to conclusively say Delahunt was not a cop but I will concede that him shooting at the cops is not one of them. Those cops broke protocol. You don't start shooting at people just because they're criminals; criminals have the same protection against being shot at as any other human beings. Nothing Costello's guys were doing at that moment warranted them being shot at like that as they were just trying to get away from the scene and did not pose any immediate danger to the cops or anyone else. The cops never identified themselves, and cop Delahunt or criminal Delahunt could have reasonably figured they were a rival gang and shot at them in self-defense. The cop who was shot in that scene could have been tried for Delahunt's murder had he lived through that which we don't know.

As far as Scorsese - he said "Was he a cop?" - He could have easily said "no" - but he went on to say that is an interesting point too and one could look at that way. If he said he wasn't then one couldn't look it that way.

With all due respect to Scorsese, just because he directed the movie doesn't mean he has the first, last, and only opinion on the characters in the movie. His assertion that it could be looked at either way does not take away my right to definitively declare that Delahunt was not a cop and state my reasons for it. Similarly, had Scorsese agreed with me and definitively declared that Delahunt was not a cop, that wouldn't take away your right to give your reasons for why it's not so clear-cut.

Does anyone else think that Billy came way too close to giving himself away when Costello's guys exited the building and found him kneeling over Queenan's dead body in disbelief and sadness?

[–] hero-de-celluloid 9 years ago

He was one step away from being killed by Queenans dead body...

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[–] DjokerFan 11 years ago

After they drag him in the van, you see his hand reach out of the van to fire 2-3 more rounds, it's very quick but it's there.

[–] Skibidido 9 years ago

I feel sorry for the poor souls who wants everything explained to them and dont want anything left for imagination.

Personally, Im bloody positive that he wasnt a cop. Why didnt he rat Costigan out? Because he was dying and didnt feel like sending this young lad to his death.

[–] evanmang87 9 years ago

He absolutely couldn't be a cop unless this is one of the most poorly written, unrealistic crime dramas ever. Undercover officers are expected to keep up the act and not break character but only to a certain extent. Even if we assume Delahunt did not personally take part in throwing Queenan off the roof, he pulls out a gun and fires at the state police officers who apprehend the crew as they're leaving. There's no way an undercover cop can do that, even if he's supposed to be undercover. At that point he would have been required to drop the act and join his fellow officers, especially following the murder of a state police captain which he personally witnessed.

As to why he didn't snitch on Costigan, the guy is breathing his last dying gasps. What does it matter to him anymore to alert Costello about Billy? Had he not had fatal injuries, it'd be a different story.