MovieChat Forums > The Rookie (2002) Discussion > Fact - Morris was a lousy big league pit...

Fact - Morris was a lousy big league pitcher



Go here to see his career stats.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/morrija03.shtml

Pitched just 15 innings in his major league "career" and no decisions or saves and an era of 4.80.

The movie did however get his initial MLB appearance right. Pitched to just one batter and struck him out. That's where the movie ended.

Was the number 4 pick in the first round of the 1983 draft so when 19, he really was a good prospect.

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He also sounds like a bit of a jerk.

After seeing this movie, I read his autobiography. It's been a while so I don't remember specific details, but I really didn't like Jimmy Morris at all after reading the book.

I'd much rather see Dennis Quaid in a pair of Wranglers.

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Was the number 4 pick in the first round of the 1983 draft so when 19, he really was a good prospect.
Actually he was drafted in the 1st round of the Secondary Phase draft held in January. If you look at the drafts over the years for the Secondary Phase, very few players made it to the major leagues at all and only a handful had lengthy careers. So seeing that he was a 1st round draft pick makes it appear he was a top prospect, but if he had entered the June draft he would have been drafted quite a bit lower (maybe in the 8th to 10th round range I'm guessing - still not bad, but not a top prospect).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/index.cgi?round=&year_ID=1983&draft_type=jansec

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Facts: the guy had an ERA+ of 103 and a career WHIP just over league average. His career would better be described as brief or mediocre, but not lousy due to the fact that he was a usefull pitcher because, as far as situational lefties or LOOGY's go, he held left handed hitters to a .136 batting average, which is exactly what you want out of that type of pitcher.

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He had had 3 arm surgeries. There was NO WAY he should have been able to pitch like he did. This isn't a story about a guy who suddenly went on to a Nolan Ryan career. Just a guy who got a moment in the sun when it was thought that that would be impossible at his age.

Side note: ERA for a relief pitcher can be very deceptive when they make as few appearances as Morris did. A starter can get his ERA down with a couple of good games with outings of 7/8 innings or so. Short relievers take weeks to reach those same innings totals.

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I'm late here but your side note is definitely spot on. ERA is determined by runs earned per 9 innings pitched. Jimmy was a situation pitcher, only pitching an inning at most, usually less, so having an ERA near 5.0 isn't horrible but it isn't great either.

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It really depends. Compare a reliever who does this over the course of a season

35 G, 39 IP, 0 runs allowed.
5 G, 1 IP, 20 runs allowed

with a reliever who pitches 40 innings in 40 games, allowing a single run 20 times.

Both pitches have the same mediocre relief ERA, 4.50. But pitcher 1 is far more valuable, because he shuts down the opposition completely almost 90% of the time. No matter how bad his blow ups might be, they can only cost you one win at most.

Pitcher 2 is far less useful. He'll blow close leads and tie games on a regular basis or let close games get away. You only use him when you are well ahead, or behind.

A 5.00 ERA is not good by any stretch, but you are entirely correct that it has to be viewed in context.

I don't think you can say much about whether Morris was good MLB pitcher or not as his peculiar circumstances just doesn't give us enough data to make a determination. Reviewing his career numbers, he was extremely effective against left-handed batters, was tattooed by right-handers, had a good not great strikeout rate and walked far too many. That's a fringe player, guy who might hang around in AAA for a few years, getting called up on occasion to fill in for injury or when the pen gets burned out. Given more time, Morris might well have developed into an effective specialist, but as with 90% of his type, it didn't happen.








"You didn't come into this life just to sit around on a dugout bench, did ya?"

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I don't think what he did in his career is the point of the movie, but that he did make it. How many guys that never got out of the minors would give their left nut to play 15 innings in The Show? I'd give both.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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[deleted]

Congratulations for COMPLETELY missing the entire point of the film. That takes talent.

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You know, this is one of the few times where this reply is logically sound:

Yes Jim Morris didn't have the greatest career, but he did a heck of a lot better than *you* would have. Or just about any other guy off the street... And that's what he basically was, a guy off the street. Hence the inspirational milieu.

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You're correct about the the fact that he did better than 99.999% of people who ever played ball, but he wasn't quite just some guy off the street. He was a prospect in his younger days, but arm injuries derailed his first attempt at The Show. Even getting to A ball is better than 99.99% of people who ever played.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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What's really interesting about his career was how well he did his job (getting lefties out) when it didn't matter, and how much he struggled when it did.

Most of his appearances were in blowouts, the MLB equivalent of garbage time. In those games, lefties were 1 for 17 off of him, with 4 BB and 4 SO. (He faced a lot of righties in these games, inflating his overall numbers.)

He pitched in only 5 meaningful situations:

On April 5th he was brought in with 2 on and 2 out and the Rays up 7-1, and gave up an RBI single to Corey Koskie. The Rays ended up losing 10-7.

On April 20 he was brought in to face Delino DeShields with a man on 1st and nobody out and the Rays down by two. He gave up a single (and was lifted after a sac bunt and IBB).

His career highlight came the next night when he was asked to face the all-lefty top of the order in the 6th inning of a tie game against the Angels. He got Darrin Erstad, walked Adam Kennedy, and fanned Mo Vaughn (and was lifted).

On May 5th he started the 7th against the top of the Red Sox order, the Rays down two; he gave up a single to switch-hitter Jose Offerman, walked Trot Nixon, but got Brian Daubach to hit into a GDP (and was again lifted).

He continued dominating hitters in garbage time, though, so on May 9th, Larry Rothschild sent him in to face Paul O'Neill of the Yankees. In the bottom of the 10th inning of a tie game. With the bases loaded and one out. Maybe not a good idea for a guy who walked a lot of lefties even when they couldn't hit him.

He walked in the winning run on four pitches and never threw another pitch in the bigs.

So, when it mattered, lefties were 2 for 5 off him, with 3 BB and 1 SO. You have to wonder whether that was just a fluke, or a lack of confidence. The difference in OBP allowed in garbage time (.238) versus not (.625) has a 1 in 20 chance of happening at random, given his overall OBP allowed. There have been a lot more than 20 lefty relievers with his sort of career recently, so he may have just been unlucky.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

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So what you're saying, if examined from another perspective, is that in five situations where it mattered, he did the job in two and didn't in three. That's not stellar but it isn't mediocre either.



Vader: I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Tarkin: Enough of this! Vader, release him!

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I think it's easier to argue that he was unlucky than it is to argue that he wasn't good enough. But baseball teams are often not in the position of giving guys the benefit of that doubt. If they had a kid in AAA whom they thought could do the same job, they would move on without looking back. And so they did.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

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Actually, he got off to a great start, retiring 9 of the first 10 batters he faced, only giving up his first hit on the 11th. He must have thought "what is all this fuss about in the Major Leagues?" at this point.

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Ndever mind the truth, it was a heartwarming story.

Its that man again!!

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