MovieChat Forums > Inglourious Basterds (2009) Discussion > Anyone else felt sorry for Zoller?

Anyone else felt sorry for Zoller?

posted 3 years ago by Nina (545)
16 replies | jump to latest

I understand that Shoshanna, especially as a jew didn't want to have anything to do with Zoller.
She just saw a murder in him.
However Zoller was actually pretty nice and gentleman like towards Shoshanna and he still was even tough Shoshanna was being arrogant the whole time.

I could even understand his little outburst at the end when Zoller wanted to talk to her and got refused.
Everyone else would have been angry and disappointed too.
I think that Shoshanna felt at least a bit sorry for him after she shot him.
I think without their weird circumstances they could have fallen in love with each other.

[–] Ace_Spade (9550) 3 years ago

I thought he was a nice kid until his outburst. Then he just came across as entitled and rapey, and if he has that within him, we're not just looking at a soldier who is brave and thinks he's defending his country. We're looking at a character with the same fascist mindset as the worst of his peers. So, no, I did not. I felt sorry for Shoshanna, who's whole life has been made Hell by some people who just didn't like her DNA and her religion, so they slaughtered her family and forced her to live in fear and anguish.

[–] Ranb (9692) 3 years ago

Well said.

[–] Ace_Spade (9550) 3 years ago

Thank you.

I think Inglourious Basteds does a good job of questioning who is guilty or innocent, what good and bad mean, and who heroes are during war. I think it shows us the Basterds being barbarous and it shows us the nobility of, for instance, the German officer beaten down by the Bear Jew.

One of the ways it does that (really well, I think) is by showing us Zoller, who seems nice, but turns out is a total, well, bastard.

[–] Nina (545) 3 years ago

He came across as rapey? No way!
He was hurt! He was so nice towards Shoshanna the whole time while she was being cold as ice.
It is understandable that he got upset, especially when he was interested in her.

That are my thoughts, just to see it from his point of view.

[–] Ace_Spade (9550) 3 years ago

He literally tries to rape her. So, yes. He's rapey.

Being hurt is understandable. I have been the recipient of unrequited love. It made me miserable. It's a hard thing to deal with. You know what I didn't do? Sexually assault anybody.

I can see things from his point of view to an extent, and I can empathize with his emotions and frustrations, but not with his actions.

[–] Nina (545) 3 years ago

Ok, so please tell me how he tried to rape her without even touching her? lol
All he did was to hit the door open.

[–] Ace_Spade (9550) 3 years ago

I rewatched the scene. I stand corrected. He doesn't try to rape her.

I do believe he was about to, though, and he is at the very least behaving inappropriately. He is menacing her and (in my opinion) he means to do physical violence to her.

Some of the language used ("I'm not a man you say 'go away' to") implies that Frederick doesn't think "no means no". He only stops menacing her when Shoshanna tells him to lock the door and that they don't have much time. I think it's a pretty clear implication that he thinks she's going to have sex with him. If I'm adding two and two up, I'd say his physical threat earlier was leading up to rape because he only stops when she implies he'll get what he wants, anyway.

So while I will remove my charge of attempted rape, I still think rape was incipient. Regardless, I think he's a self-involved jerk who couldn't take a clear "Buzz off". Shoshanna says it best: "Are you so used to the Nazis kissing your ass you've forgotten what the word 'no' means?"

[–] Nina (545) 3 years ago

Thanks for your point of view.
But when Shoshanna told him to close the door and that they don't have much time, Frederick looked completely surprised! To me that meant he did not even had the thought of having sex, just an explaination of shoshannas behaviour.

[–] Ace_Spade (9550) 3 years ago

Thanks, also, for your perspective here.

I think the surprise was because she did a 180 degree turn from cussing him out and telling him to screw off to insinuating that they should actually screw - all in a couple seconds. I think the surprise registered was because she "warmed up" really fast.

[–] Nina (545) 3 years ago

Yes, I get your point.

However I truly think he just had good intentions with her.
He, the german pride guy was in love with a woman who was french. That is not typical nazi behaviour.
And during the cinema show Frederick could not enjoy his own movie cause he had to think about shoshanna.

I see it in a romantic way.

[–] Ace_Spade (9550) 3 years ago

That's fair. I can see where Zoller thought he was being nice, or was trying to be. And at first, I did think he was charming and nice, although he annoyed and angered Shoshanna. I think that's fair, too; she probably doesn't look on the German military and Nazi war engine with charity for good reason.

Where Zoller lost me is in that scene. When he's affable and kind, he's fine. But he shows a real dark side at the end there. Basically, I see him as a guy who is fine if he's getting his own way, but when he's told "no" he can't handle it. He's self-important, self-entitled, and when he gets nasty with Shoshanna, he's showing his true colours, or at least his "dark side". Okay, she hurt his feelings. So what? He gets to smash his way into the room and intimidate her? Not in my opinion.

[–] Wuchak (8747) 2 years ago

That's my take on Zoller as well -- he showed his true colors in that scene. As nice as he seemed to be up to that point, it turns out he's actually an arrogant Nazi bastage who couldn't handle the rejection of a beautiful French lass, turning to rage on a dime.

[–] Ace_Spade (9550) 2 years ago

I think it's a deliberate dig at people who mask repugnant qualities with faux-kindness and then get grumpy when told off for them. Zoller is that guy, "But I'm a nice guy!" who thinks he is "owed" a woman because he woos her romantically.

Django Unchained features this a lot more, with Calvin Candie putting on airs of sophistication and being a good host, even while the majority of those staying at his estate are treated as subhumans.

Ultimately, that's a good contrast in IB, as well. We see the hooliganistic style of the Basterds themselves, put up against the often dignified personnae of the Nazis, but at the end of the day, the cause being fought for matters.

[–] bobbydallas (8534) 3 years ago

i don't feel sorry for him, he was more obsessed with winning her than anything related to love or attraction.
a big hero like him shouldn't get turned down by anyone!

[–] Druff (1800) 2 years ago

He got the answer 'no' over and over and over, but wouldn't take no for an answer. She obviously wasn't merely 'playing hard to get.' She wanted nothing to do with him and she made that very clear. He didn't care what she wanted. No, I don't feel sorry for him.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7704) 2 years ago

I agree, Druff! I didn't feel bad for him cause he didn't care what Shoshana really thought of him. He was forcing himself on her whether she wanted it or not. Plus he was a Nazi and I do not condone the Nazis. They were all a bunch of no goods.