Punjabis obsessed about Punjab - Bend It Like Beckham (2003) Discussion

[–] dutchgrl22 17 years ago

Perhaps the director is more familiar with the culture of the Punjabi, and therefore felt more comfortable writing all her characters as such.

Behind every great man, is a woman rolling her eyes.

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[–] Movie_junkie22 17 years ago

I see what you're saying but India is very diverse. I don't think Punjabis are totally obsessed as such, but its more of an identity. Bhangra, for example, originated in the Punjab, which is why in Bollywood as an instance you will see most Punjabis. They do incorporate North indian elements like the Hindi language as well. But in South India(in Kerala, etc), the language spoken is completely diffrent from Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu(the latter are very similar to eachother so people of who speak these languages can understand one another). They also have their own style of music and dance diffrent from that of the Punjab. Re: the movie, I understand what you're saying. I guess since this family was in England, they had to maybe reassert their identity to show that not all Indian people share the same culture in terms of language, music, etc. On another note in "Where's the Party, Yaar"? with Kal Penn takes place in the US and people from all religions from India hang out together (South Indians, North Indians, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs, etc) at school because they have the Indian culture in common. I think your idea for a movie is cool, as it is an original concept.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] parihav 17 years ago

I am a Hindu Punjabi, and I am very much INDIAN and therefore would like to be called so. Most Punjabi's also feel this way (although there are some Punjabi's, who wish to form their own country, however they are in a minority).

When it comes to identity, outside of India people do consider and call themselves Indian when they meet other non Indians, but in India, people associate themselves from what state they, even if they are not Punjabi. For example, you have strong identities in Bombay with being from Maharashtra etc.

And yes, Punjabis are proud of their culture and yes I can understand how we throw it in other peoples faces. It just so happens that many of the producers and actors are of Punjabi background in Bollywood (anybody with surname Puri, Kapoor, Khanna, Deol, Roshan, Chopra etc and others), thats why the make movies as such.

But when it comes to this movie specifically, you have to consider the fact that there are almost half a million Sikhs, all of whom are Punjabi living in the UK, and Hindus as well as Muslims in the Uk of Punjabi background. Also, the director is Punjabi, and Punjabis are very strict and can get violent when it comes to interracial relationships. Therefore, considering all of these factors, choosing a Punjabi family in this movie made sense.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

They could have had a gujrati family as they are a plenty in the UK and US.
As for punjabis, they are loud and boisterous, thats why fun to be with. They do tend to be self obsessed at times, raving about "punjabi culture", but in a country like India with tonnes of religions and diverse states, i think you need to be a bit loud to be heard.

I am a hindu (non punjabi) from delhi and as much as i enjoy the company of my loud, fun loving punjabi friends, i hate it when they get ostentatious and rude.

"I no longer know who I am, and I feel like the ghost of a total stanger."

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

True true..thats why she again showed a punjabi family in Bride and prejudice.

"I no longer know who I am, and I feel like the ghost of a total stanger."

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Pinky2000 17 years ago

I am so glad someone summed this up for me. I love the Indian culture but had no idea whatsoever that there was so much diversity within the country itself.

In my mind, I just assumed if you were Indian - you were Indian. Not that I am trying to generalize it, I am just glad to have learned something new.

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

I am so glad someone summed this up for me. I love the Indian culture but had no idea whatsoever that there was so much diversity within the country itself.

In my mind, I just assumed if you were Indian - you were Indian. Not that I am trying to generalize it, I am just glad to have learned something new.

Well there are about 7 distinct endogamous racial groups in the Indian subcontinent, with racial mixes and phenotype continuum. This ranges from the Mongoloid Apatani people of Arunachal Pradesh

http://joachimj.club.fr/imagearunachal2/11%20apatani%204.jpg

to the Greek-descended Caucasoid Kalash

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Kalasha_Man.jpg

Most Indians are "in betweens" so to speak. Made that way through several millenia of intermarriage/interbreeding.

http://www.businessinnovationinsider.com/images/2006/02/Indian%20Natio nal%20Knowledge%20Commission.jpg

Indian blood is pretty diverse, ranging from Mongolian to Veddoid, Greek, Pathrian, Hun, Azeri, Turkish, Persian, Tibeto-Burman, Cambodian...

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] bowtie-3 17 years ago

I agree. This certainly puts things into perspective since I am not famiiar with the Indian cultures (pardon me if I'm not being politically correct). I think many minorities can see themselves in this film. I am Filipino and the few Filipino American films I've seen show the cahracters in a similar light. Very informative thread.

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

Why are Punjabis so obsessed with their own state, own people and own culture?

and why shouldn't they be? Punjabis have contributed a lot to the country's history and culture , their own native script, the Khalsa, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Golden Temple which that Communist biatch Indira Gandhi tried to raze, the Sikh regiments in the Army...

No race that doesn't advocate for itself deserves any consideration, the Punjabis are only doing what they should.

Punjabis are all xenophobic.

You're confusing xenophobia with ethnocentrism, and Punjabi ethnocentrism in India might save us from the next foreign invasion. They've been India's effective gatekeepers for centuries, after all, dating all the way back to Porus and Dahir and the Mallaha (well the Mallaha were part Punjabi part Sindhi, but close enough anyways). Punjabi ethnocentrism creates an overbearing culture, true, but it also makes them formidable fighters. You pick a fight with a Punjabi and you can pretty much expect to hold your own pancreas after five seconds. Hell even the Afghans would tremble in their shoes whenever a Punjabi Army marched in their direction...

In Pakistan, it's different. Punjabi ethnocentrism in Pakistan, corrupted by Sunni Islam, causes them to kill the Shia Baluch, but Indian Punjabis are not like that at all.

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

With all your talk of ethnocentrism, how the hell do you explain the concept of khalistan??
You obviously dont have your facts right buddy, punjabis (and sikhs) tried to break the country

"You pick a fight with a Punjabi and you can pretty much expect to hold your own pancreas after five seconds. Hell even the Afghans would tremble in their shoes whenever a Punjabi Army marched in their direction...
"
Gimme a break, you really are going overboard on this one boy.
And is this what people dislike about punjabis, ie. lack of manners, sophistication, picking up a fight with anybody irrespective of age and gender and with no reason at all..
There is always a scope of improvement buddy..

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

the concept of khalistan

They wouldn't be the first people in South Asia to want to secede. Besides, all that Khalistan stuff was spread by a small group of fanatics lead by Bhindranwale. You should also remember that the Khalistan terrorist insurgency was halted by a Punjabi himself (KPS Gill).

And is this what people dislike about punjabis, ie. lack of manners, sophistication, picking up a fight with anybody irrespective of age and gender and with no reason at all..

Nice little racist diatribe there buddy. How many Punjabis do you actually know?

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

"Nice little racist diatribe there buddy. How many Punjabis do you actually know? "
I live in Delhi, so that makes for a huge punjabi friend list(hell, my girls punjabi, and she knows I am writing this)
Whatever I said about punjabis above, despite the fact some of my closest pals and family friends are punjus, is generally true(as they say, exceptions are always there).
After all there is a reason the Punjabi stereotype of a fun loving, exuberant, rude,rowdy,and most importantly - not to be trusted in a business deal, is formed.

I am not a racist buddy, I am a realist.Please do not be offended by my views.
I have actually debated over these with my punju friends.

As for Khalistan,I agree you have a point.

Still your point about Punjabis vs Afghans had me in splits, you really crossed the line there pal.

Punjabis tend to exaggerate owing to their boisterous nature (which is endearing).

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

After all there is a reason the Punjabi stereotype of a fun loving, exuberant, rude,rowdy,and most importantly - not to be trusted in a business deal, is formed.

You sound exactly like some Russian anti-Semite ranting against Jews.

I am not a racist buddy, I am a realist.

Sure! So is David Duke. lol!

Still your point about Punjabis vs Afghans had me in splits, you really crossed the line there pal.

Ever read history books? There is a reason why the British called the Punjabis "Martial".

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

"You sound exactly like some Russian anti-Semite ranting against Jews"
You sound like a moron.
OR, YOU NEED TO MINGLE, get out sometime, meet NON PUNJABIS... Just get out of your refugee camp,trailer,loft,cab,bus wherever you are living.
Your too stuck up buddy(M sure you've heard that before)

"Sure! So is David Duke. lol!"
Dont try to sound smarter than you are boy!!

"Ever read history books? There is a reason why the British called the Punjabis "Martial".'
Blow me, your claim is still absurd.. You must be the village idiot of jalandhar everybody (ie.PUNJABIS) talks about.

You have to be the few DUMB punjus I came across(a rarity I admit)

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

OR, YOU NEED TO MINGLE, get out sometime, meet NON PUNJABIS... Just get out of your refugee camp,trailer,loft,cab,bus wherever you are living.
Your too stuck up buddy(M sure you've heard that before)

So the racist finally outs himself with his stereotyping, scapegoating and ad-hominem attacks. oh well.

You have to be the few DUMB punjus I came across(a rarity I admit)

I'm a Bengali, so there!

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

YOU ARE A BENGALI..??????????? OMFG
OMFG...
I dont really believe you though.
I know plenty of Bengalis and none of them would support the Punjabis so vehemently(or any other caste).And you can kiss arse if you tell me that you are a "true indian" and you believe that all cultures are equal and all the crap.
Even if you are a Bengali and support Punjabis for some weird inexplicable reason.... Well then, YOU NEED HELP.

YES, I tend to stereotype.
Why?? because they exist. We stereotype because we observe a common trait amongst ppl of some particular kind(putting it loosely).
As for scapegoating - Are you telling me that I am making a scapegoat out of Punjabis from some personal observations??? LOL,cry me a river bongo!! what a nonsensical reason.
As for ad-hominem attacks - my points are absolutely solid.I deduced from your post on Gandhi that you are an NRI in US.Well desiboy, what the *beep* do you know about India sitting there?? Just because you live with people of mixed cultures(from india) doesnt make you a "complete indian".
I live in INDIA,I have travelled all across my country, so I know all about the cultures first hand.My claim are not flimsy, nor are they formed by any personal anger towards ppl of the subject culture, my statements are my interpretation of experiences, something I shared with people of all cultures.
Maybe you are dyslexic and could not read my earlier posts properely.
Here we go again- Most of my friends are punjabis, I love them, but that does not mean I turn a blind eye to their short comings. All over India, Punjabis are known for what I described in earlier posts.

Now coming on to BENGALIS.
Yes, you have tempted me to unleash my stereotypical fury again.
As I mentioned I have travelled all across India, spent 4 years in Maharashtra(more on Marathis later), and I did have the chance to interact with Bengalis.
Let me tell you something bongo, dont just use BIG words without fully understanding their meaning. You have a vocublary but you lack BRAINS.
I have destroyed enough Bongs in debates to know where they stand.
True, they make up for one of the best english writers in the country, but that doesnot mean each one of you Machar jhol eating morons is a la Shoba de or Amitav Ghosh.

If I were to choose between a Bong and a Punju - it would definitely be a Punju, you know why?? because Bongs are pansies,they are big on words but small on action,also they HATE HINDI, YES THEY HATE HINDI, they cant digest the fact that their language is not the national language, they go about flaunting their limited vocublary in english trying to prove a point, but mostly fail to do so.

If you are half Punjabi and Half Bengali, I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.
If you are a Punjabi, then you are stupid not to understand the theme of my posts and my views.
If you are a BONG- well, as I said before, YOU need help.

Either way my comments dont make me a racist, go find a new word boy.
We all stereotype, WE ALL DO. I am yet to meet a person who doesnt. If you dont then you probably never got out of the house.
It might be wrong to prejudge a person based on his ethinicity or have prejudices against different cultures, but thats the shrieking reality, WE ALL DO THAT, ofcourse we are proven wrong at times, but as I said before there is a reason WE ALL form stereotypes.

Now go through all my previous post, and this one, and please reply only if you have a plausible retort.(like for khalistan)

Do not reply with BIG words which are pretentious and lack depth vis a vis this conversation.

ADIOS BONGO.

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

YOU ARE A BENGALI..??????????? OMFG
OMFG...
I dont really believe you though.
I know plenty of Bengalis and none of them would support the Punjabis so vehemently(or any other caste).And you can kiss arse if you tell me that you are a "true indian" and you believe that all cultures are equal and all the crap.
Even if you are a Bengali and support Punjabis for some weird inexplicable reason.... Well then, YOU NEED HELP.

LOL,cry me a river bongo!! what a nonsensical reason.

Machar jhol eating morons

You have a vocublary [sic] but you lack BRAINS.

If I were to choose between a Bong and a Punju - it would definitely be a Punju, you know why?? because Bongs are pansies,they are big on words but small on action

So you graduate from anti-Punjabi racism to anti-Bengali racism. Yahya Khan would love you. Maybe you went with him while he slaughtered 3 million Bengalis in 1971.

YES, I tend to stereotype.

Then you're a racist *beep*

Why?? because they exist.

No. Stereotypes are unfair racist generalizations by definition. Just because some Jews deal in banks doesn't mean all Jews are bankers. Just because some Jewish leaders were involved in the crucification of Christ doesn't make all Jews "Christ-killers". Just because some blacks are criminals doesn't mean all blacks are criminals. Just because some Germans were Nazis doesn't mean all Germans are Nazis.

Just because some Punjabis are aggressive and boisterous doesn't mean all Punjabis are. There are many friendly and sensitive Punjabis out there.

We stereotype because we observe a common trait amongst ppl of some particular kind(putting it loosely).

yes, but only racists use that purported trait as an ethnic slur, as you did.

As for ad-hominem attacks - my points are absolutely solid.I deduced from your post on Gandhi that you are an NRI in US.Well desiboy, what the *beep* do you know about India sitting there??

I know enough to spot a racist a mile away (or a kilometer if you like). You'd fit in nicely with Neo-Nazis here in the US. They say the same thing about Blacks and Jews that you say about Punjabis and Bengalis. Hell I'll bet there are some self-loathing racist Indians like you secretly trolling Neo-Nazi forums waxing on about how they are the "true Aryans" and Bengalis, Punjabis and Tamils are "filthy untouchable Dalit Dravids" or some such pseudohistorical rubbish.

That sectarian racists like you even exist is a national embarassment. You'll reduce India to the level of Iraq someday.

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

"So you graduate from anti-Punjabi racism to anti-Bengali racism. Yahya Khan would love you. Maybe you went with him while he slaughtered 3 million Bengalis in 1971"
Again pointless argument, just because you read a few pages of History doesnt mean you can put up a sensible front.

There is a difference between stereotyping and racism. Racism exists from an irrational hatred toward ppl of a particular color or ethinicity.
Stereotyping can exist anywhere.I can stereotype ppl of different cultures or even ppl from a particular work group and so on..It necessarily doesnt insinuate hatred toward that culture/workgropu etc.
Moreover, IF YOU HAD READ MY POSTS PROPERLY, you moron, you would have noticed a few words that mention that I DO NO HATE PUNJABIS(i like punjabis actually), the same goes for Bengalis. I DO NOT HATE THEM just for the heck of it. Just because I am smarter than you and able to find fualts(glaring personality traits) does NOT make me a RACIST.
You mention that there are many Punjabis who are friendly and sensitive.
You bloody moron, WHY CANT YOU READ MY POSTS PROPERLY. Why the *beep* would I make friends with them and then criticise them if I didnt like any of them. You jerk, why dont you realise what I say is a mere GENERALISATION. How many Punjabis DO U KNOW??? Obviously not enough to form an opinion. I know plenty to generalise. I mentioned in some post that EXCEPTIONS are always there (DID YOU GO *beep* BLIND WHEN THIS LINE TURNED UP??????)
Your irrational usage of the word Racist clearly indicates that you have been at the receiving end plenty of times in the US, well I feel sorry about that.
But thats not how things work here. In other words I represent the voice of India, you know why?? because thats how everybody feels, thats how things work, at least in INDIA. ppl generalise/stereotype all the time, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, and I mean ALL OVER THE COUNTRY
You have no right to post in this topic because you pretty obviously dont know anything about India. I have met thouasands of ppl all across the country of different cultures/regions, and I am obviously more apt at making these comments than you.
What you call is Racism, is called stereotyping in INDIA, and Yes, there is a major difference between the two.You have absolutely no knowledge about our country to make comments like that.My statements MAYBE branded as Racist in the US, but NOT IN INDIA, NOT IN INDIA.As I said before I speak for all the Indians(LIVING HERE) and uninitiated NRIs like you can keep their bloody mouth shut.

"You'd fit in nicely with Neo-Nazis here in the US. They say the same thing about Blacks and Jews that you say about Punjabis and Bengalis. Hell I'll bet there are some self-loathing racist Indians like you secretly trolling Neo-Nazi forums waxing on about how they are the "true Aryans" and Bengalis, Punjabis and Tamils are "filthy untouchable Dalit Dravids" or some such pseudohistorical rubbish"

Ohh puhlease.....this pretentious crap which is completely irrelevent to this conversation is only a waste of my time.
Moreover I read your comments on the Gandhi thread wiseguy, and its pretty obvious from those that not only YOU ARE A RACIST(by your comments against whites), also you are pretty much disliked by the Indians.

You know what, at this point it doesnt matter what culture/ religion/ caste you represent, i dont give a *beep* if your a Punjabi or a Muslim or a Bengali or a Gujrati.. because you more than anything else you are pathetic human beinge(LOSER as you americans would call it).
Let me draw a character sketch of yours - I am a psychology grad, so dont bloody argue with me on this one oldman.
You have obviously been at the receiving end of Racism in the US, maybe you were beaten by the whites and harrassed by the blacks, It is for this reason only you have hatred against them(as was CLEAR from your posts on the Gandhi board...YOU ARE A RACIST, time to wake up oldman)
Your intentions are fairly positive as you wish to unite India, maybe thats why you defended Punjabis in the first place.
But you fail to see things from OUR prespective(OUR means all Indians living in INDIA).
Its about time you learnt the truth about your motherland - THIS IS HOW WE ARE. YES we Stereotype, but we still love and co-exist with everybody.
You call me a "national embarassment."?? then each and every Indian is a national embarassment as per your dumb logic.
I understand you wish to "unite" the country and all that jazz, I would suggest you mind your own *beep* business and do not meddle in affairs of which you know nothing about/do not concern you.
There is a reason no one likes you old man - and that is you are ARROGANTLY IRRATIONAL, hardly any of your posts made sense, you used terms like neo nazis and jews and what not.. well get this old man, they hardly make any sense in the context of our conversation. What you say might be relevant in the US,but not here,no sir.
Coming back to your posts on the Gandhi, do you actually think you contributed anything to the fruitful to the board?? do you really think you are not a Racist??
It was pretty clear from that posts that you failed to get the respect you yearned for, and its been a deja vu here too.You spoke proudly about Bobby jindal, let me tell you something about Bobby jindal- HE IS AN AMERICAN FIRST, INDIAN SECOND.Stop being proud of an "INDIANS" achievement. The guys first comments on winning was "I am a true blooded Louisiana boy..(somethin like that)". I dont have anything against him,but I feel sorry for all of you who see his success as "India shining".
Do you know anything about the plight of Mississipi workers(indians)?? Do you know what Bobby Jindal said about this issue?? - NOTHING, he has so far hasnt done anything positive for us INDIANS...and you speak his name as if he is your GOD.
Tell you what oldman, I think your a loner, and this board and me are the ONLY type of conversation of any sort you must have had with another human.
GET A LIFE... GET A GOOD PAIR OF READING GLASSES.
Most importantly, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
You obviously dont understand our scenario(I speak for INDIANS) and your apparent knowledge is only a waste to this post..

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

Stereotyping can exist anywhere.I can stereotype ppl of different cultures or even ppl from a particular work group and so on..It necessarily doesnt insinuate hatred toward that culture/workgropu etc.

Nope, stereotyping is the first step to establish hatred. Raphael Lemkin coins stereotyping as the third step towards genocide.

You have no right to post in this topic because you pretty obviously dont know anything about India. I have met thouasands of ppl all across the country of different cultures/regions, and I am obviously more apt at making these comments than you.
What you call is Racism, is called stereotyping in INDIA, and Yes, there is a major difference between the two.You have absolutely no knowledge about our country to make comments like that.My statements MAYBE branded as Racist in the US, but NOT IN INDIA, NOT IN INDIA.As I said before I speak for all the Indians(LIVING HERE) and uninitiated NRIs like you can keep their bloody mouth shut.

Racism is racism anywhere in the world. Whether it's racists like you ranting against Punjabis, or racist Englishmen rewriting their colonial history to make themselves look good, or racist Malaysians with their "Ketuanan Melayu". Racism is racism anywhere in the world.

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

"Racism is racism anywhere in the world. "
No it isnt.. You are STUPID.. Get some Help!!

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

"Racist Englishmen rewriting their colonial history to make themselves look good, or racist Malaysians with their "Ketuanan Melayu"

Do I sense some serious stereotyping there??
Answer is YES.
If you can stereotype ppl of other countries, you can stereotype people of your own country too..
Welcome oldman, welcome to the club. I suppose you are a true Indian after all.

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

Do I sense some serious stereotyping there??

It's no stereotype. Ask any Irishman or Scotsman and he'll tell you that racism dominates English society to the point that it's defines them. There is ample evidence of systemic racism by the English everywhere, as well as their propensity to kill people whom they consider racially inferior to them, from J.Bagh in India to the oppression and murder of the Irish people. It plainly follows that racism is as English as "les rosbifs".

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

So does that mean each and every Britisher deserves our hatred and scorn???
What bout the interracial couples in UK??Do they feel the same way as you generalised them??

I have friends living in the UK, living with britishers, their bonding is so strong that they even get invited to their homes for parties and all...Where does that leave your "generalization" about English???
I am not fond of English either, I think they suffer from an arrogant superiority complex....and what you mention above is a mere generalisation, you cant be too sure about each and every britisher(like in case of punjabis for that matter)
So ur generalisation safely falls in the catagory of Stereotyping.

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

So does that mean each and every Britisher deserves our hatred and scorn???

Once again, you conflate "Britisher" with "English". of course all British aren't racist hatemongering ethnocentrists. The ENGLISH, however, are. I have yet to meet an Englishman who isn't. Show me a good, kind and humble Britisher and he'll probably be a Scotsman or Irishman.

And yes, every Englishman deserves our scorn. Or, at least, our caution. If we don't watch them carefully, they'll kill us someday. Given their culture of hatred and bigotry, I would suspect every Englishman just as every Jew would suspect a German.

What bout the interracial couples in UK

The English regard them as "race traitors". To them, interracial couples represent a perceived "mongrelization" of the "purity" of Anglo-Saxon blood. Interracial couples in the UK live in constant fear of their lives.

So ur generalisation safely falls in the catagory of Stereotyping.

For any other ethnic group you'd have a point. For the ENGLISH, however, it's a simple fact. English are normatively, culturally, racist. It forms the very basis of their society.

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

I might agree with you considering I am not personally fond of the English.
But as for the rest of India(or Indians).. you still suck arse..
Adios

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] thenerdwithin 17 years ago

You guys are both racists if you generalize about the English like that. I probably know many more English than either of you, and two of my closest friends are English. None of the English I know are racist at all, so there ends your stupid generalizations. About Hariseldon, he's a crank. Always turns up and pokes his nose into something about which he has no idea. States baseless comments and writes them as if they're so well researched (by giving sidelines about jews and nazis etc, which make you think, *beep* this guy knows a lot). He's got a habit of misquoting and quoting people out of context, which is one of the worst things you can do here, and is listed as one of the causes for kicking-out from this site.

I don't hate Punjabis at all. They're good people, and very very helpful. I just don't like their stupid pop music and their ethnocentricism. I like Bongs too, as well as English, Pakistanis etc etc, i.e. any race you can think of.

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

About Hariseldon, he's a crank. Always turns up and pokes his nose into something about which he has no idea. States baseless comments and writes them as if they're so well researched (by giving sidelines about jews and nazis etc, which make you think, *beep* this guy knows a lot). He's got a habit of misquoting and quoting people out of context, which is one of the worst things you can do here, and is listed as one of the causes for kicking-out from this site.

Now that's what I call cognitive dissonance. Reply to legitimate arguments with ad-hominem and false comparisons. bravo, how very English of you. Those buggers invented the art.

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Electric_Sheep 17 years ago

The whole of India seems to be obsessed with Punjabi food, culture, song, dance...dont blame the punjabis for it. And this "small" state has protected for the rest of India for over 600 years, the borders which would have otherwise meant entire N India being pakistan today?

If you have an issue, see a psychologist or something or just switch off the TV. And besides...Punjabis identify themselves more as Indians than someone especially from Assam or Kerela does! :D

Cheers!

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[–] getemthatsright 17 years ago

I don't get this. Im not racist against any punjabi or sikhs as I have many sikh and punjabi in my family. But Seriously why do the Sikhs think that they were the ones that stopped the Mughal and Arabic Invasion?

its not true the maratha empire which were Hindu from Maharashtra and Gujarat fought the Islam invasion off for over 800year+ so did the Rajeshthani (hindu) with Ghurkha Army and none of them were Punjabi.

The only reason why the Sikh empire came to power was because the Maratha killed 90% of the islamic invasion before the Sikh army was formed. Sikh empire held 40million Sq acres of land while the Maratha empire held 250million square acres.

If any one reads Indus History they will know this but the Sikhs just brush this off like it did not happen and they were the sole saviours of the Hindus. While if you also search in the moghal archives it is said that Genghis Khan was killed by a Hindu in the Maratha army DADA JASHRAJ of Multan Fort.

Sikhs also claim they did not want to expand but this is also untrue because they conquered from Punjab and north Punjab (pakistan) to Nepal. Of course they didn't convert any one there. As for the Khyber pass sure Sikh army tried there but the Maratha empire tried before the Sikh army got there. You will see more Hindus in Afghanistan today then Sikhs hence the terminology of Afgani's today calling Hindu, Sikhs and Buddhists in Afganistan Hindus to this day. They pray in the Same Temple.

It pisses me off when people re write history to make them look good for no reason what so ever. Sikhs rant on about there conquest but when it comes to acknowledging what Hindus have done for them all they get is stupid Idol/cow worshipers jokes.

Sikh Army:
10% HINDU
10% Sikh
80% Muslim

Maratha Army:
85% Hindu
15% Muslim
0% SIKHS

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

Sikh Army:
10% HINDU
10% Sikh
80% Muslim

Eh? What now? There were no Muslims in the Sikh army. Else it wouldn't be a "Sikh" army, would it? Sikhism is a religion. There can be no "Muslim" Sikhs, just like there can be no "Christian Buddhists".

There were Hindus in the Sikh army (particularly the Kashmiri Pandits under Sikh general Ranjit Singh) but they functioned primarily as strategic advisors rather than combatants.

I think you're confusing Sikh with Rajput. There were Muslim Rajputs in the Rajput Army. Rajput is an ethnicity, so there are both Hindu and Muslim Rajputs.

Maratha Army:
85% Hindu
15% Muslim
0% SIKHS

I'll have to look this up properly, but I seem to remember a blurb written by John Keay (a famous historian) that Marathas would recruit Sikh mercenaries into their armies, particularly during the last of the great Panipat battles.

But yes, the Maratha armies were predominantly Hindu, although there were liberal numbers of non-fanatic Muslims as well. In fact, the Islamic fanatic Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb had a fatwa passed by his imams that any Muslim who joined the Maratha army would automatically be declared an apostate of Islam and subjected to the death penalty if caught. Nonetheless, Maratha Muslims preferred to join the Maratha Army because the Maratha Emperor Shivaji had a good relationship with the local Islamic clergy (he had a Sufi Muslim "pir" for an advisor).

Get your facts straight please.

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] getemthatsright 17 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Empire#Sikh_Empire_.28Unification.29_.281801-1849.29

The religious population demography of the Sikh Empire was Muslim (80%), Hindu (10%) and Sikh (10%)[5]. The once strong empire was severely weakened after the death of Maharaja Ranjit Singh in 1839. The Empire ended, with the British Empire annexing its territory in 1849, after the Second Anglo-Sikh War.

The 80% of the muslim pop of the Sikh empire were Hindu to Muslim converts. They were told by muslim rullers that if they convert they will be treated as equals but once they converted they were treated as low caste muslims. Hence there loyalty to Sikhs and eventualy turned Sikh, Brahmin Hindu fanatics did not allow them back this is what i hate about the caste system. Sikhs abolished caste system which was good untill recently Sikhs have decided to be either Jatt, Labana, Gurusikh etc...

When the brits came and invaded India the Maratha and Sikh Empire held there own but all Sikhs know this when M Ranjit Singh died his desendents sold the Sikhs out to the british as slaves hence the Sikh army being involved in W1 and W2. The Rajesthanis did the same with Gurkhas The Gujaratis did the same gave there ppl up as slaves to work in the Africa suger fields. So did the Tamils and Marathas which were sent to Fiji and West Indies.

When the british left India they returned all land back to the people and since they stole most of the land from the Maratha they felt it right to give it back to the people which it was stolen from. Hence the Maratha people voted for democrocy and getting rid of royal families. Rajesthani, Punajabis and Gujaratis lost there Kingdoms because majority of the land in the country belonged to the Maratha and now they had the final say of the entire country.

So in final Sikhs were not the only saviours of Hindus if this was true then the British empire would have left the country to the Sikhs or the Muslims if they had the finial outcome of India's history.

Sikhs did do a great lot for the people of India no doubt about this but to say it was all Sikhs work it secured Indias future and Hinduism as religion is complete bs. If hindus did not start gorila warefare against Islam 800years priyor to Guru Nanaks brith the Sikh empire would have been fighting a loosing battle because every one would have been an arogant muslim and would not let any other religious group continue.

what pisses me off is that my ancestors come from a long line of noble kshatriya who have bleed for India in the past and still do to this day are pushed aside because some one decided to give all the credit to the Sikhs.

I know the history of India because it runs through my blood.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

@getemthatsright
Thats one hell of a history lesson(as well your previous post)

"what pisses me off is that my ancestors come from a long line of noble kshatriya who have bleed for India in the past and still do to this day are pushed aside because some one decided to give all the credit to the Sikhs"
I really dont think thats the scenario around brother.
Khatriyas(or Rajputs) are still looked up with respect.
As for Sikhs, they have unfortunately fallen pray to "sardar jokes" and other sardars-are-dumb kinda potrait painted by the popular media.

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] hariseldon99 17 years ago

The whole of India seems to be obsessed with Punjabi food, culture, song, dance...dont blame the punjabis for it. And this "small" state has protected for the rest of India for over 600 years, the borders which would have otherwise meant entire N India being pakistan today?

If you have an issue, see a psychologist or something or just switch off the TV. And besides...Punjabis identify themselves more as Indians than someone especially from Assam or Kerela does! :D

Heck that's exactly what I've been saying. All this anti-Punjabi racism is stupid bollox. Plus, the green revolution in Punjab means that they pretty much feed half of North India.

Punjab is the closest thing to paradise we've got nowadays. Chandigarh is a fantastic city. Cleaner and better infrastructure than Amsterdam, even.

I haven't met an unpatriotic Punjabi in Punjab yet (a few nutty Khalistanis in Canada moan about once in a while, but people in Punjab find them as offensive as anybody, just read Khushwant Singh's writings on the topic). Hell during my college days I was a genuine Marxist *beep* (I'm not one anymore, I became a neoconservative in 2003) and hated India like any good Communist does. I used to get into fights with Punjabis all the time because they were patriotic and didn't appreciate my (back then) anti-India views.

Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth.

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[–] punditz 17 years ago

@hari dada -

"All this anti-Punjabi racism is stupid bollox"
It aint racism boy.

"Punjab is the closest thing to paradise we've got nowadays"
Not only this statement extremely exaggerated its also gives an insight into the uninformed poster(thats you seldon), sitting on his laptop far away from his motherland.
Seriously seldon, when was the last time you were in India??
Dont go about making statements that you dont know much about.

"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. "

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ShadowsGathered 17 years ago

Wow, was anyone hurt during Hurricane Hariseldon-Punditz when it flew through here?

...Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become a monster...

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[–] WildChild30793 17 years ago

India is a really diverse country so its more of an identity thing to be Punjabi or Gujrati than just Indian

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[–] svcreddy_91 16 years ago

South India is just as diverse. Too bad it's never in the spotlight :(

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[–] parihav 16 years ago

Not to worry, Someday it will be. And that will be a great day indeed :)

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[–] Aj_Cheema 16 years ago

there's something known as the aryan-dravidian divide.
the north indians/aryans are culturally and ethnically different form the south indians/dravidians.
long story...
COGITO ERGO SUM.

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[–] hari_seldon99 16 years ago

the north indians/aryans are culturally and ethnically different form the south indians/dravidians.

There is some truth to that, but the differences aren't as collossal as partisan politicians claim.

Not all north Indians are Aryans though, and not all South Indians are "Dravidian". These distinctions were more pronounced 5000 years ago, much less so nowadays.

There has been a fair amount of intermarriage/interbreeding over the centuries. The Oriya in Orissa, for instance, incorporate elements of both ethnicities.

The racial ethnography of India is very very complex and still not fully understood. It would be unwise to reduce it to a few soundbites as you did.

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[–] svcreddy_91 16 years ago

yeah, i've seen some north indians who looked more "dravidian" than some south indians. i think the politicians are exaggerating everything.

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[–] Miss_Weasley_Potter 16 years ago

Hey, hey, hey. First of all, what is this talk about Punjabis being obssesed with themselves? Everybody shows what they know best and obviously, Punjabis would know themselves best so they would automotically do that.

Now, I never questioned why a Punjabi was shown in this movie but since you have, I think the simple reason is that there are a lot of Punjabis living in UK. Yes, so are Gujarati but once again, Chadha is Punjabi so she would know the typical jokes, the cliches, the silly little prejudices et al. It's just natural.

Why do you have to make sucha big deal out of this? I mean, let's face it, Punjabis are pretty fun loving! And I am not a Punjabi in case you think I am being..what the word? 'regionalist'.

It's sad that it's people like you who keep going on about Punjab, Gujarat, Bihar, Maharashtra. What is the big deal? Now, next thing you will complain about is, why is the industry always shown to have so many Punjabis in it? Take Fashion for example where so many of the characters were Punajbis.

I could question, why are the security guards always shown to be Nepalis? And the poor guys, Biharis?

It's just one of those generalisiation type of thing.

That is it.

And as for the Aryan-Dravadian thing, phew, it happen millions of years ago, no point in fighting about that.

If you are afraid of losing, then you daren't win. - Bjorn Borg

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