He was a character who tried to follow his heart and his religion and got screwed for it! I felt so bad, as the ending doesn't resolve his situation at all, even his mom gets along just fine, what happened to joe?? Does the play resolve this?
shareI most certainly feel bad for Joe. He is probably the one with which I identify the most, because he went through an enormous religious struggle that the other gay characters apparently didn't go through. Having gone through (and thankfully gotten through) my own religious struggle with my sexuality, he is the character that is easiest for me to connect to. It was a horrible thing for him to do, marrying Harper and participating in anti-gay politics, but at the same time I see so clearly why he did it. When you are told from birth that something is a sin, it takes a WHOLE, WHOLE lot to convince you otherwise, and there are many people who are never convinced. I was lucky enough to live in the 2000's. Had I lived in the 1980's, during the AIDS crisis and during a time of greater general discrimination against the gay community, I might still be in the middle of my struggle, trying to be Christian and still imagining that I'd marry a woman and raise and family as a way to get rid of my gayness. Compound that with the fact that Joe was raised not Christian, but Mormon, and it creates an even harder trap for him to escape. The Mormon church has always been much more harsh towards gays than the Christian church. I'd say they're even worse than Southern Baptist... much worse, come to think of it (which is saying quite a lot).
I believe those who sympathize with Joe Pitt are or were at one time religious, and those who don't sympathize with Joe Pitt were never religious and thus don't understand just how much he was going through. I'd say he had it worse than any of the gay characters in the play, and that includes Pryor.
Proud member of SHREWS (Society for the Honor Required of Eyes Wide Shut)
When Harper asks Joe if he's gay, what was his answer? (Paraphrasing, of course) "What difference does it make what I am, as long as I live right" (as defined by the Mormon church, of course). And then when Harper asked him what he prayed for, he said he prayed for God to break him into a pieces and start all over.
How can you not have sympathy for this poor conflicted man?
To imply that he married Harper to be his beard is just silly. He wasn't using her to hide his homosexuality, he was trying to deny it with her. By all evidence, he NEVER acted on his homosexual urges until he finally left--he went to the park and watched (Louis knows he was with a virgin--he said so the first time Joe said he loved him). That's not a beard. That's a messed up man marrying a woman for all the wrong reasons. Gay men are hardly the only ones to make that mistake.
This is a man in crisis from the moment we meet him. Calling his mother in the middle of the night to confess his homosexuality was a screaming cry for help, and for that he got hung up on. It wasn't just the church. It was a father who didn't love him (his mom admitted that to him) and a cold, un-nurturing mother.
All Joe wanted, all he needed, was acceptance, and to be loved. And absolutely everywhere he turned to find one of those two things, he got slapped in the face. By Roy when he realized that all this time Roy had just been grooming him to actually BE his butt boy as his lackey at the Justice Department (though Clearly Roy was making sexual moves on Joe, you just need to look at Joe's face when Louis screams "He has AIDS!" to know Joe hadn't even realized Roy Cohn was gay). By his mother, who hung up on him at the moment in his life when he needed her the most (his phone call is actually one of my favorite scenes in the series--it's absolutely heartbreaking). By Louis, who rebuffed absolutely every sincere proclamation of love from Joe, and then literally threw his life's work in his face without giving him the slightest chance to explain (really, is it such a surprise that someone as deeply closeted and conflicted as Joe Pitt would write those decisions?)--or to change.
Everything about Joe is tragic. He wants to do the right thing. He just doesn't know what that is, and has no one to help him figure it out.
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When Harper asks Joe if he's gay, what was his answer? (Paraphrasing, of course) "What difference does it make what I am, as long as I live right" (as defined by the Mormon church, of course). And then when Harper asked him what he prayed for, he said he prayed for God to break him into a pieces and start all over.
How can you not have sympathy for this poor conflicted man?
To imply that he married Harper to be his beard is just silly. He wasn't using her to hide his homosexuality, he was trying to deny it with her. By all evidence, he NEVER acted on his homosexual urges until he finally left--he went to the park and watched (Ben knows he was with a virgin--he said so the first time Joe said he loved him). That's not a beard. That's a messed up man marrying a woman for all the wrong reasons. Gay men are hardly the only ones to make that mistake.
This is a man in crisis from the moment we meet him. Calling his mother in the middle of the night to confess his homosexuality was a screaming cry for help, and for that he got hung up on. It wasn't just the church. It was a father who didn't love him (his mom admitted that to him) and a cold, un-nurturing mother.
All Joe wanted, all he needed, was acceptance, and to be loved. And absolutely everywhere he turned to find one of those two things, he got slapped in the face. By Roy when he realized that all this time Roy had just been grooming him to actually BE his butt boy as his lackey at the Justice Department (though Clearly Roy was making sexual moves on Joe, you just need to look at Joe's face when Ben screams "He has AIDS!" to know Joe hadn't even realized Roy Cohn was gay). By his mother, who hung up on him at the moment in his life when he needed her the most (his phone call is actually one of my favorite scenes in the series--it's absolutely heartbreaking). By Louis, who rebuffed absolutely every sincere proclamation of love from Joe, and then literally threw his life's work in his face without giving him the slightest chance to explain (really, is it such a surprise that someone as deeply closeted and conflicted as Joe Pitt would write those decisions?)--or to change.
Everything about Joe is tragic. He wants to do the right thing. He just doesn't know what that is, and has no one to help him figure it out.
Agreed, people always say 'well he's an adult now, he should know better', but if you've spent a lifetime being taught to behave a certain way, how can you magically change your morals when you turn 18? 21? Joe had problems, family problems, way deeper than being gay and no tools to solve those problems.
Rhonda Weasley
http://www.rhondaweasley.com
That's why he's probably the most underrated character in it.
shareThoughtful commentary here! I think Joe was one of the more complex characters. At times, I felt sympathy for Joe and other times I thought he was immensely selfish.
shareI lost any sympathy I had for Joe, when he tells Louis that it is brave to leave someone you have committed to because your relationship with them may cause you pain. "You deserve to be happy.", so forget your unconditional love to your partner, who you have sworn to love forever. He lied to his choosen partner, his wife, who was also suppose to be his friend, and caused her even more pain by saying it was her fault he had problems with being a good husband.(He could have been an honest man and tell her the truth without torturing her.) His years of twisting the law, without any thought of what that work might actually do to good innocent people. He didn't care as long as he was paid. This man is as evil as Roy, and I fear for a world with him in it.
This is how I feel today.
This is how I feel everyday!
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As much as I love this film/seenplay, I have to concede that the way it treats the Joe Pitt character is asinine. Tony Kushner is stressing a message of forgiveness throughout the play and yet while he's able to somehow absolve Roy Cohn at the end, he can't quite bring himself to absolve Joe. It's probably due to Kushner's fiercly anti-Republican politics.
Patrick Wilson's performance is excellent, however.
"What I don't understand is how we're going to stay alive this winter."
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Although Cohn doesn't do anything to facilitate this (and at one point, he actually tries to prevent it), his "secret stash" of AZT is the reason that Prior is still alive five years after the end of the main action of the play. Some audience members and scholars interpret this as Kushner ceding a small measure of redemption to Cohn--even to Cohn, arguably one of the least redeemable people in American history--while still not seeming to change or improve things for Joe.
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I think it was actually Wilson's portrayal of Joe that makes him a (somewhat) sympathetic character. I really didn't care for Joe when I read the play but after watching the mini-series I found myself feeling sorry for him.
It's interesting, I love Harper and she's actually my favorite character in 'Angels' but I didn't hate Joe. To certain extent he's even more likeable than Louis (who's also grown on me as a character). It's really hard for me to hate any of the characters (with the exception of Roy). They're human beings and humans beings are very flawed.
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I know he couldn't help how he was raised, but after you get away from your roots and start living your own life, you shouldn't have to lie to yourself anymore. Well, I kind of liked him least of all. I watched this wonderful miniseries over the weekend and really disliked him. He made his problem Harper's problem and blamed her for his non-attraction to her as taking pills and being red-faced and sweaty and that was the reason he didn't want to have sex with her. He denied his own sexuality so fiercely that he nearly drove his wife insane! I hated him for that. She begged him for the truth in nearly every scene they were in and he denied it. She knew the truth (or suspected it) and if he'd admitted it, I think they could have parted friends. When someone lies to you and makes you feel bad about yourself because of the way YOU feel about yourself, that is the most selfish act I can think of. I hate people like that. I love RuPaul's Drag Race, and I keep hearing her words "If you can't love yourself - how the hell you gonna love somebody else." Very true.
"Well, make something up!"/RG
I agree with your quote. But I felt sympathy for Joe because he was afraid to search for himself. Unlike Roy who lied (in my opinion). First he begs his wife to save him. Then he begs Louis to save him. But you are correct, you must save yourself before you have anything to give to someone else.
The story is brave in that Joe is adrift. Listening to his court decisions reflect his disconnect with his soul. Sure he fought for corporations, but his words serve to isolate him, not enlighten him. He will continue to wander until he can fight for the life he wants. He is the key to his happiness.
If we can save humanity, we become the caretakers of the world
Despite the vast physical suffering of Pryor and Roy, I believe Joe was actually the most sympathetic character of all. In a word, he was lost. His heart, his soul, and his mind were desolate. He had little sense of direction and his only sense of identity came from his roles as Mormon and husband. He secretly resented the path he had been forced to embrace, yet did his best every day to dutifully serve his god. When he finally strayed from it, the reason was love. What Joe saw in Louis was the salvation and means of escape he had longed for since childhood. That was how he could so quickly and easily give over his love.
Joe's abrupt departure and complete lack of responsibility to Harper was deeply selfish, if somewhat understandable. Joe felt trapped his entire life, struggling fiercely with his sexuality, devoid of any real passion. When he finally made the leap of love, he did so with reckless abandon equal to the depths of his emptiness. The walls of his heart were like a dam holding back his true needs and desires. The realization that being with Louis felt right caused the dam to burst, which flooded his body with a euphoric sense of freedom and hope he'd never known. How could he resist something so powerful and profound?
The fact that his story is the only one without a resolution is especially sad. Judging by his absence in the last scene, he likely disappeared altogether. I'd like to think his experience changed him forever and that he never chose to return to a life of secrets and lies. Still it's strange that his mother was able to bond with every young man save him.
Tony Kushner should write a play solely about Joe haha...but seriously
shareI agree - Joe is the character that most touched me because not only was he lost, but he was completely "written off" by the playwright and the other characters. Why is this man more "unforgivable" than Roy Cohn?! or for that matter Louis who not only dumps Prior in the hospital but then goes to have an affair with a man who he knows is Republican and closeted, and then reviles him for having conservative viewpoints. Frankly I found Louis to be the most unsympathetic character in the play - I truly found him repellent. I thought the actor who played Joe did a superb job and should have been recognized for it. And yeah, not remotely believable in a trillion years that his mother would be bonding with every other gay man in the play except her own son.
Of course. Kushner doles out a measure of compassion for all the characters, even the detestable Roy Cohn.
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